which fruit contains all essential amino acids?

[Zack]

Can someone please tell me a toxin produced by boiling, or steaming? Not baking/frying/broiling.

[DV]

Flanders,

 

I appreciate that you put a lot of time into your posts, but it sometimes seems to me that you are more interested in dissecting others' post than truly sharing information. And I don't know what kind of scientist you are, but if you have so little faith in the knowlege that can be gained by studies and the scientific process, well maybe it's time for a new career.

 

If you are going to dissect my posts then please get it right. I never said that "telling someone to eat as much raw food as possible" was dangerous advice. Rather, my original post stated:

 

"Food cravings are NOT generally based on your body's reaction to low levels of certain nutrients. It would be great if this were true but it is not. And I know there are some of you who disagree but you do a true disservice to those who visit this forum and are easily swayed."

 

And I stand by the above quote.

[flanders77]

Flanders,

I appreciate that you put a lot of time into your posts, but it sometimes seems to me that you are more interested in dissecting others' post than truly sharing information. And I don't know what kind of scientist you are, but if you have so little faith in the knowlege that can be gained by studies and the scientific process, well maybe it's time for a new career.

Since I really do not want to take this debate to a personal level (you are ascientist also, right ):

1. I am a sports scientist and worked at a university for five years. My main area of work were epidiological studies and the analysis of data. I do not emphasize this in every post I make because IMO arguments are what counts more than some kind of (academic) degree.

2. More than once I explicitly stated that I have little or no faith in studies conducted on nutrition and especially the resulting advices given by so-called experts because of certain reasons I will not repeat here again. I did not speak about science as a whole. Especially for basic knowledge about physiology science has abundant merits.

 

If you are going to dissect my posts then please get it right. I never said that "telling someone to eat as much raw food as possible" was dangerous advice. Rather, my original post stated:

"Food cravings are NOT generally based on your body's reaction to low levels of certain nutrients. It would be great if this were true but it is not. And I know there are some of you who disagree but you do a true disservice to those who visit this forum and are easily swayed."

And I stand by the above quote.

What I wanted to say was: Rawfood-members usually do give the advice I descriped above. We do not tell anybody just to give in to any craving or not to do any bloodtests etc. This would be dangerous. Instead we tell those members asking for advice that they should try to learn to listen to your body. If an advanced member like topher who already has a lot of experience concerning rawfood asks for advice and I ask him to tell me what exactly he is craving this is absolutely appropriate IMO.

Btw: I did not state that you said "telling someone to eat as much raw food as possible" was dangerous advice". So if you want to criticise me, please read carefully.

 

Back to the debate:

As I stated before it is important to learn to listen to your bodies needs IMO. A raw vegan diet can help you a lot in this process.

I also believe that modern nutritional science can only help you very little to develope healthy eating habits a.o. because of its reductional character, too little objectivity, obvious deceit or wrong presumption etc.

@DV:

My comment that the more knowledge was gained by science the worse our diet became was not answered at all.

My subtle hint that there is no such thing as a scientific proof was ignored.

My comment on what science right now understands and from what kind of basis it gives its advices therefor was ignored, too.

Off-topic:

IMO saying other members are "very passionate" and "well-meaning" but their advice may be dangerous and at the same time emphazising again and again your "scientific" background does not really contribute to the debate going on. It only serves to discredit others and let yourself appear in a better light (Sorry for getting personal ).

[veggieprincess]

I love doing google searches. Found these:

 

http://www.amigo-juice.net/products.htm

 

from above website:

 

AMINO ACIDS; the Açai berry contains an almost perfect essential amino acid complex. This is vital for proper muscle contraction and regeneration, and for endurance, strength, sustained energy and muscle development. NATURAL VITAMIN E; to protect against aging.

 

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/112608834/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

 

Amino acid pattern of the Egyptian apricot fruits

piece of the article said that in an analysis 19 amino acids were found in this particular fruit.

 

 

Whether or not these fruits are available where we live is another matter, huh?

[Jessifly]

It may be bold but I encourage anyone and everyone no matter their level of "traditional" or non-traditional education to post any and all opinions, advice, suggestions whether it be from soft-sources, hard-sources or personal experience.. especially if they are passionate. Let the readers make the decision of what to take and what to leave... this is after all a forum of a rainbow of different people with different backgrounds and I believe that is what a forum is for. Great ideas come from everywhere. Sure there might be misinformation, but it is the readers responsibility to realize that and make their own determinations. It should be basic knowledge that there is misinformation ALL over the internet, so there is absolutely no need for any impassioned person here keep their possibly brilliant insight to themself as a matter of "responsibility".

 

“It is not the brains that matter most, but that which guides them -- the character, the heart, generous qualities, progressive ideas.”

~ Fyodor Dostoyevsky

 

"I don't think there's a book that's ever been written, or will be, that could give you the best insight into what you should be eating. You're an expert on what your body needs to perform at its best. Be your own nutritionist; discover what foods make your body purr."

~Ani Phyo

[flanders77]

@Jessyfly: I cannot say how much I second your words!

[health freak]

well, I think too, it's important for everyone to share their experiences 'cause we can all learn from them. Personally, i get more and more inspired by raw vegans who are passionate as you say. If one sees benefit for himself through their diet, it's natural to be passionate about it. I'm passionate about vegan nutrition as it helped me overcome my very very serious health problems i had in the past. At that time, modern science made me only worse. So, now, yes, i do recommend quitting all meat/dairy/fried food to those who suffer from the same illnesses i did. What choices they might make, it's up to them. But at least, this way a different perspective will be heard. It's time to start criticizing ALL things we take for granted especially when modern science, nutrition, and conventional medicine is concerned. If we consider the huge economical interests that hide behind modern science it's only logical to start believing that tuning into our body's real needs, is what will make us live healthy. But to develop this property (to really listen to your body) you first need to be where Flanders is. Otherwise we cannot do it. Only if we try it we'll know.

 

 

Raw vegans of the forum keep inspiring us, weak n' faint-hearted as we are, for a better life

[flanders77]

But to develop this property (to really listen to your body) you first need to be where Flanders is. Otherwise we cannot do it. Only if we try it we'll know.

Raw vegans of the forum keep inspiring us, weak n' faint-hearted as we are, for a better life

You really don't need to be in Muenster/Germany if you want to learn to listen to your bodies needs.

But seriously: Please do not put me on a podium. I am on a journey like many other members and I am learning new things about myself everyday. I like sharing what I believe and help others on their journey.

I am not a 100% raw-vegan because I still eat some cooked food due to social reasons (family-life).

There are others (especially Bigbwii) who are far more competent than me because they have longer and more intense experience with rawfood.

[health freak]

I understand. i just mentioned you as the first example that popped in my mind. I never said that someone is perfect or the ideal. I'm not a very old member of the forum so i don't know everybody and what they eat.

 

Anyways, i thank all the guys who inspire me with their experiences and knowledge as i try to eat abit healthier every day.

Edited September 25, 2007 by health freak

[Bigbwii]

Hooray for Jessifly, well said gerlfren!!!!

 

I gotta admit I've stopped posting here as much because of various negative attitudes that have been slowly creeping in lately and the other raw foodist that were here to begin with have all gone too, you try to help someone with a raw question then you get some non-raw person quoting science nutrition and casting doubt on the validity of your advice based on what mainstream science has taught them, then a debate starts like this one, I'm not one for debates because I can only share what I feel is true to me, so for me it's really not up for debate but your more than welcome to take my advice or discard it, plus it just seems that no matter what you say some people will never be happy or accepting of your raw experiences and will try to counter act everything you say with science and yes I can see why some people might do this but the thing is that as raw foodists we need our own section so we can escape all of the this and communicate with like minded individuals instead of spending it defending our experience, as for most people it's probably the one place that they can actually discuss our raw issues without judgement because our experiences will often go against all of what mainstream science stands for, other wise it just becomes a waste of time sharing your "personal" journey/advice.

 

I'm really not into defending my interlect so I just don't post here anymore but I know for a fact that the raw lifestyle has been very successful for many people, myself included, yes in the begining it was hell on earth and I can relate to why it seems so unhealthy to the untrained eye because I made many mistakes and many a doctor would have mistaken my detox symptoms for illness, but think about it, if they were really illnesses I would not be here today to say otherwise, which is why I always tell people to think about what they are getting into first because the transitioning period is no joke and misunderstandings often arise because many people never get past this stage so they think that the transioning aches, pains and symptoms are what the raw lifestyle is all about, I've also never told anyone here that they should go raw and I never will, all I've done here is shared my life and posted information that may be useful to others that have my same interest in the raw lifestyle and I don't think anybody here has told anyone else to go raw either.

 

Unfortunatly a section of the raw movement is in a sad state and sadly it's that section that gets all the attention because the truth is that many people are not transitioning in the correct manner which is leading to continued health problems and health issues, it's not the lifestyle as a whole, it's the people, people always say "well were's the proof that going raw is good for you, where's the studies" well I've posted many studies here and on my forum in the past but just like anything there's plenty on the internet good and bad and you can find anything eventually to prove your point/argument but I've been blessed to deal with and see with my own eyes people that have been completely healed by going raw and getting active and there's many other examples that you can find all over the world but it all depends on what you want to focus on, do you want to focus on the positive side when people transition to the raw lifestyle correctly and get the support they need or on the negative side when people don't transition correctly and don't get the support they need and mistake symptoms of detox that society says is illness for actually illness and quit, well I've noticed that most people want to listen to the negative person trashing the raw lifestyle because they messed up, it's like the saying goes, "the wheel that sqeeks the loudest gets the oil" and the positive examples that are brave enough to put themselves out there just get written off as flukes or freaks of nature, I'm not bashing anybody here but I've just seen it so many times over the years and I've seen the frustrations from both raw and non-raw vegans when they clash.

 

To me it's all pointless debating this issue because none of us are really going to be satisfied with any info that goes against what we believe anyway, for me it's all about living and letting live, after all how can you tell someone that has come from feeling sick and depressed on cooked foods to being rejuvanated and in the best shape ever on raw foods that rawfoods is bad for them because science says so.....what reaction do you think your gonna get?

 

For me personaly as Seand stated in another post, I've had it both ways and raw is the way to go for me without a doubt and if cooked food is the way to go for you then that's cool too, it's really no skin off my nose because I'm not you and you are not me so to argue/debate about it makes no sense to me at all, anyway I'm not looking for a fight I'm just giving my $10 worth to the situation.

 

I hope everyone can live and let live and get over all of this crap....

 

Be good.

 

Edited September 24, 2007 by Bigbwii

[health freak]

bigbiwii, these are all very well put. I have tried to go raw in July and August but i failed. My old pains from my knee joint and my lower back that i had from the times i was an omni, made their appearance again.

I kinda panicked and when i started eating some cooked food again, the pain vanished. I honestly believe that going raw is the best for our body but how long does this transition period last? When these pains fade? Which is the right way to go raw? I feel like i'm eternally stuck in this painful trasition period. My vegan mother tried it too, but she had pains in her stomach and got scared and put off by it...

[Bigbwii]

bigbiwii, these are all very well put. I have tried to go raw in July and August but i failed. My old pains from my knee joint and my lower back that i had from the times i was an omni, made their appearance again.

I kinda panicked and when i started eating some cooked food again, the pain vanished. I honestly believe that going raw is the best for our body but how long does this transition period last? When these pains fade? Which is the right way to go raw? I feel like i'm eternally stuck in this painful trasition period. My vegan mother tried it too, but she had pains in her stomach and got scared and put off by it...

 

If you look back and read all my post you'll see that I've always said that the transitioning period is personal to each individual based on our parents past eating and lifestyle habits and your past lifestyle and eating habits and I would have to see you and work with you on a one to one basis to really know what's going on and get you through it, there's no cookie cutter way to transition, when I was transitioning I got all kinds of aches and pains in all kinds of places at all different stages of my transitioning some aches were scary and went unexplained and some were not but they were all results of my body getting rid of the toxins, waste, etc lodged/stored in my joints, bones and muscles, etc, infact I had one hilarious side effect of going back to cooked food that I can't share here that would scare the crap out of anybody but it was just my bodies way of coping with the toxicity overload that was in my system at that time, your aches and pains stopped when you ate cooked food because you stopped the detox process by eating cooked food and not because cooked food saved you from harm, transitioning is a scary process to someone that is not experienced in the raw lifestyle or has no raw support system because crazy things happen, especially when you start listening to other non-raw peoples opinions and alot of people get scared and quit then go back to what they know....cooked food!

 

All the time I was transitioning I never once felt unsafe even when the crazy stuff was going on and I kept on trucking when many would have called it quits, now I've cleaned sufficiantly enough the aches and pains have gone and everything is new and improved, back in the day when I used to slip up on cooked food all my aches and pains would come back then go away when I went raw and cleaned out again but things had to get worse before they got better and that's what a lot of people don't get, because when you first go raw all those toxins and debris are in your system and your body is using up all it's energy to do what it's supposed to be doing, cleansing you, that's why you feel so bad and depending on the condition of your organs and your past history it could take several years to detox enough for you to start to feel good again, there's no magic pill and no person knows the secrets to an easy detox, the bottom line is that you gotta allow your body to cleanse itself, you may even need to give it some help if your organs are not in good condition.

 

Yes sadly that's how a lot of people transitioning to the raw diet feel, the right way to do this is to work towards going 100% raw...PERIOD, stay away from anything that is processed or unnatural.

 

Hope that helped man.

 

[health freak]

Thanks alot for the useful info It's true that before i have become a vegan my lifestyle was very unhealthy. I was obese, smoker, i drunk too much of alcohol and i ate only fried food, meat and huge amounts of dairy. When i got sick in my joints and lower back after unsuccessful drug-"therapies" i met my vegan doctor and went vegan quitting smokin, caffeine, alcohol, carbonated drinks, white sugar, Anything fried etc etc. Now, at the age of 29 i'm a four year vegan and i try to stick to this diet hoping to someday manage to go raw. My doctor said the more raw i eat, the better for me.

 

Thanks again for your advice. it seems that one really needs to have some guts to go raw....

[Bigbwii]

Thanks alot for the useful info It's true that before i have become a vegan my lifestyle was very unhealthy. I was obese, smoker, i drunk too much of alcohol and i ate only fried food, meat and huge amounts of dairy. When i got sick in my joints and lower back after unsuccessful drug-"therapies" i met my vegan doctor and went vegan quitting smokin, caffeine, alcohol, carbonated drinks, white sugar, Anything fried etc etc. Now, at the age of 29 i'm a four year vegan and i try to stick to this diet hoping to someday manage to go raw. My doctor said the more raw i eat, the better for me.

 

Thanks again for your advice. it seems that one really needs to have some guts to go raw....

Yeah, going raw is a total body over haul and can be pretty hardcore if you want to be successful at it, especially if like me and you, you lived unhealthy before.

 

[seand]

infact I had one hilarious side effect of going back to cooked food that I can't share here that would scare the crap out of anybody

 

you tease! now you gotta share!

[Bigbwii]

infact I had one hilarious side effect of going back to cooked food that I can't share here that would scare the crap out of anybody

 

you tease! now you gotta share!

 

Ha,ha never....you'd hurt yourself laughing

 

And I don't wanna hurt you....

[flanders77]

@Bigbwii: Thanks for posting! I think that this discussion was actually kind of helpful because many things were said that one could only read between the lines before. Concerning the raw-section: IMO when someone posts there looking for advice the non-rawfoodists should not start debates in that topic. But when someone asks for nutritional advice in another section of the board raw-members who give advice should not complain if someone criticises what they say.

I really do not have the feeling that there is an anti-raw-attitude in this forum. In contrary I believe many non-raw members think that it eating lots of raw fruits and vegetables is very healthy.

 

@health freak: IMO it maybe wise to start the transition with a fast which gives the body the possiblity to concentrate on healing and therefor makes the detox more intense but also more quickly. Afterwards start with easy to digest fruit like melons or oranges and then add more and more rawfood to your diet.

[health freak]

 

@health freak: IMO it maybe wise to start the transition with a fast which gives the body the possiblity to concentrate on healing and therefor makes the detox more intense but also more quickly. Afterwards start with easy to digest fruit like melons or oranges and then add more and more rawfood to your diet.

 

 

I'll try and give it a shot. Thanks

[Bigbwii]

@Bigbwii: Thanks for posting! I think that this discussion was actually kind of helpful because many things were said that one could only read between the lines before. Concerning the raw-section: IMO when someone posts there looking for advice the non-rawfoodists should not start debates in that topic. But when someone asks for nutritional advice in another section of the board raw-members who give advice should not complain if someone criticises what they say.

I really do not have the feeling that there is an anti-raw-attitude in this forum. In contrary I believe many non-raw members think that it eating lots of raw fruits and vegetables is very healthy.

 

@health freak: IMO it maybe wise to start the transition with a fast which gives the body the possiblity to concentrate on healing and therefor makes the detox more intense but also more quickly. Afterwards start with easy to digest fruit like melons or oranges and then add more and more rawfood to your diet.

 

Flanders77, how you doing man, I totally agree and I've made that point here before, I think if raw foodists step outside their arena then yeah, they are fair game and open for judgement, I didn't say this board was anti-raw, just that on occasion I recognise the same negative attitudes that non-raw foodists have, I wasn't bashing anybody here or pointing fingers, it's just an observation.

 

Healthfreak, if your past history is as bad as you say it is I would suggest that you go real slow and if you have no issues with raw fruits/veggies, eat/drink as much raw juice and raw produce that you feel comfortable with, have fun with the whole process and don't make it a mission, make it a happy lifestyle, find what raw foods are your favourite and go for it, you don't want to be repeating the cycle by making it a mission impossible and bailing out when all that crap gets stirred up in your system all at once, you also might want to think about doing cleanses of your choice to help get the junk out faster, the trick is to get the toxins and junk out fast!!! then start again!!! it's the junk/toxins that make you feel bad!!!

 

That's just my 10 cents, you can take it or leave it.

[health freak]

thanks. i just need to lose some weight (11 pounds/5kilos) and if i eat as much raw as i like i only get fat. I usually eat alot of olive oil (my father has olive trees) and that seems to be my problem. too much calories. But when i eat raw, in order to feel satisfied i need something oily in my food...

[Bigbwii]

thanks. i just need to lose some weight (11 pounds/5kilos) and if i eat as much raw as i like i only get fat. I usually eat alot of olive oil (my father has olive trees) and that seems to be my problem. too much calories. But when i eat raw, in order to feel satisfied i need something oily in my food...

 

Well, I did say raw fruits and veggies, olive oil is definatly not on the list here...if you eat fat you'll get fat

 

The choice is yours you get out what you put in, figure out what you do like and go from their...take care and good luck

[Odidnetne]

thanks. i just need to lose some weight (11 pounds/5kilos) and if i eat as much raw as i like i only get fat. I usually eat alot of olive oil (my father has olive trees) and that seems to be my problem. too much calories. But when i eat raw, in order to feel satisfied i need something oily in my food...

 

You could just eat the olives whole then, right? That could be a great alternative instead of eating pressed oil. You definitely have a luxury too, getting good olives a lot of places here in the USA is a mission.

[health freak]

[flanders77]

Flanders77, how you doing man, I totally agree and I've made that point here before, I think if raw foodists step outside their arena then yeah, they are fair game and open for judgement, I didn't say this board was anti-raw, just that on occasion I recognise the same negative attitudes that non-raw foodists have, I wasn't bashing anybody here or pointing fingers, it's just an observation.:

Hey Bigman! I am doing alright, thanks. I know you are not pointing fingers and maybe I did not understand you correctly. As usual there is total agreement between us!

P.S. you can be sure we take your 10 cents

[Bigbwii]

Flanders77, how you doing man, I totally agree and I've made that point here before, I think if raw foodists step outside their arena then yeah, they are fair game and open for judgement, I didn't say this board was anti-raw, just that on occasion I recognise the same negative attitudes that non-raw foodists have, I wasn't bashing anybody here or pointing fingers, it's just an observation.:

Hey Bigman! I am doing alright, thanks. I know you are not pointing fingers and maybe I did not understand you correctly. As usual there is total agreement between us!

P.S. you can be sure we take your 10 cents

 

Cool...glad your doing well, keep up the good work man!