Richard Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 It sucks, people blame veganism for any little thing about you. Even though there are millions of people in the world who get ill, are short, are thin, are overweight, have irritable bowel syndrome, are depressed, have chronic fatigue syndrome and so on, if you have any of these things, then very often, people think it must be because of veganism, and it's total bullshit. The fact is that I had a 70% attendance at school due to illness with asthma, colds and irritable bowel syndrome, I was ill a lot. I later became vegan, and I very rarely suffer from those things now. But nobody cares about the facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 doesn't know I'm vegan then they usually blame it on my height and sex (5'10" female). jpeges please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 doesn't know I'm vegan then they usually blame it on my height and sex (5'10" female). jpeges please! wow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 It sucks, people blame veganism for any little thing about you. Even though there are millions of people in the world who get ill, are short, are thin, are overweight, have irritable bowel syndrome, are depressed, have chronic fatigue syndrome and so on, if you have any of these things, then very often, people think it must be because of veganism, and it's total bullshit. The fact is that I had a 70% attendance at school due to illness with asthma, colds and irritable bowel syndrome, I was ill a lot. I later became vegan, and I very rarely suffer from those things now. But nobody cares about the facts I think this is a very important point! Isn't it strange how people behave or react to learning someone is vegan. In many cases, what you said Richard is all too often true......most people (non-vegans) I know will blame anything from illness to hair-loss to veganism. Sure, some could be related in some way, but 90% of the time it's probably not a factor, just a scapegoat. I do realize and admit sometimes they are related, but I also tell people that there is probably a 1 million to 1 ratio of unhealthy non-vegetarians to unhealthy vegetarians. Sure they out number us in general, but there is a lot of blaming going on that is unwarranted. Likewise, and this is important, there is a lot of praise that goes on that is not deserved. For example I was just interviewed by VegNews Magazine for the 3rd time (I'll be in the next issue) and I was very candid and direct, saying that I don't feel like I'm anything special. Why should I get special attention. I eat good foods and I exercise regularly and get results. Why is that so special? Should I get special attention because I eat plants? Should that mean I have some sort of disadvantage or handicap or something? Why should I be getting all this praise and recognition for doing things that make sense and are proven to work? Just another angle to acknowledge, and think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 doesn't know I'm vegan then they usually blame it on my height and sex (5'10" female). jpeges please! wow... Well, it does make sense. I don't have lots of testosterone and you need to put on lots more mass to look muscular as a tall person vs. a short person. Actually, most female bodybuilders are not very tall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 doesn't know I'm vegan then they usually blame it on my height and sex (5'10" female). jpeges please! wow... Well, it does make sense. I don't have lots of testosterone and you need to put on lots more mass to look muscular as a tall person vs. a short person. Actually, most female bodybuilders are not very tall. Nah, this person asked for jpeg's....that's pictures of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Oh......I am such a dork. I didn't know that. I am the worst with pictures. Most pictures of me are on someone else's camera! I should probably work on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Edit: This was a response to Zack, but DV beat me to it. It's OK to ask for photos of a fellow competitive athlete isn't it? A bunch of us post photos here. Sure, it's up to each person whether they want to share their physique photos or not, but I think on a bodybuilding community website, it would be OK to ask to see someone's physique they are talking about. Just my opinion, and of course I'm used to, and very comfortable sharing photos so my opinion may be biased. I Also want to make sure my comments I made a while back aren't overlooked (page 2 of this thread) about how in addition to being "blamed" for things because we're vegan, we also get "praise' because we're vegan and I argue that NEITHER one is necessarily warranted, for a number of reasons, some already posted in my statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 That's her choice I just thought it was tacky the way it was asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Likewise, and this is important, there is a lot of praise that goes on that is not deserved. For example I was just interviewed by VegNews Magazine for the 3rd time (I'll be in the next issue) and I was very candid and direct, saying that I don't feel like I'm anything special. Why should I get special attention. I eat good foods and I exercise regularly and get results. Why is that so special? Should I get special attention because I eat plants? Should that mean I have some sort of disadvantage or handicap or something? Why should I be getting all this praise and recognition for doing things that make sense and are proven to work? Yeah that happens to me from time to time, mainly in the form of "Wow, so you're vegan? That must be really hard, I have a lot of respect for that". That might seem like a harmless compliment in a way, but really it is representative of a total misunderstanding of veganism. It assumes that veganism is really hard / uncomfortable, when really it is no big deal at all, and it shouldn't be seen as some mammoth task, it's just logical. When people first hear about my veganism, they generally start with a list of food, saying "Oh, so you can't eat this, and you can't eat that?". I correct them generally, and say "I can eat anything I want, but I choose not to eat some things because I don't want to". They don't like to hear that, because they like the idea that the word veganism is what I aim for, rather than veganism being a description of what I have chosen to do, if you see what I mean. I would be 'vegan' even without the word, but there is a word for it, so that's what decribes it. In addition, I don't think that veganism in itself is like something amazingly generous or selfless - because once again, that assumes that it is difficult, or that you have to suffer in order to attain it. I always use my not-punching-random-people analogy, which is that if I walk down the street and choose not to punch someone for no reason, that doesn't mean that I saved them from being hit, and doesn't mean I am super generous, it just means I am not completely stupid and mean. Similarly with veganism - if I choose not to pay for an animal to be killed, that doesn't mean I've done anything in particular. Veganism is just a logical way to live, to avoid causing cruelty and exploitation. The choice to be omnivorous / cruel to animals is an unethical action, the choice to not be cruel is a non-action, similar to not punching someone in the face. The only reason vegans stand out as being 'ethical' is because everyone else is so unethical. If everyone went around punching random people in the face, maybe I'd stand out as a non-face-puncher and be praised for that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregX999 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 If everyone went around punching random people in the face, maybe I'd stand out as a non-face-puncher and be praised for that too. ROTFLMAO!!! That is such an awesome way to describe it to the clueless! But then that must be why you're so skinny, you need to punch some more face! Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelbct Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 What do "you all" think of veg*ns who are obviously not fit and who have an unhealthy appearance spouting off about how veg*sm is great for your health as well as weight control? I do not think that a vegan who happens not to possess some exact Western Archetype of male or female beauty needs to refrain from respectfully praising the health benefits of veganism to a non-vegan. If they are ready to hear you, they will. If they are not, they won't, regardless of how fit you may or may not be. Most non-vegans will respond with an instinctually defensive critical reaction to veganism, nomatter what the vegan looks like. A vegan? Must be unhealthy! Or crazy! Otherwise, what I am doing is wrong, and that can't be true, so there must be something wrong with that crazy unhealthy vegan! If they did not respond critically, the result would be an unacceptable cognitive dissonance between their way of life and the information they are receiving about veganism. That said, of course, if you are undeniably unhealthy in appearance, yes, perhaps it is best to stick to focus on other benefits of veganism. But even you, O unfit vegan, probably experience at least SOME health benefits through your vegan-ness, all things held equal- And this is not something to keep silent about- And yes, if you truly care about the animals and veganism, you should try to be as healthy as possible- Both out of compassion for your own self, and in order to serve as a fit ambassador of veganism. I do admit, the fitness and health of the vegans on this board did help convince me veganism could be healthy to both me and to the animals. But you don't have to be perfect to be healthy, and you don't have to be perfect to promote veganism, as long as you promote in a respectful manner. Alrite, enough ranting and raving from me for one day...http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/joelbct/protein.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I see your point, but let's not confuse beauty and perfection with health and fitness. I think the cartoon at the end of your post is a good example of what before_wisdom was referring to (those on the left fit and those on the right not fit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Yes...healthy does not mean you can bench 2x your bodyweight or run a 4 minute mile. If you look reasonably healthy you can justify veganism from a health standpoint in that manner so long are you can rationalize to the person your speaking too that being really muscular doesn't mean you're fit. But if you are overweight and you justify veganism for health reasons you're basically sticking your foot in your mouth. I've run into a few younger women that were interested in veganism but said all the vegan girls they knew were fat. Well they were right. I know of few of the ones they were speaking of. All very outspoken vegans but very overweight and they need to keep their mouths shut about saying its healthier until they get themselves together. Anyhow it took me a few years to convince one of them that they wouldn't get fat...it would be a lot easier if it weren't for the few vegans she knew. Oddly enough the girl I'm speaking of was quite overweight(although she didn't think she was) and is now much lighter and healthier for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 I've noticed that. On smaller people muscle tissue has a lot less joint room to "fill up" before having to move in another direction and "bulge out". There are some tall female body builders, but since most women are about 5 5 most of them are too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 (edited) That's her choice I just thought it was tacky the way it was asked. Hi Zack, that was me, no offense meant. It is all in the tone, which unfortunately gets lost in a near pure text environment. Edited December 4, 2007 by beforewisdom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 No offense taken here, especially since I didn't even know what you were asking. LOL Any members who have met me in person have seen a slim (5'10" and 138-140 pound) woman in her early 40's with a good complexion. Therefore, I look healthy. However, I am currently a good 10 pound lean muscle gain (with some fat loss) away from being able to represent veganism for bodybuilding. For that reason, I don't think I will post any pictures on a bodybuilding site until I'm closer to my goal. I know this is also a "fitness" site but when someone is just viewing photos here I believe they're really looking for proof that vegans can be muscular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelbct Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I think the cartoon at the end of your post is a good example of what before_wisdom was referring to (those on the left fit and those on the right not fit). I think the cartoon illustrates the state of delusion possessed by non-vegans, even when the truth is obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 I've seen that cartoon before, I think it is one of my favorites. I agree with DV if she means that is what it looks like when people in very poor shape ( vegan or non-vegan ) talk about other people's diets or fitness regimes. I think it also illustrates Robert's point about people also assigning false positives to vegans( vegans and non-vegans do this ). If you go vegan, eat well and train well you will look like the family on the left. Probably not if you just go vegan, don't exercise, and eat poorly. I started another thread called "Why Americans Are So Fat", it is a youtube video of a Peter Jennings piece on obesity. Many of the culprit foods were vegetarian and vegan. Just eschewing animal products is not nearly enough to make you look like the people on the left side of the cartoon, particularly if you are starting off looking like the people on the right side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Actually the people on the left don't look that great either. The father's calves are too small for his quads and he has Robert Cheeke foreams with tiny weeny upper arms. As for his son...he needs to grow into his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I got this one rob. Potter! Potter! Potter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 Actually the people on the left don't look that great either. The father's calves are too small for his quads and he has Robert Cheeke foreams Back in the day, they would be called "Popeye Forearms". I'm sure those old cartoons must be on DVD somewhere. Seems like a good thing to watch in bed on a cold February Sunday morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Since Robert wasn't born yet they used to be called Popeye arms but now that he's here its Robert Cheeke foreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 Since Robert wasn't born yet they used to be called Popeye arms but now that he's here its Robert Cheeke foreams. And he eats kale instead of spinach because you can absorb more calicum and instead of dating a chick called Olive Oil he dates a woman named Canola because it has omega 3s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyre Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 My intuition towards eating and consumption is not based on what lifestyle you choose, what you wear, what you eat or how many laps you can or cannot do. It is all about energy. So from my perspective you all look the same way you feel towards someone who is not your direct representation of the Vegan. Both in actuality and demeanor. In my humble opinion there is only the moment and then again that is no-thing. In the way we talk about this and that it can be hard for others to understand you, it is not our differences that hold us apart because we all generally feel good about what we are doing most of the time. Where others see fruits and veggies I see molecules and organic structures of energies in motion, same with meat and rocks. When I observe people acting against this I also wonder why they wish not to see the splendor of it all. In this way I can create an even smaller circle around myself and maybe others I have come into contact with over the years who feel the same. Yet we are all the same. What chains of memory are you following? What is your nature? Either to incite change or wield and woe do you not have some faith in what you are doing? In what way are you not a merchant? If you are selling faith in veganism do not be cross with others of the same faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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