CollegeB Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Our newly vegan friend Mike is telling me that I should only eat fermented soy or I will have all kinds of problems! I say that tongue in cheek as very little of what is in the article has any sort of citation. I thought this might be a good article to supplement what we've seen on T nation recently with the guy on the vegan-ish diet. I'm on board with reducing soy isolate consumption. It worked when i started lifting and I had good results while abusing it, but I just don't care for it now a days. What kinds of levels of soy consumption would need to happen for someone to experience ill effects in say 3 years. Lets talk lbs of tofu a day along with grams of soy protein isolate. If anyone has a formula or idea that'd be cool. Such knowledge really may not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I thought this might be a good article to supplement what we've seen on T nation recently with the guy on the vegan-ish diet. What article would that be? Zack has a good sticky about men taking shitloads of soy isolate and STILL not having hormone problems. Just make an appointment with a doctor and get your testosterone levels measured ( get your vitamin D, calcium and b-12 levels checked while you are there ). An hour of your time will end this issue for you. You can also keep a dairy of how much soy you actually eat and get your testosterone levels measured once every six months or some other interval recommended by your doctor. You can then make an article about it on a blog and post the URL to T-nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 I have been considering getting my levels checked, I've never done that before. I've got a very hairy chest still so I think i'm okay, but i'm still very curious how my diet has impacted the hormone levels if at all. In fact I don't have much fear about that, but the issues of cognitive decline that I see from time to time are on my radar. I don't think there is much of a test for those though. Years back though it was nothing but tofu, clif bars and protein isolates multiple times a day, I think I had soy rage. I was very angry often, but there were some other life things going on so it's difficult if not impossible to sort all of that out. I'm glad I found gemma and hemp powders as I feel better taking them. I did hear about a muscle and fitness magazine article which gave people the impression that soy was good. I wish this stuff would get sorted out especially since the weightlifting club at my school has this bulletin board and I think all of us would be angered by it. It says that the only complete protein is meat, all others are inferior, except for diary of course. It's good that nobody seems to read this board, but meat meat meat and milk is accepted by a good number of fitness people. What do doctors do to check hormone levels? I ask because I really hate needles. I'd put that t-nation article up, it was featured here recently. Something about some guy having a veganish diet. My firefox is messed up and won't save links.... here is the healthnews article on fermented soy...http://www.naturalnews.com/025513.html I have seen many recommendations to eat tempeh and miso but not so much tofu and stay away from the isolates. There are a lot of conflicting messages. Any good science journals to check out about this issue? I can search through the school database. I'd just like some research for either position. Everyone has anecdotals but those only carry so much validity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjs Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 here is the healthnews article on fermented soy...http://www.naturalnews.com/025513.htmlI have that site on my RSS reader because I like seeing some of the ideas they post, but I don't understand how they get away with writing huge articles like that with zero sources. I know there's truth to the anti-nutrient effects of legumes, but seriously that itself doesn't mean it's something to be worried about. We've evolved to handle a wide range of foods, just because the food contains some of these substances doesn't necessarily mean it's detrimental to us. This strikes me as particularly ridiculous: "All legumes contain phytate...but the soybean is particularly rich in this anti-nutrient. Phytate works in the gastrointestinal tract to tightly bind minerals...It has a particularly strong affinity for zinc, a mineral that supports wound healing, protein synthesis, reproductive health, nerve function, and brain development. It is believed that people living in developing countries are shorter than those in developed countries because of zinc deficiency caused by eating too many legumes." Extraordinary claims... with no evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im Your Man Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 What's that phytate thing, is it what disappears or get neutralized when we soak and cook legumes and which inhibits digestion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awaken375 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 God makes plant.Plant grows on earth.God calls it food in the bible.God then has your friend inform you of the fact that it must become an intoxicant before consuming. well, not really a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjs Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 What's that phytate thing, is it what disappears or get neutralized when we soak and cook legumes and which inhibits digestion?Rinsing beans removes some of the indigestible sugars (raffinose and stachyose) from the beans. Phytate is a form of phosphorus that we lack the enzyme to break down. It inhibits some mineral absorption, but that's probably only an issue for people with borderline low mineral intake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 I drink tea constantly and it's a zinc blocker, but i'm not even sure what a lack of zinc would do to me. I think i'm fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awaken375 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 "you aren't allowed to eat barleyuntil you turn it into beer firstthen it is actually consumable by a human body" this is typical non-vegan harassment. i have a friend of 15 or so years that stopped liking me over not eating meat, and started pretending to like me even more. then he faked being a vegetarian long enough for me to respect him again, so i would hear his excitement over meatloaf. if your life is anything like mine, you are surrounded by zombies who harass you because they are satanic robots.i wouldn't trust someone who claims they are a new vegan and tells you you can't eat soy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 there are people with soy allergies, if they go vegan...they can't eat soy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blabbate Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 there are people with soy allergies, if they go vegan...they can't eat soy.Erm, even if they don't go vegan, they shouldn't eat soy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 I've done a lot of things I shouldn't have done and I ain't gonna stop now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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