Where do I get my protein?

[RAINRA]

[ralst]

Is this meant to be informative? I've only seen this video posted on other boards before so that people could make fun of it.

 

Of course the guy in the video doesn't think he "needs" protein - he's a skinny bastard. It may be fine to listen to him if you also want to be a skinny bastard. I don't, so I eat protein.

[RobertSupreme]

For me, the jury's still out on this one. I think he makes some valid points and from what I learned from Phillip Day's work and research (www.credence.org) this makes absolute sense.

 

Yes he isn't as muscled as some people, but he's a long distance runner so to criticize him for this is irrelevant in my opinion. I would be very interested to see what a bodybuilder's results would be if he were to follow a similar low protein - high 'living'/raw food plan.

 

Whatever protein we consume (whether from meat or plants) has to be broken down and converted to human protein anyway and I think some people forget this. Sure, breaking down plant protein is easier than breaking down animal protein but the body still has to break it down into the building blocks and then construct it's own animal/human protein.

 

I will be following RainRa's progress very closely because this is of great interest to me. Personally, and unlike Rainra, I will be consuming lots of protein from sources such as hemp and rice powder until I am of a healthy weight for my height and age (I am currently underweight) and then I am going to experiment to see what kind of gains I can get without consuming loads of protein from refined sources.

 

My thread on protein (am I missing something here?) compliments this - the math and statistics suggest that we actually don't need to take in as much protein as thought and that the body is more than capable of using what it gets from raw food -amino acids etc.

 

This could be completely wrong and I could be making a big error - but that's fine because for me, nutrition is as much about learning as anything else. I'm not saying 'The guy is right, all who disagree are stupid' or anything like that (before I get laughed at for thinking this Orden guy might be onto something) it's just that for me it kind of makes sense.

 

So consider me on the fence for this at the moment

[Im Your Man]

Is this meant to be informative? I've only seen this video posted on other boards before so that people could make fun of it.

 

Of course the guy in the video doesn't think he "needs" protein - he's a skinny bastard. It may be fine to listen to him if you also want to be a skinny bastard. I don't, so I eat protein.

Comon man, do you call everybody "bastard" like this ? Would you like that someone calls you like that? The guy's got a shirt on, how can you tell he's skinny? He's got a bigger chest than a lot of guys who eat a hundred times more protein than he does. Of course he's not big, he's a runner and he's trying his best to be as skinny as most other runners, who eat more proteins.

[robert]

I will admit a couple of things.....

 

I am a big fan of protein....after 13 years being vegan and 8 years being a vegan bodybuilder, I am a fan of high protein...that is just what has worked best for me and I have tried lots of different things. It just seems to make sense and work well in experiences I've had over and over throughout my life.

 

I'll also admit Tim is a nice guy and in really good shape.....and he's a damn good runner. I've met him a time or two in L.A. and have heard about his races from him and from others who competed against him who didn't even know I knew him but talked about how powerful he is and how dominant he is in his sport (stair racing) and running.

 

As a bodybuilder I'm a fan of high protein....as a person....I'm a fan of eating well, not necessarily high protein. I honestly believe it really depends on your sport and your interest...and of course genetics, etc. but at the end of the day if you're looking to be big you need to eat big (protein) and if you're looking to be strong and look like it.....I'm pretty convinced a moderate to high protein intake will be required.

[RobertSupreme]

Robert man, just out of curiosity have you ever went a period of time where you cut down on the protein intake or have you always consumed lots since you started bodybuilding? If you did for how long was it and what did you experience?

[ralst]

Yes he isn't as muscled as some people, but he's a long distance runner so to criticize him for this is irrelevant in my opinion.

 

I see what you mean, but in the absence of some compelling reason to do so, I wouldn't listen to someone telling me what is needed to build muscle if they have no experience doing so. He says he has too much muscle for a runner; fine, I won't argue with him, but he doesn't have near enough muscle to qualify, in my opinion, as anything other than skinny. In other words, he looks like a long-distance runner That's great if his diet works for him as a runner, but I wouldn't listen to him at all in regards to training for mass, because that's not what he does. Likewise, I wouldn't give him advice on what to eat before a long run - I have no experience at all with that.

 

My thread on protein (am I missing something here?) compliments this - the math and statistics suggest that we actually don't need to take in as much protein as thought and that the body is more than capable of using what it gets from raw food -amino acids etc.

 

My understanding of this is that much of the math and statistics is aimed at a "normal" person - not someone aiming to put on and maintain 100+kg of muscle weight.

 

There's a lot of opinions on the amount of protein ideal for weight training. A lot of it seems to come down to what works best for the individual. But so far I haven't heard of any great successes without *any* protein at all.

 

But yeah, you sound like you are on the right track regarding all this stuff - thinking and learning is where it's at man I was just voicing my own opinion about this video, I don't expect others not to do the same.

[RobertSupreme]

No worries Ralst!

 

 

I get what you're saying dude.

 

I wouldn't listen to someone telling me what is needed to build muscle if they have no experience doing so. He says he has too much muscle for a runner; fine, I won't argue with him, but he doesn't have near enough muscle to qualify, in my opinion, as anything other than skinny. In other words, he looks like a long-distance runner That's great if his diet works for him as a runner, but I wouldn't listen to him at all in regards to training for mass, because that's not what he does. Likewise, I wouldn't give him advice on what to eat before a long run - I have no experience at all with that.

 

Looks like we need a bunch of vegan bodybuilder test subjects to see what happens ha

[ralst]

Is this meant to be informative? I've only seen this video posted on other boards before so that people could make fun of it.

 

Of course the guy in the video doesn't think he "needs" protein - he's a skinny bastard. It may be fine to listen to him if you also want to be a skinny bastard. I don't, so I eat protein.

Comon man, do you call everybody "bastard" like this ? Would you like that someone calls you like that? The guy's got a shirt on, how can you tell he's skinny? He's got a bigger chest than a lot of guys who eat a hundred times more protein than he does. Of course he's not big, he's a runner and he's trying his best to be as skinny as most other runners, who eat more proteins.

 

Yes?? He's a skinny bastard. I'm a fat bastard. No big deal.

 

Anyway, it's pretty easy to tell he's skinny. But what I think of as skinny may be different than you.

 

For Example:

 

http://www.runningraw.com/photos/TimRunningRaw.jpg

Skinny Bastard

 

http://elitefts.com/images/PICTURES/yoke.jpg

Fat Bastard

[RAINRA]

Well I am not going for massive on my diet or experiment. I am going for fight club cut and good definition. I see the people at golds gym here and they look just nasty looking puffy arms no definition and just a big ball of mass. Plus people working out mainly arms and they look uneven. I think Robert has good mass and think that is a good place to be if your going for mass. But not like these muscle mags guys they look unnatural.

 

It will take time to build to where I want. That is for sure. There are many faster ways but I am not in a rush.

 

Long distance Runners are usually scrawny. Tim Vanorden eats 2000 to 2500 calories a day. That is amazing for long distance runners. Cause most think they need lots and lots of calories. He still keeps muscle even after running. I think the calorie amount is pretty much what I eat in a day. I think he has good points. Food and eating a variety of foods is what is important. Not lots of protein. I am 5'7 132 lbs. Very low body fat. It is not about weight it is about muscle to body weight and low fat. I like less fat an more muscle and not water bloated look which is all to common in my gym.

 

I think what if you instead of eating more protein powders if your lifting heavy is eat more whole foods and more of them. I mean just in a high raw meal with not a lot of nuts or extra protein food sources I made it to 74 grams of protein. That being just food. Hard work and sleep I think is the most important.

 

Here are pics of Tim. He is over 40 and again a long distance runner.

[ralst]

Well I am not going for massive on my diet or experiment. I am going for fight club cut and good definition. I see the people at golds gym here and they look just nasty looking puffy arms no definition and just a big ball of mass. Plus people working out mainly arms and they look uneven. I think Robert has good mass and think that is a good place to be if your going for mass. But not like these muscle mags guys they look unnatural.

 

It will take time to build to where I want. That is for sure. There are many faster ways but I am not in a rush.

 

Long distance Runners are usually scrawny. Tim Vanorden eats 2000 to 2500 calories a day. That is amazing for long distance runners. Cause most think they need lots and lots of calories. He still keeps muscle even after running. I think the calorie amount is pretty much what I eat in a day. I think he has good points. Food and eating a variety of foods is what is important. Not lots of protein. I am 5'7 132 lbs. Very low body fat. It is not about weight it is about muscle to body weight and low fat. I like less fat an more muscle and not water bloated look which is all to common in my gym.

 

I think what if you instead of eating more protein powders if your lifting heavy is eat more whole foods and more of them. I mean just in a high raw meal with not a lot of nuts or extra protein food sources I made it to 74 grams of protein. That being just food. Hard work and sleep I think is the most important.

 

Here are pics of Tim. He is over 40 and again a long distance runner.

 

I wish you had posted this explanation with the video to begin with It makes more sense now. As it was I was left guessing at the point of the posting.

 

Regarding Van Orden's appearance, it's just a difference of perception. You think the guys at Golds Gym look puffy and unnatural; they probably do, and in all honesty, I'd probably call them skinny as well

 

If you're 5'7" and 132 lbs, and not looking to gain muscle, then yeah, you probably don't need much protein, and a diet like Van Orden's might be optimal. I don't know, you're in a much better place to decide that than I am. But coming at it from my perspective (essentially, wanting to be relatively massive for the goal of moving relatively heavy things), his diet is not something I'd be likely to give much consideration too. I'm 250 lbs, and I consume ~75 grams of protein in a single meal. Different nutrition, for different goals, which makes sense.

 

74 grams of protein is actually more than I would think from a raw diet. Not questioning that, but just asking for a few more details if you don't mind: firstly, I guess I would need to know what "high raw" means Are you able to get that much protein from fruits/veggies? That's pretty cool.

[robert]

Robert man, just out of curiosity have you ever went a period of time where you cut down on the protein intake or have you always consumed lots since you started bodybuilding? If you did for how long was it and what did you experience?

 

Hey Robert,

 

Just wanted to make sure I didn't leave this unanswered....was away all day, at the gym for hours, running errands and having fun in this contest prep!

 

Anyway....yeah, I have gone periods of lower protein and it made me skinny, even when I still trained. I tried mostly raw for a while, 100% raw for a while, etc. It just wasn't my thing. I've also tried regular vegan diet on a lower protein intake and I just didn't get as big or strong.

 

Some people know that years ago I pounded 300 grams of protein a day and 5000+ calories a day (I charted it all and still have the records) and I was at my biggest and strongest. I just can't stomach that much food anymore these days..but still keep around 200 grams of protein a day, or slightly less to be more accurate and 3,000-4,000 calories a day.

 

I am also a believer in the idea that everyone responds differently. VeganEssentials is much bigger than me, for example..but I may eat more than he does. He doesn't need a huge intake of food to maintain muscle and strength (from what I remember from our conversations....will see him in person again in a few weeks to chat more about it). Some people like Tim, who is being referenced, puts on muscle pretty easily, I know this from hanging out with him personally...but others who eat low protein may respond poorly.

 

I think it comes down to what your goals our, what your purpose is behind your nutrient intake and how your body responds based on experimentation and experience. I bet results will be different for most people, but one thing that will be universal is that for "bodybuilding" a high protein diet will yield results for nearly anyone.

[Nathan Nearing]

I think it comes down to what your goals our, what your purpose is behind your nutrient intake and how your body responds based on experimentation and experience. I bet results will be different for most people, but one thing that will be universal is that for "bodybuilding" a high protein diet will yield results for nearly anyone.

 

Agreed. High protein works for me, and I'm confident that if anyone consumes 3000-4000 calories and about 200-250 grams of protein a day, it'll be hard not to notice a difference.

[RAINRA]

ralst - If you check my trainning log you will see I posted what I eat in a day. In the before and after section.

 

I totally agree Robert that everyone is different and reacts differently to foods. That is why I don't think everyone strives on on one diet. I just don't see that all raw is for everyone. I guess some of us like to know more of a summary of what you did and you explained it here. It seems to work for you

 

I am a smaller guy so I can't get like Arnold unless I did roids and even then I would need to have to really push my self at the gym a lot more than now. I go with what I got and what I can do. My body creates muscle how it wants to I just push it to where I want to be.

 

When are you and Lean and Green competing? I would like to see where you both are before your contest.

Edited February 18, 2009 by RAINRA

[RobertSupreme]

I totally agree Robert that everyone is different and reacts differently to foods.

 

I agree.

 

Thanks for the feedback dudes

[RAINRA]

I am just talking in general not anyone in specific.

These are just my thoughts and opinions. Not fact or proving that I am right. I am just being a skeptic with all this protein hype. And of course I am not saying your muscles don't need protein because they do. It just seem the focus is really all on protein and not other things stuff as well.

Edited February 18, 2009 by RAINRA

[RAINRA]

You will see here that protein is not the only thing talk about in this response, there are many other things on the list.

 

Dear Dr. Dave and Dr. Dee,

 

I've been too thin all my life. I am almost 18, but weigh only 133 pounds (9 stone). I've started becoming much more self-conscious of my thin body - almost nobody else I know is as thin as me.

 

I've researched some websites (www.teenbodybuilding.com, www.bodybuilding.com, www.musclegaintips.com), and they encourage eating 6 meals a day, take nutritional supplements (which I'm skeptical about), weight train, and 8 hours of sleep per night. Whey Protein was also suggested as s supplement. I'm thinking of buying a rowing machine. I really need to become bigger soon.

 

Signed,

 

Please advise about muscle mass

 

Dear Please advise about muscle mass,

 

You have the basic structure for gaining weight and sound like you have the motivation to be committed to a muscle building program. Just be sure that the six meals you eat are healthy, full of protein, and drink water often. Vitamin supplements are also important. A rowing machine alone is not adequate for building muscle mass; you will need to weight train.

 

One of your websites referenced (www.musclegaintips.com) is by Anthony Ellis, and Iron Muscle Magazine at www.IronMagazine.com provides Anthony Ellis's 10 essential tips for gaining muscle. According to Mr. Ellis, muscle mass results can be seen in about 3 weeks, but it takes about 12 weeks for full results.

 

In addition, Mr. Ellis advocates increase in eating fats, but moderation and the appropriate type of fats are key. Excellent sources of polyunsaturated fats are flaxseed oil, canola oil, soybean oil, and fish oil; good examples of monounsaturated fats are extra-virgin olive oil and mixed nuts. In brief below are some muscle gaining tips by Anthony Ellis.

 

10 ESSENTIAL MUSCLE MASS GAINING TIPS (by Anthony Ellis in IronMagazine.com, 2005)

 

1. Weight Train

 

Weight training involves the use of equipment that enables variable resistance. This resistance can come in the form of "free weights" like barbells and dumbbells, machines that use cables or pulleys to help you lift the weight and bodyweight exercises like pull-ups or dips.

 

For anyone trying to gain muscle, several things must be done. One is to train with heavy weights. Using an appropriate weight, you should only be able to do 4-8 reps. Using heavy weights and low reps puts your muscles and nervous system under much more stress, stimulating more muscle fibers, which will cause rapid muscle growth.

 

For maximum muscle gain, the focus of your workouts should consist of free weight exercises. Not machines or bodyweight exercises. This is not to say that you should not use machines or bodyweight exercises, but they should not be the focus of your training.

 

2. Eat More Calories

 

The most important thing that I cannot emphasize is that you need to eat to gain weight. You need to eat like you've never eaten before. If you are not eating enough calories, you will NEVER gain weight, no matter what you do. In order to build new muscle, you must eat more calories than your body burns off, creating what is called a caloric surplus. To gain mass, you should strive to eat around 18-20 times your bodyweight in calories. The extra calories will be used by your body to repair muscle tissue that is damaged during the heavy workouts, and to build new muscle.

 

Now, when I say eat, I do not mean just anything. All calories are not created equal. In other words, some types of calories are not equal to others for gaining muscle. For example, if I said that you need to eat 2,000 calories per day to gain weight, and you eat 4 bags of potato chips each day, do you think you would gain muscle? Not likely. The majority of your weight would be fat. Why? Because potato chips, like most processed junk food, contains empty, totally nutritionless calories. These foods do not provide you with the correct nutrient breakdown essential for gaining muscle.

 

3. Eat More Protein

 

Without protein, your body will not be able to build new muscle. Years ago, a higher carbohydrate and lower fat diet was the rage, recommended by professional bodybuilders and trainers. They claimed that this was the only way to eat for muscle gain. Unfortunately, the only people gaining muscle on that type of diet were a genetically gifted few. The rest just got fat.

 

Carbs serve mainly as energy for the body, while protein provides the necessary amino acids to build and repair muscle. For muscle growth, carbohydrates are not as essential as protein and fats. High quality protein, which the body breaks down into amino acids, should be the center point of all your meals. There are many studies that show intense exercise increases demand for amino acids, which support muscle repair and growth. To build muscle, you should try to get at least 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight.

 

Whether you believe it or not, the fact is: High protein diets build more muscle when incorporated with intense training. Low protein diets do not. Period. Only protein can build muscle. Carbohydrates and fat cannot.

 

4. Eat More Often

 

To gain weight, you will be eating a large amount of calories. Unfortunately, your body can only assimilate a certain number of calories at each meal. For our purposes, eating three meals per day is not beneficial. If you had to eat 3,000 calories per day, then you would end up eating 1,000 calories at each meal. The average person can only use a portion of those calories. The excess will be stored as fat or removed from the body.

 

To enable your body to actually assimilate and use the 3,000 calories you will ingest, you have to reduce your meal size and increase your meal frequency. Splitting your calories into smaller, more frequent portions will enable food absorption and utilization of nutrients . I always eat six meals each day, evenly spaced out at three-hour intervals.

 

My goal is to provide my body with constant nourishment throughout the day. So if it typically takes about 2.5 hours to digest most meals, want to be eating another meal just as my last meal is leaving my stomach. I do this because my body is constantly in need of nutrients to repair itself. I do a lot of damage during my workouts and completely stress my system. My body is trying to "adapt to the stress," but in order to do this, it needs consistent fuel.

 

If I ate only three meals per day, then my body would be without nutrients for about six hours between each of those meals! This is unacceptable for skinny guys. Without food, your body will quickly begin to breakdown muscle tissue for energy.

 

5. Eat More Fat

 

If you want to gain muscle mass, you must eat enough dietary fat. Dietary fats play an essential role in hormone production, which in turn is responsible for growth and strength increases. I have never gained muscle on a low fat diet, though many people still believe that eating fat makes you fat. This is absolutely false. In fact, there is a very popular muscle gain diet that been around for years, called the "Anabolic Diet" that requires you to eat only fat! Butter, bacon, and heavy cream are all on the menu. Though quite extreme, this diet does work.

 

Most people are overweight because of a diet high in simple carbohydrates, not from eating fats. If your diet is too low in fat, your body will actually make a point to store any fat it gets, because it doesn't know when it will get more. A low-fat diet will also lower testosterone levels, something we do not want when trying to gain weight. Studies have shown that dietary fat has a direct relationship with testosterone production. An increase in dietary fat intake seems to bring on an increase in testosterone levels. The inverse is also true. A decrease in dietary fat intake is usually accompanied by a decrease in free testosterone levels.

 

However, you don't want to increase your intake of saturated fats. Saturated fats are what cause disease and coronary problems. Though you will always have some saturated fats in your diet, your main focus should be to increase your intake of Essential Fatty Acids (EFAs).

 

EFAs are unsaturated fats that are necessary for thousands of biological functions throughout the body. Because they cannot be manufactured by the body, the must be provided by your diet. These fatty acids not only help increase testosterone production, but they also aid in the prevention of muscle breakdown, help to increase your HDL level (good cholesterol) and assist in hormone production. To get your recommended amount of EFA's, I recommend supplementing your diet with either Udo's Perfect Oil Blend (which combines omega- and omega-6), or Cold-Pressed Flaxseed oil (which is mostly omega-3).

 

6. Drink More Water

 

To make sure that your muscles stay hydrated, you must drink plenty of water. Dehydration can happen easily if you train hard. A dehydrated muscle, takes longer to repair itself than one sufficiently hydrated.

 

Drinking a sufficient amount of water not only increases your vascularity (more visible veins), but it will also help to quickly remove toxins from the body. Protein generates metabolic waste products that must be dissolved in water. Without enough water, the kidneys cannot efficiently remove these wastes.

 

7. Take a Multi-Vitamin

 

There are many supplements and specific muscle gain enhancing products that I recommend using in my book, but I have to remember that this is only the 10 most important elements of a successful mass program. So, I have to keep this brief and to the point. All of the other products will help, but they are not essential. So, I will only touch on two vitamins supplements: Multi-Vitamins and Antioxidants.

 

If you want to gain muscle, you must make sure that you are not deficient in any vitamin, mineral or trace element that your body needs. I know many people are going to disagree with me, but I believe that in this day, we absolutely need to supplement our diet with vitamins and minerals. I know that those who are against using vitamins are going to say that if we "just eat a balanced diet. . . ", You know the rest.

 

Well first, eating a balanced diet is easier said than done. America is the most overweight country in the world. Most people don't even know what a "balanced" diet is. Balanced with what Experts will continue to spout, "eat a balanced diet," while Americans feast on nutritionless fast food and sugar.

 

8. Take Antioxidants

 

An antioxidant like Vitamins A, C, E, Glutathione, Glutamine, and Selenium are essential in preventing free radical damage, which is accelerated after the heavy trauma of weight training. Antioxidants protect other substances by being oxidized themselves. Here's a good antioxidant blend that I also use.

 

9. Rest More Often

 

Rest is the most overlooked "skinny-guy secret". If you don't rest, you won't grow. Simple as that. Your body does not build muscle in the gym, it builds muscle while resting!

 

The key to successfully gaining weight is eating enough calories, training hard and then resting. No diet adjustments will make up for lack of rest. If you train hard in the gym, then you should be resting your muscles as much as possible. If you do not give them time to rest and repair, you will not grow. Period.

 

10. Be Consistent

 

O.K., so you want the secret to gaining muscle mass fast? Well, here it is: CONSISTENCY.

 

You can have the best diet, the best training schedule, join the best gym that has the best equipment, but without consistency it's all worthless (Ellis, 2005).

 

For more information, www.IronMagazine.com

[RAINRA]

went here to the nutrition section and just on the first page you will see that protein is the what people mainly talk about

 

Topics on nutrition section

------------------

 

 

Soy free protein powders

 

Soy/Whey Testosterone study

 

Protein powder comparative amino acid analysis

 

Lg Science: Lipotropic Protein

 

Soy soy soy, I eat a lot of soy!

 

PC Vegetable Protein

 

Ture Protein help please

 

Tasty, Non-Soy Protein Powders? Anyone?

 

More natural premium flavors over at trueprotein.com

[RAINRA]

...

Edited February 18, 2009 by RAINRA

[RAINRA]

...

[Nathan Nearing]

went here to the nutrition section and just on the first page you will see that protein is the what people mainly talk about

 

Topics on nutrition section

------------------

 

 

Soy free protein powders

 

Soy/Whey Testosterone study

 

Protein powder comparative amino acid analysis

 

Lg Science: Lipotropic Protein

 

Soy soy soy, I eat a lot of soy!

 

PC Vegetable Protein

 

Ture Protein help please

 

Tasty, Non-Soy Protein Powders? Anyone?

 

More natural premium flavors over at trueprotein.com

 

People meaning me, haha.

[robert]

Cool, I didn't know there was a photo of me and Tim around, sweet! I remember those days but don't think I have any pics on my camera from it Thanks!

[ralst]

went here to the nutrition section and just on the first page you will see that protein is the what people mainly talk about

 

I don't see what you're getting at with all these posts. You said you're not interested in gaining muscle - so why all the focus on the protein intake of people who are? This is a bodybuilding & fitness forum, not a "how to not eat protein & be small" forum. I know this is the General Discussion board, but the nutrition section is obviously geared towards people trying to put on mass. I don't see the problem with that.

 

The "article" you posted, despite starting off with a silly statement like:

 

"According to Mr. Ellis, muscle mass results can be seen in about 3 weeks, but it takes about 12 weeks for full results."

 

I don't even know what that means. Full results? Does that mean your muscles will be at their biggest possible size after 12 weeks? Or what? It's meaningless.

 

Anyways, it goes on to state:

 

"Whether you believe it or not, the fact is: High protein diets build more muscle when incorporated with intense training. Low protein diets do not. Period."

 

So I'm not really sure where you're coming from, or what the point of the article/pictures is supposed to be. It's really hard to try and interpret the meaning behind some of the stuff you're posting, because you just include an image or passages from an exterior article, without providing the reasons behind your posting it.

[RAINRA]

Hey Robert I have my sources ...pictures if you look hard enough you will find them your welcome.

 

My bad Ralst, your right I did not explain. I meant to show the article not to agree with it but to show that there are many elements to building a body besides protein, I think protein has become an obsession of bodybuilders and people are not focusing on variety of foods and and nutrients, hard work and rest. Protein does not build muscle you do. I think the focus should be less on protein and more on all around nutrition and workout. Because they all work together. That article is just a standard response experience bodybuilders give to newbies. The pics were for people to see and for Robert to see.

 

Nathan Nearing

I wasn't pointing out you It just I would like people to be like yo lets talk vitamins to build muscle, or nutrients to build muscle or minerals that I need to build muscle... it always seem like protein is the only thing people talk about in relations to diet and how many people even know that answer to that.

 

 

It is like calcium you can have all the calcium you want in your diet but if you don't have vital nutrients that work with calcium the calcium would never absorb.

[Nathan Nearing]

Nathan Nearing

I wasn't pointing out you

 

Haha, I know. I just had a good laugh seeing two of my topics there.