Jack Norris, vegan Registered Dietitian on Raw Diets

[DV]

Thumbs up, Robert. Well said.

[robert]

It takes a lot. We've banned 3 people of about 2000 who have posted over 5 years.

 

No real guidelines, but those of us who run the site know when someone needs to be removed and we work with that person for weeks or months to find resolution before we close their account. Many times resolution is reached and we don't need to do any banning.

[New World Vegan]

I'm pro-raw, but I support Roberts decision and will continue to promote peace.

 

The anti-raw ones( the uncalled-4 ) have succeded in chasing people away(like andesuma. I'm not going to be one less member - I'm staying)

 

They succeded in removing the Raw section. But their problem will still exist. Raw talk is a part of Health talk. The solution:

 

regulate shit stirrers from stirring shit,

or hostility; on both sides. Notice, this very thread was posted in the raw section.....it's an ANTI-raw message(and one that didn't contain proof, but personal experience - something they complain about us doing). The only reason to post it is to instigate raw people. That should be regulated.

[beforewisdom]

I became a vegetarian at 14 when I went raw after reading Dr. Norman Walker's books. I did it for a full year, followed all of the rules. I got weak and sick in a variety of interesting ways. Luckily I had a friend who was a vegetarian and an open minded family doctor. They both encouraged me to read "Diet For A Small Planet" and become a regular vegetarian. My diet has been based on cooked whole grains and legumes ever since. That was 29 years ago. Aside from sports related injuries my health has been excellent. I have been into reading about nutrition as a hobby since then. College got me into science, philosophy and thinking.

 

I am anti-raw.

 

I am proud of it.

 

The rationales for going raw as explained in raw food books are fictions, potentially harmful and, with [b]no offense to anyone[/b], just plain silly once you have any idea of how things work.

 

Medman summed up that confusion the best: confusing correlation with causation.

 

I think raw foodists hurt veganism. Many people think if they go vegan they have to go raw or that it is a logical progression. At least once a year there is an article about a child dying because their "vegan" parents were really raw foodists who undernourished their child to conform to some crazy raw food beliefs.

 

I don't like that people here were offended, but I am glad the raw board is gone and that some of the more vociferous raw foodists were gone. My feelings here are about valuing the truth and not wanting misinformation -- potentially harmful misinformation --- propagated.

 

I am anti-raw foodist and unapologetic about it.

[New World Vegan]

I got weak and sick in a variety of interesting ways.........."Diet For A Small Planet"............thinking

I didn't want to keep doing this, but I AM SORRY. These 4 people got what they wanted.....now the "personal stories" and biased views are worse.....from them.

 

Please someone else field the above retoric, and Frances' Book. I'm tired of being negative.

[DV]

Please let's not confuse balance with bias.

[Vegan Joe]

http://www.ingenia-comunicacion.com/tierra-y-triguico/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/marty_feldman.jpg

[DaN]

So raw is gone!

 

Blimey, I have to say I agree with Roberts decision, it did cause alot of arguments from what I have seen.Poor Robert probably didnt realise it would

 

I think its a shame that it caused arguments, because its not actually a really important thing anyway, like, lets say politics, animal rights or religion.

 

Its just whether you heat your food or not!

 

I can not think of many smaller or more insignificant things to get in an argument about!

 

[ChaserHUN]

I became a vegetarian at 14 when I went raw after reading Dr. Norman Walker's books. I did it for a full year, followed all of the rules. I got weak and sick in a variety of interesting ways. Luckily I had a friend who was a vegetarian and an open minded family doctor. They both encouraged me to read "Diet For A Small Planet" and become a regular vegetarian. My diet has been based on cooked whole grains and legumes ever since. That was 29 years ago. Aside from sports related injuries my health has been excellent. I have been into reading about nutrition as a hobby since then. College got me into science, philosophy and thinking.

 

I am anti-raw.

 

I am proud of it.

 

The rationales for going raw as explained in raw food books are fictions, potentially harmful and, with [b]no offense to anyone[/b], just plain silly once you have any idea of how things work.

 

Medman summed up that confusion the best: confusing correlation with causation.

 

I think raw foodists hurt veganism. Many people think if they go vegan they have to go raw or that it is a logical progression. At least once a year there is an article about a child dying because their "vegan" parents were really raw foodists who undernourished their child to conform to some crazy raw food beliefs.

 

I don't like that people here were offended, but I am glad the raw board is gone and that some of the more vociferous raw foodists were gone. My feelings here are about valuing the truth and not wanting misinformation -- potentially harmful misinformation --- propagated.

 

I am anti-raw foodist and unapologetic about it.

 

And what did you eat on a raw food diet?

When I first tried raw food, I was week too because I was going after poeple who says fruit is bad deon't eat much of them, and eat lot of "superfoods" and this and that, but now I tried 811, made a whole difference, I'm eating lots of fruits and greens, getting enough calories. It's really sad that people bash raw food diets because of stupid people who eat an apple and a leaf of lettuce a day and become really weak. I'm not saying that everyone has to go raw, but some people say it's bad because they tried a bad version of it, a vegan or vegetarian diet can be bad for a meat eater if it's not arranged well. I mean you can eat lot of vegan junk foods, and I don't think you will feel much better on that.

Edited December 4, 2008 by ChaserHUN

[beforewisdom]

I got weak and sick in a variety of interesting ways.........."Diet For A Small Planet"............thinking

I didn't want to keep doing this, but I AM SORRY. These 4 people got what they wanted.....now the "personal stories" and biased views are worse.....from them.

 

Please someone else field the above retoric, and Frances' Book. I'm tired of being negative.

 

It is only "bias" and anecdotal accounts because you cherry picked a quote from my entire post. I also wrote that I started reading about nutrition when I was teenager and have continued to do so. I also studied science, philosophy and logic in college. In other words, my opinions are based on facts gathered with methods of finding facts that have been validated over the course of western civilization.

 

You are the one who is biased and playing rhetorical games by selectively quoting my post. Your opinion comes from your own anecdotal account and the fictitious writing of raw food authors.

 

Call me "biased" if you want or "negative". If people went around saying that the sky is orange instead of blue, if those people were giving the beautiful philosophy of veganism ( not vegan diets ) a bad name and if that fiction was encouraging people to make poor health choices then I would gladly take the label of "biased" or "negative" gladly.

 

If people got offended by me calling the sky blue and telling them that the book where they read that the sky is orange is bull shit, so be it. I see raw foodism as being in the same category as calling the sky orange. A fiction that some people have a fetish for.

 

It was a positive move for this board to get rid of the raw section and to move away from appearing to promote medical fictions.

 

I'm posting because your posts in this thread have essentially been whining about this positive move and trying to spin it into something negative that should be blamed on people who only wanted untruths to stop being promoted.

 

Too bad for you.

[xjohanx]

It's really sad that people bash raw food diets because of stupid people who eat an apple and a leaf of lettuce a day and become really weak.

 

You mean sort of like when a person blames the cooking of food for his/hers weigt gain when all the person consumed was cheeseburgers and pizzas?

[ChaserHUN]

It's really sad that people bash raw food diets because of stupid people who eat an apple and a leaf of lettuce a day and become really weak.

 

You mean sort of like when a person blames the cooking of food for his/hers weigt gain when all the person consumed was cheeseburgers and pizzas?

 

Yeah something like that, thats not raw foods fault that some people starve themselves to death, and believe some "raw-gurus" that: "look at me I eat less than 1000 calories a day and I look like a bodybuilder, and all I eat are superfoods"

You don't have to eat expensive superfoods to have a superbody, and you shouldn't starve yourself to death, 811 book says at least eat 2000kcal a day. Charlie Abel eat 4000kcal a day and he is a raw-vegan bodybuilder, mostly he follows 811, I know lot of you don't believe that someone can built muscles on raw diet, and say he is just maintaing, but that's another topic.

[blabbate]

I know lot of you don't believe that someone can built muscles on raw diet, and say he is just maintaing, but that's another topic.

I don't think that's actually the case. It sounds like a straw man. I haven't been here for that long, but one look at L&G is proof enough that one can build muscles on a raw diet.

[beforewisdom]

And what did you eat on a raw food diet?

It's really sad that people bash raw food diets because of stupid people who eat an apple and a leaf of lettuce a day and become really weak

 

I read several of Dr. Norman Walker's books at that time. His ideas on raw foodism are pretty much exactly the same as contemporary raw food writers. As I wrote, which you seemed to have missed is that I followed all of his rules and I have been reading on nutrition as a hobbyist for almost 29 years since then.

 

I'm not a stupid person, I'm not ignorant on the subject, I gave raw foodism a try for a full year of my life and I am much more educated on the subject of human nutrition and epistemology then you are.

 

If I go around telling people who claim the sky is orange that they are wrong am I "bashing" "orange skyism" or those people?

 

Dude, raw foodism is the same thing. The rationales for it are fictions.

[beforewisdom]

I know lot of you don't believe that someone can built muscles on raw diet, and say he is just maintaing, but that's another topic.

I don't think that's actually the case. It sounds like a straw man. I haven't been here for that long, but one look at L&G is proof enough that one can build muscles on a raw diet.

 

L&G relies on powdered algae for much of his protein and he consumes a lot of protein. That isn't exactly a low protein raw diet.

 

It isn't exactly "natural" as raw foodists see it either. I wouldn't call processed algae powder a "live food". If cooking food destroys "enzymes" or other "vital substances" I can't see any of those mythical entities surviving algae being processed into protein powder.

[ChaserHUN]

I didn't asked whos book did you read, I asked how did your diet look-like, what did you eat?

And Charlie Abel doesn't eat algaes

[beforewisdom]

I didn't asked whos book did you read, I asked how did your diet look-like, what did you eat?

 

Why should I? I am better read on the subject then you. Are you going to read an account of my raw food diet when I was 14 and come back with

"A hah! You did_____! No wonder". I don't think so.

 

I had the same kind of mentality when I was your age. I grew out of it. In part because other people told me how foolish my beliefs, and more importantly, the process I used to arrive at those beliefs were. I was offended, but when I was ready to learn those ideas helped.

 

Let me leave you with one idea. There are people who are just as competant as you are and as your raw food fiction writers are. Given at least equal mental competence there is a high likelihood that these people know more than you or the raw food authors do. They have taken that competence which is at least equal to yours, did research with it for more years then you/the raw food authors have, read more and got more education.....education based on hundreds of years of similar people applying that equal competence.

 

 

And Charlie Abel doesn't eat algaes

 

Who cares? L&G does and I pointed it out to another poster who said that the fact that L&G seems to bodybuilding well is proof that raw foodists can make impressive BB gains. My point was that doesn't apply as L&G is drinking the same flavor of raw koolaide that you guys are

 

No offense to you L&G

[ChaserHUN]

?? You're afraid to tell that you followed a shit raw-food diet or what?

Dr. Graham made lot of researches, and I try to read as much as I can, but you know what? I don't give a fuck on science, I care about HOW I FEEL MYSELF, I'm feeling great, in the beggining of summer I tried raw foods, and it was a big failure, I was week, and looked awful, because I was going after stupid "raw-gurus" and superfood-geeks, and I ended up always eating the unhelthiest things I could find at home(it was still vegan). When I red the 811 and followed it, made a big difference on the whole raw foods, I feel great and that's important

[beforewisdom]

Good luck with the religion

[blabbate]

I know lot of you don't believe that someone can built muscles on raw diet, and say he is just maintaing, but that's another topic.

I don't think that's actually the case. It sounds like a straw man. I haven't been here for that long, but one look at L&G is proof enough that one can build muscles on a raw diet.

L&G relies on powdered algae for much of his protein and he consumes a lot of protein. That isn't exactly a low protein raw diet.

He didn't specify "low-protein," just raw. If he meant low-protein raw, that's different, and I might agree.

[beforewisdom]

Reading comprehension. L&G's case was cited as an example that one can be raw and successful at bodybuilding. The whole point to being raw for raw foodists is to eat "living foods" that have a vital essence that is otherwise destroyed by heating the food. L&G is succesful at weigh lifting because he gets a good deal of his nutrition ( protein ) from processed, powdered algae. Hardly living and hardly less process then cooked food.

[blabbate]

Reading comprehension. L&G's case was cited as an example that one can be raw and successful at bodybuilding. The whole point to being raw for raw foodists is to eat "living foods" that have a vital essence that is otherwise destroyed by heating the food. L&G is succesful at weigh lifting because he gets a good deal of his nutrition ( protein ) from processed, powdered algae. Hardly living and hardly less process then cooked food.

Ah, I blocked out that he was talking about 811. Yeah, L&G doesn't seem to fit 811 at all, so nevermind. As to whether processed algae is considered "raw" ... well, I don't care much.

[Zack]

Reading comprehension. L&G's case was cited as an example that one can be raw and successful at bodybuilding. The whole point to being raw for raw foodists is to eat "living foods" that have a vital essence that is otherwise destroyed by heating the food. L&G is succesful at weigh lifting because he gets a good deal of his nutrition ( protein ) from processed, powdered algae. Hardly living and hardly less process then cooked food.

 

I love how well worded you are.

 

[New World Vegan]

One more post here, then I'll no longer contribute to this waste of all our time.

 

ChaserHUN, I realized yesterday that I was wasting my time on a couple people. And that we have to choose wisely on who to debate.

 

I agree with Vegan Joe... something bizarre is goin' on.

 

My #1 goal is to promote veganism(and all natural eating) as natural. I'm concerned that a passer-by will come upon a thread such as "how to get enough protein" and see that it was discussed for 6 pages!!

[Tasha]

This is exactly why the raw food section was removed.

 

Even for this post, it's already stirring up issues.

 

Blah so sick of it..

 

 

 

Thanks for moving the section into a different Category