Lack of cuts/definition in female vegan fitness models?

[FitnessOver40]

Hi, I'm new here, have pre-ordered Robert Cheeke's book, & contemplating the vegan (or close to vegan) bodybuilding/fitness approach. I'm female and about to turn 42, and my goal is to look like a fitness/figure athlete, with very defined & visible muscles.

 

My concern is that in all the photos of *female* vegan bodybuilders & fitness/figure athletes (i.e. Denise Nicole), I see a disappointing lack of definition. They look slim & healthy, but frankly, rather smooth. In the male vegan athletes, I don't see this as much - although I do notice that male vegan bodybuilders seem in general smaller than even natural, non-vegan ones.

 

However, I strongly suspect vegan is overall a much healthier lifestyle & diet, so I'm torn.

 

Can someone speak to this issue of lack of definition for female fitness/figure athletes? Are there examples of some out there who DO have the definition I seek?

 

Thank you in advance!

Edited March 2, 2010 by FitnessOver40

[SeaSiren]

Hello, I would be more than happy to answer your questions. Are you asking about models or fitness, or figure. Drug free (polygraphed AND drug tested) or the non-drug tested and polygraphed athletes or competitors and which divisions?

 

I got into it for my health and am not on any supplements at all, not even creatine. All supplements in my instance adversely effected my health which of course defeated the purpose. In the modeling industry a lot of muscle on a female can and will effect your marketability .... I was told point blank if i gained anymore size I would limit what I would be able to do. Also, your every day female felt more muscle was masculine and a huge deterrent in pursuing weight lifting, thinking they would look too masculine if the were to lift. I choose to keep a slimmer athletic body, more of an aerobics instructor look (which I am, lol) so to speak.

 

Therefore, I do not and frankly could not compete in other organizations. The look is most certainly different, and sounds as if that is the look you would like to pursue.

 

Is the look you are seeking obtainable on a plant based diet? Absolutely! Your approach to supplementation and training would be set to achieve those goals.

 

I would love to see you reach your goals. Start a journal so we can follow your progress and cheer you on!

[strawberryriddick]

Hiya Fitness! As a fellow femme, I'm going to say that I echo your observation! When I look at the profiles on veganbodybuilding.com, I see the guys with hard muscles and deep cuts, and then I see the, well, rather soft-bodied female counterparts. They aren't big and muscular, or even small and very muscular. I didn't make a thread like this because I didn't want to step on toes, but do know you aren't the only one who thought about it!

 

Myself, I'm going for big. Not necessarily cut, though that'd be nice. Just training to get bigger and stronger. That's always been my goal. I see in magazines that "advocate" women lifting weights, but in reality they're just wanting to use muscles as a fashion accessory.

 

 

Anyway, the thing you must remember is that not all people want to train to get big and cut, and even fewer women want to. Since vegans make up a small percentage of the population, that number of vegan women who want to get big and cut is going to be...well...it's going to be hard to find! It's all about training. I have no trouble adding muscle as a vegan woman. It's how you train and eat that makes the difference. Don't look at those pics and think that something about being female and vegan makes you smooth and less muscular than if you were to eat meat.

[FitnessOver40]

Thank you for your reply - I'm assuming this is Denise Nicole?

 

I think you look fantastic, so I hope you weren't insulted in any way, it's just that I'm aiming for a slightly different look.

 

But to be clear, it's not "size" I'm inquiring about, it's definition. I would like to be slim, as you are, but also very defined. Kind of like Madonna was a couple years ago (currently, I think she's gone a little too far...)

 

Are there potential health consequences to taking creatine? I'll contact you privately if preferred. Thank you!

[FitnessOver40]

Thanks Strawberryriddick! I appreciate your reply of support! Good to know I'm not alone.

[strawberryriddick]

But to be clear, it's not "size" I'm inquiring about, it's definition. I would like to be slim, as you are, but also very defined.

Definition is all about body fat percentage. Even the scrawniest kid who never touched a weight in his life can have a 6 pack because his body fat is so low. To make that extra definition "pop," you do want to be solid with your training program to ensure you have something more than just skin and bones when you ditch the fat. It's a combination, really, for women since we don't have as much natural mass (muscle mass that just exists on the body without working out) as our male counterparts.

 

Are there potential health consequences to taking creatine?

Aside from protein powder, creatine is the longest-researched supplement available. It's also incredibly safe. Every creature on the planet that has muscle mass produces its own creatine...even us. Supping with creatine allows you to increase maximal performance in the anaerobic window...definitely a good thing!

[SeaSiren]

Fitness - none taken at all. I took your question as a genuine inquiry. Many women will go on a bulking and cutting regime in order to make quicker gains. There are also time tested supplements to help you achieve your goals quicker. Creatine, as per stated above, is used extensively in BBing and deemed quite safe and recommended (for most). It did not deem well with me, however I am pretty well one of the very few.

[strawberryriddick]

It did not deem well with me, however I am pretty well one of the very few.

Which reminds me of my ultimate point: always listen to the body!

[seitan_man]

Check out Marzia Prince on the profiles section of this site. If that is not a fantastic, defined female physique then I don't know what is.

[strawberryriddick]

Check out Marzia Prince on the profiles section of this site. If that is not a fantastic, defined female physique then I don't know what is.

Some fitness competitors:

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3067/2636086771_4ab6241ed5.jpg

http://tour.ftvideo.com/content/genex/contests/2006/emerald//_/ecup5354.jpg

 

Too big? Here are some from figure:

 

http://www.fitnessatlantic.com/images/figure-competition.jpg

http://tour.ftvideo.com/content/genex/contests/2006/emerald//_/ecup5354.jpg

http://figureathlete.tmuscle.com/img/photos/2008/08-FIG075-figureathlete/image001.jpg

 

 

Don't get me wrong, the ladies are gorgeous on this site and Ms. Prince is stunning...but the question here was about definition. It's the same with me. I train to get bigger and stronger, but I'm always smaller than I think I should be.

[Guest]

I think the reason behind vegan bodybuilders not being as big as non-vegans (although I don't think the difference is all that big) is that since there are so few of them we just haven't yet seen the best. After all, genetics play a big role in this game. Just give it time.

[beforewisdom]

A lot of vegans are also "natural" body builders. You just aren't going to get as big as the Mr./Mrs. Olympia behemoths without drugs.

[seitan_man]

These guys are natural bodybuilders and are pretty huge:

 

http://www.bnbf.co.uk/pro_nigel.html

 

 

I wonder what it is about animal protein that enables such growth compared with vegetable protein?

[Jason X]

Call it a very unscientific guess, but probably the same reason that non athlete vegans are generally smaller than the general non thlete public.

 

I'll blame the growth hormones in the furries they eat.

 

gross.

 

just like eating meat is gross. And perhaps it's totally worth it to be a little smaller than you could be, without inflicting suffering on animals for vanity. (not directed at anyone. just sayin')

[FitnessOver40]

Strange, I am 'subscribed' to this thread, but I only received email notification on the first 2 replies. I just logged in and saw the rest.

 

Thank you all for your very helpful replies! What you've said makes a lot of sense. I'll continue w/ my exploration of vegan fitness & bodybuilding. It certainly is a select subgroup, indeed.

Edited March 10, 2010 by FitnessOver40

[FitnessOver40]

Oops, I was able to change my password, never mind on that!

 

Still learning my way around here...

[FitnessOver40]

Check out Marzia Prince on the profiles section of this site. If that is not a fantastic, defined female physique then I don't know what is.

 

I Googled Marzia Prince. She is beautiful & fit, but still appears quite smooth to me.

 

I'm aiming closer to the look of the competitor photos that strawberryriddick posted in this thread. However I doubt they are vegan... (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

I really appreciate this woman's very defined physique, but she is most definitely NOT vegan: http://www.bunklers.com

 

So, my search for role models continues.

[Vegan Joe]

I'd say she's more skinny than muscular. Low body fat is what's giving her muscles definition.

[FitnessOver40]

Fair enough, but is that low body fat due to the fact that she can control her carb intake better as a non-vegan? Just asking, because that's my biggest concern about going vegan - difficulty in managing carbs. Many vegan proteins seem to be also bound together with carbs, so less control in managing protein/carb ratios.

 

Here are more pics of her. I personally find her plenty muscular, but I realize everyone has slightly different standards, so it's a matter of opinion:

 

http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/ChickenTuna/more.php?section=progresspics

[Vegan Joe]

Actually the only thing you need to control to keep a low body fat ratio is total calories.

You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant Wheat gluten is 80% protein

[Marcina]

I totally know what you mean. I always wondered "Can I, as a natural female vegan bodybuilder get cut?"

 

I think estrogen plays a big role in how that "smoothness" is. Also the fact that, there really aren't a lot of hardcore female vegan bodybuilders around. That is, women who lift for the sake of competing and getting as muscular and ripped as possible! Not to mention, vegans go the natural route and many won't take supplements (fat burners, steroids, creatine, whatever)

 

The "smoothness" is itself, a natural look. Women are meant to have more bodyfat for reproductive reasons. If a woman does get that cut, muscular look, its usually when the bodyfat is lower than what is required to stay healthy. Although it's a nice look for competition

[strawberryriddick]

Fitness, the issue of carbs is...well...carbs get a bad reputation. Omnivorous bodybuilders are returning to carbs again because they find it keeps up not only the energy levels, but also makes the muscle look great.

 

For me, when I was losing weight (fat weight...was gaining muscle), I was an omnivore and eating double the carbs as protein.

 

As Marcina said, it's harder for women to lose body fat, vegan or otherwise, because we're "supposed to" have fat. It's a special kind of dieting that you need to do coupled with a shit ton of cardio. Low carbs can help here, but you can cycle them as well. Most vegetables are low-carb, and things like tofu, nuts, nut butters, oils, seasoning, unsweetened milks, protein powders, and avocado are also low-carb. Get yourself some shirutaki and you have delicious, super low-carb/cal noodles for variety.

[Guest]

Fitness, the issue of carbs is...well...carbs get a bad reputation. Omnivorous bodybuilders are returning to carbs again because they find it keeps up not only the energy levels, but also makes the muscle look great.

 

For me, when I was losing weight (fat weight...was gaining muscle), I was an omnivore and eating double the carbs as protein.

 

As Marcina said, it's harder for women to lose body fat, vegan or otherwise, because we're "supposed to" have fat. It's a special kind of dieting that you need to do coupled with a shit ton of cardio. Low carbs can help here, but you can cycle them as well. Most vegetables are low-carb, and things like tofu, nuts, nut butters, oils, seasoning, unsweetened milks, protein powders, and avocado are also low-carb. Get yourself some shirutaki and you have delicious, super low-carb/cal noodles for variety.

 

AFAIK and IME, as long as appropriate caloric, protein and EFA intakes are set, it doesn't seem to matter whether you fill the rest with carbs or fats - you'll lose the same amount of bodyfat. The only reason I can see for ever going low(er)-carb is if your insulin sensitivity is low and you just don't feel/perform well on high(er)-carb diets. Also, some people say that they feel less hungry on high(er)-fat, so that might be another consideration. But physiologically, there doesn't seem to be any real-world difference and research strongly supports this.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, though.