I'm sad to see some of you go - Please Read

[robert]

Hey everyone,

 

I know there have been some lengthy discussions and debates in a variety of topics including sex and politics as of late.

 

I'm saddened to get messages from some members saying they are leaving the forum because of the attitude some members have been portraying within these discussions.

 

I've always supported discussions and debates, but from day one I also set a standard that we would be respectful, mindful and tactful in our actions towards others here on this forum.

 

For years we stood out as a shining example of an online community based on respect for one another.

 

It seems lately we've forgotten that other people have feelings and we've been so focused on "being right" that we've hurt people within our online family. I understand the importance of some of the recent topics of discussion but I ask you to please consider the fundamental aspects this forum was founded on; friendliness, kindness, acceptance, respect, mindfulness and tactfulness.

 

I exhaust myself to instill these character traits here within our community and that is all I can do.

 

Thank you for your understanding and for supporting our mission to build community and progress with our family-friendly approach to making friends and making a positive difference.

 

Please consider your actions and how they might impact someone else.

 

Respectfully,

 

Robert

[JW]

Well stated robert!

I agree 100%

[jonzen]

I am standing with you Robert. If each of us put our hearts in the place of the person we are talking to, our compassion expands, there are no differences so great as to cause separation. Let us work together to be a large and very special family.

 

With Deepest Bows to All,

 

jonzen

[xSkotx]

I am standing with you. For the brief time I ve been around, this seems one of the best fora to visit regularly, and one of the least flame-like. Lets just agree to disagree, from time to time.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[cubby2112]

We do get into some heated debates here and there, but for the most part people seem to be respectful of the opinions of others. This is a great forum and I have stayed here far longer than any other forum. The only vegan forum I have found with a comparable atmosphere is Vegan Fitness. I don't plan on going anywhere.

[hsorlando]

I hope I haven't been posting in any heated debates, like politics. I've been thinking about some of the debates,topics posted here lately, and for the most part I do my best to not take part in them, and just focus on the fitness, vegan aspect of the forum. Which is what I like best about this place! I aplogize to everyone if anyone was ever offended by anything I wrote. I don't think I ever posted anything that would offend, but you never know! I always try to think of others, and I'm glad that Robert brought this into the open. Maybe there's a lesson to be learned here. And don't worry Robert, you won't be getting rid of me, ever!

[SeaSiren]

Can I just say..... ????

 

There are a few people who I miss dearly already. Personally when debates get REALLY Heated I back off, since it's not my thing. So in one instance totally missed "close online" friends in need of back up ... 'cause I wasn't paying attention to the thread any longer (love you T and CG!).

 

Diff of opinion makes the world go 'round. Would be SO very boring otherwise IMO. But then again it's my opinion Which some wouldn't agree.

 

If you choose to be in a heated debate, don't think what you say hasn't influenced others (check the thread read rate), they just may have been afraid to step in. On the other hand, possibly realize not everyone may think like you.

 

Personally like I said I don't get into them, and don't have a lot of time to do so. However, have a "kinship" to the Vegan Community and respect everyone in their own right ... no matter their stance on things.

 

I'm all about the "agree to disagree" sometimes. We all have diff back grounds, and life experiences which formed us to where we are.

 

Hate to see anyone go...... perhaps a "cool off" period and come back to contribute. I haven't seen one person who didn't have something to give to the community ...... OK except for the spam we get on occasion

[gkleinman]

Big blowups like this are actually a mark of a good community. It means people care enough to really invest themselves and be passionate about what their posting about.

 

It's usually the precursor to a forum growing.

 

Some people who leave will come back after a while. Others may not. But the fact that there are threads that are venturing into more difficult territory is actually not a horrible thing for the long haul.

[robert]

Members do come and go, that is the nature of forums. I just take it upon myself to make sure everyone feels welcome, comfortable and appreciated and the best way I know how to do that is to create a respectful environment.

 

I think it is a rare trait, but I really do care about each individual here. Maybe I'm more compassionate than I should be, but people matter to me, and I appreciate each and every member and my hope is that each member is treated well and with respect.

 

I'm happy you're all here and if you have left and are lurking, you're welcome to come back anytime. We'd love to see you again.

 

Even though a few threads have caused some people to scratch their heads, as a whole, we've had a pretty amazing dynamic here within this community and we have an abundance of positive, supportive, fun-loving, motivated people who all contribute to the overall positive vibe this forum carries with it.

 

Thanks for hanging with us.

[DV]

Robert, I know you feel that you have a good reason for keeping us in the dark but it would really be helpful if you told us who left and for what reasons. If members had an example of the types of threads that have gone astray, then we could use that as an guide for when we've crossed a line.

 

I have certainly gotten into some heated debates here and if I have ever caused anyone to leave the forum I would want to know what thread/post did it - so that I would not do so again. (Unless it was one of those spammers that I flamed). So please consider giving us more information and trusting us to apologize for our posts if they have offended.

 

And for those thinking of leaving because of some offensive threads/posts, please reconsider. It is difficult to communicate honestly and effectively on a forum. My husband and I debate almost every day - but in person. I can read his facial expressions and body language which lets me know when to start backing off or try a different way of getting my point across. Most of us do not want to offend or upset anyone on this forum. Leaving without letting us know what we've done to offend is not a mature or positive way of dealing with this because it gives no chance for growth.

[Tarz]

No offence to anyone, but I think it's pathetic if people throw their dummies out of the pram - rather than discuss and debate whatever the issue is - just because they can't handle an opposing viewpoint.

 

I'm not really active on here much these days, but that's because of why CG left, rather than me being unable to accept the fact that people may have an opinion other than my own.

[CollegeB]

Tarz what does "throw their dummies out of the pram" mean? Also I don't think we need to know who left or even specifically why. If someone wants to have unreasonable expectations about how vegans need to think or the ways we should act let them put it up to the forum and deal with it. If they can't then they can go, we'll miss em, but we will move on.

[Odidnetne]

You know damn well I'm sticking around, Rob. I normally keep my head out of conversations like that (unless something does need the occasional moderation), but being able to discuss more things that just not eating meat and milk and what exercises for what bodyparts does show an evolution.

[cubby2112]

I am not offended at all, Robert. I think you have done a great job in keeping this forum friendly. There is obviously something special about this forum in that it has been around for a good while and has not devolved into a pissing match between different factions of members.

 

Vegan forums I believe are especially susceptible to going down a wrong path because we spend so much time talking about moral issues, things that are obviously very personal and important to people. To disagree on someone's moral stance is to many people to insult them directly as a person, their very integrity.

 

You also have trouble with certain vegans who compare their level of veganism the way teenage boys compare penis size, merely through talk and not through any sort of action.

 

It is a difficult job to maintain an online community like this and the only other one I have seen as well maintained is actually a forum where all the people know each other personally (it is a Chicago area forum), so the level of trash talking is akin to that in person.

 

I respect deeply what you do Robert and want you to know that it is appreciated. It is worth all the work you put into it.

[Tarz]

Tarz what does "throw their dummies out of the pram" mean?

Maybe it's just an English thing. It's like if you don't get your own way, you go into a big sulk. We also say 'taking your ball home' - i.e if a kid is losing at sport with his mates, he can't take it and will go home rather than accept that someone can beat him.

 

The point I was trying to make is that someone has an opinion that others disagree with - be it on politics, what constitutes sexism or whatever - rather than accept that vegans will disagree on certain issues, they take it upon themselves to leave rather than remember that we are all vegans at the end of the day and tolerate those differences.

 

I think some vegans are extremely arrogant in assuming that all vegans should think the same as them, or you are a 'lesser vegan' because you think differently.

[hsorlando]

I think sometimes too many people, it doesn't matter if they're vegan or not, get into the personality thing too much. For me it's more about the individual qualities that a person has. Honesty is one of the most important things to me in a person, but aside from just being brutally honest about where you stand a little compassion is nice too. I mean just because vegans have more compassion for animals, doesn't neccessarily mean we shouldn't show compassion to humans too. Just my 2 cents.

[DV]

Robert, thank you for the clarification. I think you've done a wonderful job of keeping this forum friendly. I've only had one other experience with a vegan forum and had to finally leave because of the inane nitpicking.

[Octopussoir]

It seems as if some of the newer people on here are less forgiving than some. When I see topics on some people claiming to be vegetarian but they eat fish or drink a minute amount of milk I see people bash the hell out of them for it and so on. BUT, some of the older members(like vegan potter) come out with a positive side and say well at least theyre trying to do good with their diet and be 90+ percetn of what they claim and trying to get others to do the same.

 

I feel that some people like to be labelled. Oh, im vegan so I must come down on others who arent or people really critical to others who are but arent as vegan as I am. I can see why Robert said he was tired of vegans at one point. Its because of these attitudes towards others.

 

When I first came on here I wasnt 100% vegan but nobody cared about that. They cared that I was here and that I was contributing to the fitness board. When I had questions people had open arms with positive answers. Personally, I think we shouldnt have political threads. This is about fitness, bodybuilding, and health. Yeah politics does play a role in life, but there are things "some" people shouldnt debate cause its a lose lose situation when it comes to OPINIONS.

 

I think we should all reevaluate ourselves and watch what we post. It sucks to see people who contribute so much leave because theyre feelings are hurt. Yes, its true, some people cannot take it and we shouldnt push them away because of it. We are all strong and weak in our own ways. Id hate to see this board go due to people arguing about stupid shit. Lets all come together as a community and HELP each other out to the best of our abilities.

 

~jimi

[flanders77]

Thanks for telling your point of view on CG leaving, Robert!

IMO our community needs a firm base made of respect, love, open communication and also tolerance.

It is of great importance that every new member joining the forum understands that we (as a community) do not tolerate anyone undermining our base.

Many vegans have a tough time in the omni-world and act like I-am-more-vegan-than-you all the time. They have to understand that this forum is not the place to do this.

The ideas I roughed out work for the raw/cooked-problem as well.

IMO different opinions are hardly ever a problem as long as the opponents are respectful and tolerate other points of view.

[Mike]

I mean just because vegans have more compassion for animals, doesn't neccessarily mean we shouldn't show compassion to humans too.

 

Awesome!! That would actually make a great signature. It's all about compassion- compassion for all living things.

 

Mike

[Zack]

Exactly...humans are just another animal and deserve compassion as well.

 

A lot of people use words that act to separate us from animals....I don't like that. We are as much animals as any other and I think that is an important thing to realize.

[Guest]

We're animals just like other animals that don't show compassion to others in their species. I think its important to care for others but I wouldn't say all. I'm never gonna be out there protesting the death penalty for murdering rapists. There's a place for everyone and everything and some people don't deserve respect...I'm not referencing anyone here...I'm more or less speaking of sick...terribly cruel humans.

[hsorlando]

I understand, I mean Hitler was a terrible person,and did horrible things but I wasn''t really thinking about terrorists when I wrote this lol