joelbct

My protein Picks:

Nutiva Hemp 15g: I love the taste, nutty and hempy . Tastes like a real food, not a supplement. Much better tasting than other brands of hemp so if you were turned off by a different brand, try Nutiva.

Hemp is supposed to be 80% bio available, but only 55% optimal in Lysine, and low in Isoleucine and Tryptophan. Good to complement with Yellow Pea or Lentils which are very high in these three.

Jarrow Brown Rice: Affordable but taste/texture not so great.

Jarrow Optimal Plant: Affordable compared to other vegan protein blends, and contains Rice, Pea, Hemp, Chia, and Chlorella mixed in optimal ratios, but tastes like a supplement.

Vega: I used to use this. Vega tastes amazing, but ~$3us per serving, which I think comes to 10-20 cents per gram of protein, whereas the Hemp, Rice, Pea, Jarrow Optimal etc can be found for 2-4 cents per gram of protein online. Given there are plenty of other vitamins and nutrients in Vega so it's not a fair comparison. Vega Sport probably makes sense for serious athletes and those who can afford to spend $120 per month per protein.

I haven't tried Yellow Pea, that is next on my list.

Was it anything in particular that made you 'relapse'? ie. any words of wisdom?

Yeah there were 3 or 4 times in the past 7 years where things got so chaotic/stressful/depressing (job, a relationship, financial issues, etc) that my diet and animal rights were no longer a big concern, but those were thankfully brief situations, and my conscience and health-awareness kicked back in full-strength when things calmed down.

Not that stress is a good excuse, but because I didn't go vegan until 7 I was 22, I try not to judge other people too much for eating or wearing animal products (even though part of me wants to!), so I can't be too hard on myself either. But my 20's are almost over and I'm I think more stable, so with any luck I will stay Vegan for the rest of my life, and hopefully help some other people "see the light" as well.

I haven't visited this board all that often since the beginning bec while jogging and working out are a part of my life, they aren't as much of a focus as they might be, though when I have the time and money I do try to get into a steady gym routine.

Anyway thanks for continuing to be an inspiration (and a great talking point for conversations with vegan-skeptical omnivores) all you Vegan athletes! I don't know how many times I've said to people, "no, being Vegan you can be perfectly healthy and get lots of protein, even be an athlete or a bodybuilder! Don't believe me? Check out veganbodybuilding.com!"

-Joel

Hearing a farm sanctuary presentation about the horrors of even the dairy and egg industry, and then finding this board, did it for me.

The meet your meat vid was pretty convincing as well, I think it has stuff in there about eggs and dairy.

Pictures can be worth a thousand words. Both pictures of the healthy vegan athletes, and pictures of the meat leather fur dairy and egg industry as it really is:

http://www.peta.org/tv/videos/graphic/default.aspx

And then of course pictures of happy animals

http://a.pictureupload.us/45449577550e9937d43588.jpg

http://www.farmsanctuary.org/photos/?album=1&gallery=26#content

Hey, nice board here, you are all quite inspriring-

 

So as of yesterday, midway through some scrambled eggs, I have determined to try cutting out dairy and eggs-

 

Any tips?

 

-JB

Just thought I'd check in and give a shoutout.

Was looking at my first posts here. In April 06 I heard Gene Bauer speak at a humane society convention in CT, that week started searching the web for health and veganism articles to make sure it was safe, found this site, and almost 7 years later I am a vegan still. Had a few brief "relapses" which I'm not proud of, but I'd say 6.5 of the past 7 years Iv'e been 100% Vegan.

Thanks Robert et al!

The brown are ok, I'd still like something nicer though but that could be a start.

Unfortunately I cannot find my size (12, or 11 since I've read they run large) :/

They look better in person than in the images. It is a well made shoe, best faux suede I have seen.

As for fit, they are European Shoes, so European sizes, if you don't know your Euro/UK sizes see the chart:

http://www.zappos.com/measure-your-shoe-size?gclid=CPL2-ZPVoa4CFWITNAodHGFJPg

For instance I am US 10.5, the Novacas fit me in 43. Conversion from US to Euro/UK sizes is an imperfect science, for instance with Dr Martens Vegan boots, neither the UK 9 nor UK 10 fit me, i would need a 9.5 which they don't make...

If you are US 11-12, you would probably want size Euro 44.

You can place a backorder request for your size from Moo Shoes, that is what I did to get them, it was there within a month. The shoes sell out quickly but they place orders on a regular basis.

I consider these staples:

Seasoned salt, garlic powder, onion powder, turmeric, chili powder, paprika, curry powder, cinnamon, nutritional yeast, berbere, black pepper, sea salt

 

And recently I've been putting gochujang in everything. Not low-cal like the powdered spices, but a little goes a long way.

Interesting, I'd never heard of gochujang.

As far as fermented asian products, I love Miso myself too, especially red Miso.

I want to check out the one in Williamsburg, it's on my to do list.

My fave NYC Vegan restaurants so far are Cafe Blossom and Sacred Chow

Both are stellar, awesome eating experiences, and focused on real food as opposed to meat analogues.

I always take note when a worldwide type publication touches on Factory Farming or Veganism:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/02/pastured-poultry/

Personally of course I'd rather everyone be Vegan, but I am also in the meantime for harm reduction, and if articles on the merits of pastured-livestock over factory farms convince people not to buy Purdue or KFC, that is at least a step in the right direction...

I bought the Novacas Dennis in Brown Suede from Moo Shoes a couple months ago:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/joelbct/Other/Novacas-Dennis-Brown-1.jpg

I love them because they can be worn with jeans or dress pants.. They also make a black (non-suede) version.

They are handmade in Portugal. I believe Brooklyn-based designer and Vegan Joshua Katcher is the man behind the design. He also has a line called Brave Gentleman which makes the Mastermind Shoe, which at $250 perhaps I will buy next time I have a well-paying job that requires dress clothes:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/joelbct/Other/mastermind1.jpg

Mr. Katcher apparently can also create custom Vegan bespoke suits. I am so glad he exists and is doing what he is doing so that all of us slightly-style-concerned metropolitan Vegans can have both our compassion and stylish quality footwear at the same time.

Highly recommend the Dennis shoe...

One of the best things for me about becoming Vegan was that I started experimenting with all sorts of spices and ethnic foods I would not have explored otherwise- asian, mexican, indian, etc. I eat organic brown rice every day, with black beans, lentils, vegetables, etc (i love carbs, with no apologies, as long as it's whole grain), and always with spices as well as lots of extra virgin olive oil.

This stuff is my favorite Curry Blend, Frontier Seasonings. Lots of news bits about how turmeric is supposed to be such a great anti-inflammatory too, which is cool because I could eat it every day.

http://www.vitacost.com/Images/Products/200/Frontier/Frontier-Curry-Powder-Certified-Organic-Seasoning-Blend-089836184887.jpg

I think you can get it in bulk too, which I should probably do...

I know many on this board avoid supplements, but I am about to get back to the gym after a couple years away, and am going to try this Jarrow Optimal Plant Proteins 21g protein with these ingredients: Pea protein isolate, organic rice protein, pea fiber, organic hemp protein, Golden Chlorella, chia meal powder, xylitol, natural french vanilla, Metabolin (bacterial metabolites), Lo Han Guo (Momodica grosvenori), and stevia.

The Story of Stuff:How Our Obsession with Stuff Is Trashing the Planet, Our Communities, and Our Health - and a Vision for Change

http://www.amazon.com/Story-Stuff-Obsession-Communities-Health/dp/143912566X

 

OOOooo! I like that one. Thanks for the link.

I read this not too long ago, Shiny Objects, Why We Spend Money We Don't Have in Search of Happiness We Can't Buy.

Yeah, level of saturation-advertising, materialism, and consumer culture in this country is scary... but I still like my stuff, in moderation :/

I like all three of those names. All three are heroes to me in their own ways. Harris is probably my favorite but I don't like is weak argument for not being vegan (in his fairly recent Ask Sam Harris Anything #1 video). I don't like Dawkins' argument either, seen in the video interview with Peter Singer.

I am now reading Harris' The Moral Landscape, which argues that facts, reason, science, and the concept of well-being are the proper basis for morality, as opposed to liberal moral relativism or conservative religious "morality."

I am only a few chapters in, but Harris does often mention the well-being off conscious creatures, not just of humans. I suspect that he is just trying to pick his battles by not focusing more on animals.

In any case, to a thinking vegan, these 3 are quite important, especially in the USA, because the "biblical" argument in favor of eating animals is sadly so pervasive.

Read Harris' books and you will have plenty of reasoned, thoughtful points to make as to why this religious justification for the status quo is mistaken and quite harmful.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/were-eating-less-meat-why/#

Mark Bittman op-ed- Americans eating less meat, as meat industry complains that US government is waging a war on animal protein. Riiiight...

Hopefully you haven't become too militant

What's too militant? I don't know claim to know with certainty what the actual ultimate nature of the universe is, if such a concept has any validity... I just meant to say I like those authors' works, and I appreciate their perspective and arguments. Let's just say especially as a Vegan, living in the USA at this point in time, I have a special place in my heart for a reasonably argued, well-constructed contrarian viewpoint on just about any issue....

As for Veganism, what convinced me was the images and sounds in Meat your Meat, followed by hearing Gene Bauer speak, followed by coming across this very website of vegan athletes 7 years ago. The video was more powerful than all the books in the world could have been...

For non-vegan influential books, I may have posted on this thread years ago, but here is my list now:

Marcus Aurelius' Meditations

Basically a journal of brief philosophical musings.

Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and Sam Harris' books had a lasting impact.

For fiction, William Gibson, Gary Shteyngart, Jonathan Ames, to name a few....

Hmm this took a few minutes to copy and paste, but hey, important issue, so I thought I might as well copy these replies of mine for posterity, rather than let them be lost in the internet black hole of back issues of the Atlantic :/ I certainly got a bit acerbic at times, but it was hard to resist... some award-winners from the omnivore debating society:

Simply over analyzing the issue. These animals are designed to be eaten.

Yes, the benevolent Creator designed animals to be eaten.

And He designed factory farms to appear in the 20th century, so animals could be eaten on a larger scale. And He also designed humans to be eaten, by the powerful aliens who are fattening us up for the slaughter unawares as we speak. And in His all-seeing wisdom, he designed the Common Cold, so that we would more keenly appreciate our health. And moreover, He designed the Appendix and Tonsils, in His infinite glory, so that surgeons might have a more stable income. Furthermore, He designed deadly Tsunamis, Earthquakes, Infant Mortality, Birth Defects, Old Age, and those Akward Middle School Years, so that, well there is certainly an important Reason for these phenomenon, which, in His Infinite Glory, he has kept from us, because if we knew it, then there wouldn't be any more mystery....

You envision a world without livestock animals? You prefer they were extinct? Or just kept in petting zoos?

 

I don't get it.

I used to use that same reasoning with my vegetarian sister when I was 12.

But you could also say, could you envision a world without underage sex slaves born into brothels? Would you prefer they just be let to die, instead of being kept alive by their captors, who are actually doing these enslaved minors a favor?

Yes, utilitarianism is popular in academia and has influenced policy, but overall the moral framework of our laws and policies is so far not based on utilitarianism (or on any one philosophy).

 

Ethics based on shared emotions is quite difficult. How do we really know what shares emotions with us? Cows? Lobsters? Bees?

 

I suppose if I truly believed that killing of any sentient being was always wrong (or potentially wrong given there is no accurate way to know what really shares our emotions) I would eat a calorie-restricted vegan diet based on a limited amount of low-impact hand-harvested organic crops. And I would refrain from reproducing since any child I bring into this world only causes more death of other beings. Quite bleak, really. A true utilitarian would also not excuse animals from causing pain and death and might make an effort to reshape ecology.

I keep hearing the same fallacies repeated in different ways.

By that logic, we musn't attempt to reduce suffering, because we cannot reduce it to zero, and because we cannot be 100% sure of the consequences of our actions.

That sounds like nihilism, and a pretty weak argument against veganism and in favor of the status quo.

It's like saying, well, game theory indicates that we are all f-cked, so let's hurry up and get ours whilst we destroy the planet quicker. Is that really the person you want to be?

ahhh. Anthropomorphism. I gotcha. I suppose I shouldn't eat the kale in my garden either, because someone somewhere might consider it a family member? Maybe we should all be breatharians?

Plants do not have brains. They don't have pain receptors, nervous systems, or sense organs. That is why we distinguish them as "plants."

And we're back to the perfectionist argument... nobody can be perfect, so let's not even try to improve ourselves one iota!

Again, I have much more respect for someone who simply admits, I kill and eat animals, I don't care about them, than for someone who tries to prove that caring is wrong.

We care, get over it. Most people who didn't have some hidden guilt wouldn't be on a message board arguing with vegans...

No, I'm not referring back to some perfectionist argument. I'm poking fun at the vegans who seem to think that if they refuse to eat animal products something marvelous will occur... I have a right to eat animals, you have a right to abstain.

Yes, and two hundred years ago you would have had a "right" to own slaves. Does that mean it would have been ethically desirable, all things considered?

As for what is accomplished by one person being Vegan, what is accomplished by one person voting in an election? Not much. Is that a good argument against voting? No. Because society is made up not of one person, but of many. Most large-scale human phenomena are composed of the smaller effects of many individual choices made by individual people.

I used to eat meat, some of my family members and many of my friends and coworkers eat meat. Custom is very powerful, and most vegans myself included do not go about life with some self righteous or holier-than-thou attitude.

But if you bring up the subject, yes, we will explain our reasoning, as I have been doing here.

Why do people always bring dogs into these conversations? A dog is an animal we keep as a pet. Not a preferred source of meat in our culture - and I would argue that's due to the lack of meat on dogs - but if they are in another culture (and many eat dogs), what's the big deal?

 

I eat cows and other sentient animals. I make no excuses about this. If you are a vegan, you are complicit in the death of animals too. Indirectly to be sure, but still. Life feeds on life, you can not remove yourself from this circle.

True. Vegans still are complicit in the death of animals. Therefore, they should revert to eating meat, and killing more animals.

By that logic, nobody should ever do anything to try to improve anything, because they cannot be perfect. That makes sense....

Killing is killing is killing... sentience or not, doesn't matter. All you plant eaters are killers just the same, except you pick slower, weaker prey that is rooted in place.

Plants don't have brains, awareness, senses, or pain receptors, genius.

So why is it, then, that sunflowers rotate to face the sun as it passes across the horizon?

It's a chemical reaction. What, you think they decide in their nonexistent sunflower brains, hmm i was just hanging out here in this field, but wouldn't it be nice to follow the sun? Where were you people in Biology 101?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071228180836AAbAAVP

(In reply to someone who wrote "I value Human life more than Animal life")

Valuing human life and valuing animal life are rarely mutually exclusive.

If we value sentient life in general, we will try to preserve the Earth for our children and their children ad infinitum, not destroy it in an orgy of excess. This planet is our life raft.

Farming grain to feed livestock is incredibly wasteful, with 7 billion people on the planet, many of whom aspire to an animal-heavy Western-style diet.

"The UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) has estimated that direct emissions from meat production account for about 18% of the world's total greenhouse gas emissions." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7600005.stm

(In reply to someone who said "I won't apologize for my ancestors hunting and gathering nor should anyone be attacked for carrying on the tradition of something that's obviously working. Evolution makes no moral judgements, only that you survive long enough to pass on your genes to the next generation or not.")

There is a strong evolutionary basis for Rape, as well. Sure gets the genes passed on to the next generation!

I won't apologize for my distant ancestors practicing Rape. But personally I tend to view Rape as barbaric.

Reductio ad absurdum...

(In reply to "Domesticated livestock that actually cannot survive without human intervention are hardly comparable to child sex trafficking.")

Why not? Children can't survive without human intervention either.

We all have brains and 5 senses. Where do you draw the line? We all draw it somewhere. Europeans used to believe aborigines weren't human, that it was ridiculous to draw a comparison between a Native and a White Man, and so we could do what we wanted with them- kill, enslave, exploit.

How about the disabled? Is it cool to kill a mentally retarded person because he couldn't survive without human intervention? How about a great ape, our closest relative?

Dogs, cats?

Again, we all draw the line of empathy or identification somewhere, Vegans just take it a bit further than Carnivores.

You're doing great work, Robert. The ones who get it, know it...and we love you for it.

Darn straight. I was at a vegan meetup in NYC yesterday, and someone I met said Robert is the hardest working vegan alive

I had mentioned that coming across Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness 6 or 7 years ago was part of what convinced me it was safe and practical to go full Vegan in the first place. First I heard Gene Bauer of Farm Sanctuary speak, and I said ok, time to go 100% plants, but I didn't know whether it would be healthy (haha).

Then I came across Robert's board and site, with pictures of bodybuilders, big power lifters, and endurance athletes who are Vegan, and that convinced me. I am sure this website has helped many others take the plunge as well.

No we cannot convince everyone to go vegan tomorrow, but none of the progressive changes and enlightened attitudes human society has slowly adopted have occurred overnight. There is certainly hope, if humanity does not self destruct first, that a few hundred years down the line or hopefully much sooner, the concept of enslaving animals for food could be viewed universally as barbaric as well as crazy and unhealthful, just as current western society would view many customs of a few hundred years ago as the same. All change starts with one individual at a time...

You have to remember that veganism is seen by the vast majority as extreme, pointless, or even dangerous.

The trainer quoted as saying veganism is an extreme diet amused me. To imply that the standard american diet, or a super-animal-heavy bodybuilding diet is less "extreme" than eating fruits, vegetables, nuts, legumes, grains... people are so skilled at deluding themselves.

As for comments, I wasted an afternoon last week in a heated comment debate on a Marc Bekoff article in the Atlantic, where he responds to those two former vegetarian women who advocate grass-fed beef or something.

The usual suspects of anemic logical fallacies... the bible says its ok, vegans don't make any difference, you can't be perfect so why try, vegans are somehow less ethical than meat eaters, veganism is unhealthy or impractical, etc etc.... In any case, what a waste of time :/ But I did get in some 5-star debating gems... 18 disqus comments, 104 likes received

Hey congrats on this article, great to get some international coverage such as the New York Times:

Vegans Muscle Their Way into Bodybuilding

HUNTSVILLE, Ala. — Jimi Sitko gets up at 4 most mornings, works out two to four hours a day and can bench-press nearly twice his weight. He has a shaved head and a brightly colored tattoo on his left arm, and he can easily be mistaken for a Marine separated from his platoon.

His apartment is filled with medals and trophies from bodybuilding competitions, snapshots of his tanned, rippled physique in full flex. His uniform is an assortment of sweat pants and hoodies, which he occasionally lifts when his abs look particularly fierce.

But most surprising is what is inside Sitko’s stomach: tofu, fresh greens and plant-based protein powder.

Sitko is among a niche community of vegan bodybuilders.

[edit - sorry, I see this was already mentioned in a thread. Although perhaps a NY Times article mention deserves two threads :/ ]

Well the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has the right idea at least:

BBC News Article: Shun meat, says UN climate chief

I could not believe that this wasn't covered in the NY Times Science Section this week, let alone much of the rest of the US media... I think I will write a letter to editor!

At least Time Magazine is covering the issue... First step towards a solution is admitting there is a problem and breaking through society's mountain of Denial about animal 'products.'

I do agree that the article ends on an asinine note, though:

"Still, Pachauri is just slightly off. It's a tactical mistake, first of all, to focus global warming action on personal restrictions. The developed world could cut back hugely on its meat consumption, but those gains would be largely swallowed up — sorry — by the developing world, which isn't likely to give up its newly acquired taste for cheeseburgers and pork."

Yeah who wins the election matters, but saying that its a tactical mistake to focus on personal "restrictions" (read- accountibility) is ridiculous. They can't legislate westerners to adopt 'green' habits anymore than they can legislate morality... Good leadership and laws will help, but of COURSE we need to inspire the public to consume less and consume more intelligently, if we are to have any hope of surviving as a species.

And the argument that we shouldn't do the right thing because the developing world will do the wrong thing is a) logically fallacious, b) something a second grader would say c) the same arguments the oil companies and industrial polluters use.

Thanks so much! That means a lot

Then he asked "What do wealthy vegans eat?

One particular delicacy that is both Vegan and one of my obsessions is Tea. Great tea isn't necessarily expensive, but I have easily spent $400 in a month on loose-leaf tea around harvest time, mostly Japanese Sencha and Matcha (Green) and Chinese/Indian Black, from places like Ito En or Ippodo in Japan.

Good Matcha (super high-end Japanese Powdered Green Tea) can be $20-50 for a 20 or 30 gram package, which can get into the $1000+ a pound range. At 2-5 grams a serving, its still only about as expensive as a serving of Vega, but it is certainly a luxury.

matcha:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/joelbct/Banreko4a.jpg

sencha:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j6/joelbct/Chiran08.jpg

I'm sure there are wealthy vegans who spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a bottle of wine too...

And I am not wealthy, but my tastes in food can run in that direction- I usually spend ~100 US/week at whole foods, on mostly organic vegan food. I think overall, we save a lot of money being Vegan though. Meat/Dairy is expensive to produce, energy-wise, so per calorie it usually costs much more than plant-foods.

Not to be solicitous, but here is a plug- I am participating in Farm Sanctuary's Sept 28th Walk for Farm Animals, feel free to sponsor me and make a donation to help the cause, and for super good Karma

Anyone else in the NY area doing this? I think they are having walks all over the country this next few weeks...

Hope all is well out there!

-Joel