Guest Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 You'd have to remove a clique of at least 6 people IMO. I don't care either way. I found an omni strength training forum. I'm not looking for an online vegan social networking site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluck Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Dear God didnt mean to start WWIII!!!!!!!!!!All I have to say is Jimi has definatetly proven himself and I consider him a friend which is the only reason I was talking shit, to give him a hard time. Everyone else what the hell? Take a freaking chill pill and shut the hellup, or take out the agression on the weights. In fact, why dont yall shut up and squat. Post videos, we'll critque... Octo already gave me shit for the ones I messaged him today lol. But as soon as I figure the links out, and get onto a non work computer Ill post them, then everyone can tear my form apart to give yall someone new to pick on. Point made. Jimi is competing not powerlifting now. Do his legs look good? In fact do they look better than 99% of the peoples legs on here... Then thats the point, if he shuts up and squats ten pound and his legs look good and better than yours then he's still 5 steps ahead of everyone on here talking crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralst Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Cheers Octo. I have this intense hatred for smith machines that gets the better of me sometimes I'm not telling you to do it any differently, but I think the general advice on whether to use bar pads or not is: don't, as they tend to create an altered and less stable bar position. Much like smith squats are usually recommended against because they force the body into an unnatural movement pattern. I think part of the misunderstanding on my part was that your video didn't come with much explanation, so I immediately jumped to thinking you were advising people to not only squat on a smith machine but to use a bar pad as well. And of course that's just the absolute most terrible thing in the world, as 4X4 is obviously communicating effectively and with great restraint (sarcasm)Keep the comments and healthy criticism coming! He is in such a better mood when he gets back from the gym after reading a thread like this. I'm not sure if this is meant seriously or not? I would prefer to stay away from the thread at this point, but I ask because I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone, and hopefully I didn't. As I began to mention earlier, if I had known 4X4 was going to start flinging insults around, I wouldn't have said anything at all about the squat video. And whatever I think of the squat video has no reflection on Octo personally, or his training, as obviously what he does works for him very, very well, and I think everyone on the site (even 4X4 ) is aware of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeganEssentials Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 I don't think you have anything to worry about, Ralst. We all know you're a good guy Yeah, 4x4 flew off the handle on this one. A shame my novel-length reply got deleted when the post was pulled while I responding (curse you, mods! ) Here's the thing that people who are coming here for the first times need to understand (and this goes for ANY lifting-related board) - we're all lifting for some purpose or other, and while everyone wants to believe that they're doing it for the "best" reasons, it doesn't really matter why so long as we're doing it. 4x4 was hung up on the "non-functional muscle" thing as some sort of jab, but fact of the matter is, it's functional for whatever you choose to do with it. Octo is a BB'er - he doesn't need to squat 700 lbs. down to the ground to excel at what he does. Didn't Octo just do very well in his first competition because of this "non-functional muscle" that 4x4 was talking about? Seems to me that it had a lot more function than he gave credit to, based upon the results... Would I do smith machine squats? Not for what I want to accomplish, but if they work for Octo when he does them, so be it. I want to get stronger again more than anything else, but do I choose to move heavy crap all day long because I can? Nope. Does that make my muscle non-fuctional? In some ways, yes. Some people need to get over these weird hang-ups about wanting to feel like they're at the top of the chain because they think there's only one reason to hit the weights - there are numerous reasons, and just because we don't all have the same purpose doesn't make any reason better or invalidate another person's reasons. I don't mean to always come off like I need to be the mediator when these kinds of things pop up, but damn, they just get so redundant after a while. What good does it do to be the shit-stirrer when we should be finding ways to further each other through sharing info, having constructive discussions, etc.? The thread started out well enough, but when someone starts getting personal and makes it one big pissing contest, it's always going to go downhill. Some people just can't accept any way other than what they have come to believe is the best and only way, and so be it, they'll find themselves isolated from everyone else sooner or later. Me, I'll continue to get along with everyone who trains regardless of whether you're deadlifting 800 or are struggling with a pair of 2 lb. DBs. If you're lifting for your own well-being, more power to you regardless of your motives or the ways you do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octopussoir Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 xPhilx, Ralst, and VeganEssentials: thank you for clarifying your posts! My main reason for posting my video was to point out that there is a pad for the bar if your neck hurts. I have female clients that complain about the bar (every single time) if the pad isnt on there. I love this board and accept everyone who comes on here, but felt an "octo" bashing by certain persons wasnt cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcina Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Whoa.. I came in here to talk about squats and found a battle going on! Lol Everybody take a deep breath and chant "Om Nama Shivaya"... That's what I do when I'm upset. Anyways, I just wanted to mention I started doing ATG a.k.a Ass to Grass squats. They're tough but I really wanna build strength in my legs. Strength and of course, size. My legs are very lean. Aluck mentioned she can squat quite a bit, so I'd like some tips from a fellow lifting laydee, but advice from the guys would be great too! The only bad thing I'll say about the Smith Machine is that I feel like I'm gonna pass out when I use it.. So therefore I don't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I've heard that ass to the grass squats negatively erode your knee joints for only more modest gains in leg development. These kind of ideas go back and forth. Anyone with an informed opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobsteriffic Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I've read that ATG squats are great as they really work your glutes/hams as well as your quads. But I can't get down that low due to flexibility issues. Not even with just the bar. I can only make it to parallel, maybe slightly lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeganDrew Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 The vast majority of form videos I've watched on squats say to go to parallel and no further, but then there are a few people like 4x4 who say that parallel is the most stressful position for your knee and therefore you should pass parallel and it produces better gains anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeganEssentials Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I've heard that ass to the grass squats negatively erode your knee joints for only more modest gains in leg development. These kind of ideas go back and forth. Anyone with an informed opinion? Actually, it's been shown that anything short of parallel creates greater stress on the knees, and that parallel or deeper is ideal for keeping your knees in the best state possible. I've seen it throughout the years both in my trainer's manuals, Pure Power magazine (which is a lot of scientific analysis of weight training and such), MILO magazine (where one guy in his 50s went from barely being able to extend his leg to rock-bottom squats with 250 lbs. in 3 months by going deep), as well as other places over the years. When I come across a source again that I link to, I'll post details here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_flaco Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 xPhilx, Ralst, and VeganEssentials: thank you for clarifying your posts! My main reason for posting my video was to point out that there is a pad for the bar if your neck hurts. I have female clients that complain about the bar (every single time) if the pad isnt on there. I love this board and accept everyone who comes on here, but felt an "octo" bashing by certain persons wasnt cool."persons"? If you exempt xPhilx, Ralst and VE, I think it was only myself and 4x4 that commented. I don't think I bashed anyone Regarding smith machine squats, I made some good gains last year when mixing up barbell squatting with squatting on a machine. Not a smith machine, one of the ones with a lever arm. I'd go heavy on the barbell squat for a single, then load up the machine for 3 or 4 sets of 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeganEssentials Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Regarding smith machine squats, I made some good gains last year when mixing up barbell squatting with squatting on a machine. Not a smith machine, one of the ones with a lever arm. I'd go heavy on the barbell squat for a single, then load up the machine for 3 or 4 sets of 5. I will agree, some of the squat machines out there aren't half bad (did I actually say that? ) The Icarian plate-loaded squat machine at the Ballys I train at is actually quite nice - facing inward on it has a feel that's not too unlike a barbell squat, and I can really put extra work into focusing on using my glutes and hamstrings for assistance with it, helping bring up my weaker areas. I won't dismiss all machines - just the majority of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Thanks Veganessentials! It seems like every few years opinions change about which exercises do and don't rip up your joints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeganDrew Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Thanks for the relevant opinions, everyone! I will be benefiting from them soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeganEssentials Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Thanks for the relevant opinions, everyone! I will be benefiting from them soon! Excellent! Best move you could make if you want to get bigger and stronger the fastest way possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcina Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I've heard that ass to the grass squats negatively erode your knee joints for only more modest gains in leg development. These kind of ideas go back and forth. Anyone with an informed opinion? Actually, it's been shown that anything short of parallel creates greater stress on the knees, and that parallel or deeper is ideal for keeping your knees in the best state possible. I've seen it throughout the years both in my trainer's manuals, Pure Power magazine (which is a lot of scientific analysis of weight training and such), MILO magazine (where one guy in his 50s went from barely being able to extend his leg to rock-bottom squats with 250 lbs. in 3 months by going deep), as well as other places over the years. When I come across a source again that I link to, I'll post details here Yeah same here. I don't feel the stress on my knees squatting deep as I do going parallel.. Unless of course I'm doing it wrong. When I first started it hurt one knee so I widened my stance a little and pointed the toes outward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluck Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Squat videos on my myspace - not literate enough to get them on here!!! http://www.myspace.com/lilmissluck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xphilx Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 what are you trying to do there? it is ok if you have knee problems and can't go for full squats but the ROM you're doing there is simply useless... it reminds of the l&g quarter squats we had here a while ago. i don't want to sound rude or offensive or something like that but i'm always trying to be honest, so i have to say that the only thing that looks worse than your "squats" is your "bench press". you really need to work on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluck Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Lol was waiting for that. Thanks. Got an injured elbow and a knee I just had drained.. Both bad. Lol I do light weight and full ROM too, but wanted to get video to take the heat off other "non properly squatting squatters" Lol. And by the way it works great for non functional, but pretty muscle. Thanks for the critque though. lol I do know how, just wanted to give some people crap... The bench press is decently deep though, need to get a side view video of it, and some vitamin A (advil ) before hand. Well off to the gym, Gotta do Quads, Ick.And by the way L& G look pretty damn good, so dont make me get on that topic. Friends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xphilx Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 The bench press is decently deep though no, it's not. go down to the chest or forget about it. Friends? sure. like i said i'm just honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralst Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I also am willing to be friends with squatters of all depths But I have to agree with xphilx. If you feel these limited ranges of motions have a benefit to you, then have at it. But I do object to someone taking what is hardly the beginnings of a squat at that weight and claiming to be able to squat 315 lbs - if you want to say that, I guess it doesn't really matter, but I feel I should at least let you know that you haven't squatted 315lbs...or benched 185. I can pick up a yoke (strongman implement) loaded to 700lb - the range of motion on that is about the same as your squat, but in no way does that translate to my being able to squat 700lbs. As far as injuries go, how is loading yourself up with what I guess is well over double the weight you can actually squat (to depth), and then walking with it/slightly bending the knees supposed to be better for your joints than full range of motion with a manageable weight? With these heavy walkouts you also run the risk, despite the guy standing behind you, of sinking a bit too far than you can recover from - and once you hit that point, your knees and the rest of you are going to have to endure a negative rep with 315lbs. I speak from experience, having done just that a year or two ago Same goes with bench - doing a few inches of the top (and easiest) portion of the range of motion with a weight that is too heavy for you is just asking for an injury, and of questionable training benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeganEssentials Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I'll start by saying that it makes my heart sing just to see a woman with 315 on her back since it's a rare sight, even if she's not going all the way down to the basement with it But, I will concur, it's going to be a lot harder on the knees doing partials with that weight when it would be better rehab to cut the weight in half (or possibly more) and do below-parallel squats with it. If you're working around a knee problem, overloaded partials won't be ideal for making things better - definitely focus on lighter, deep squats and working in a full ROM if you want to improve any knee issues vs. exacerbate them. I still believe that heavy partials have their place (I think I was the sole defender of L&G's partials video ), but when it comes to getting past knee issues, they're best left off the books for a while until things are back to normal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruz Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Im merely posting videos not trying to show how big my penis is.Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruz Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Squat videos on my myspace - not literate enough to get them on here!!! http://www.myspace.com/lilmissluck Was that guy grabbing your tits when you were "squatting"? I prefer to use one plate and pass on the tit grabbing..unless of course the guy is really hot! Oh also while I'm here, just like to say that I actually like smith squats because you can put your feet infront of the bar and hit your quads more..also there's nothing like split squats on the smith machine for hitting your ass! you just can't safely load as much weight when doing free weight split squats..well I can't because I have occasionally lost my balance and I wouldn't rist it! Also, on the smith machine your posture is more upright focusing more of the work on your ass Also, some of us here work without a spotter and so a smith machine is a safe option. Additionally in my gym there isn't a squat rack so I'm always scared to go for that last, most important rep..apart from on the smith machine.I still do full free weight squats, but with less weight and generally, sumo squats, because like many women, I find them far more comfortable and if i don't open my legs wide I can't get down to the floor without bending too far forward.... I think it must be the difference in hip formation or something.I don't know what all this macho bullshit is about how much weight you use..some of the best legs I have ever seen were on guys who used relatively low weights when squatting, a full ROM and high intensity. Also, as regards the ladies here..well I'm pretty strong for a natural bodybuilder and I can't put more than 30kilos on the bar if I wanna get back up when I get my ass to the ground. So you can call me weak..but i've still got nice quads..I'd really like to see videos of what the ladies can really squat (5-6 reps ass to grass) because I'm starting to feel inadequate here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryStella Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 RUZ - I loved your reply that was great stuff! I do ATG squats with a spotter at heavy weight. I also take a wider more sumo stance with toes outward because it is easier for me to get all the way down that way. I've never had knee problems. Also I agree with you on the smith machine. I don't use them because I am not a big fan of machines but if I didn't have a spotter I would agree with your it is much safer. I also found working on front squats helped me stop the tendency to lean forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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