USOBBA Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 As a newbie to the vegan bodybuilding forum, I wanted to find out why the vegan "lifestyle" is so left-wing. I mean no disrespect to any of you in making that statement, but its simply my honest feeling. I am a conservative, yet I dont feel drawn to the more extreme elements of the vegan lifestyle (other than the food) that I saw/witnessed in Seattle (when I lived there) such as Marxism, anti-Semitism, support of terrorism, anti-war (protests), etc. While watching the anti-war marchers several "vegan" protestors marched past me shouting anti-Israel, anti-Semitic slogans. Isnt hatred, racism and bigotry of any stripe condemned anymore or do vegans get a pass on this? Thanks. -M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Interesting question. My friend and I were just talking about this last night. I think in general, vegans tend to have more left-wing views, but we try to encourage people everywhere to be vegan. I don't think it's a political thing, but a compassion and respect thing. I'm sure others will have a more detailed answer. Perhaps we'll get quite the debate going. Welcome, by the way! Another Texan! We have more people from Texas than anywhere else I think we all feel differently about politics, but I'd say most vegans would be left-wing liberals, or at least lean that way. Vegans tend to care more about the environment then most people and try to see a big picture of sustainability and what directions we're moving toward and perhaps where we should be headed to sustain life on Earth. Interesting topic though, thanks for bringing it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USOBBA Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Robert: I was not expecting that type of reply! Thanks for being open, accommodating and sincere. The response to such a question (given directly to vegans/vegetarians, etc.) that i received in the past was physical violence. A (lady) vegan in Seattle tried to hit me when I asked her a question. (Interestingly, she was wearing a Palestinian kafeyieh -- awarded to PLO Terrorists for carrying out "strikes" against "human targets" inside Israel). She replied with with shouts and curses ... I don't hold this as central to all vegans, but mainly to those who are extreme left-wing types. As a former police officer and military veteran (who is pro-gun and pro-war > when the need arises) I simply am unable to change the way I "think" regardless how acceptable it may be to the left or right. I am probably more apopleptic against the right than anyone else but thought I would pose the question. Thanks Robert! -M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willpeavy Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Hey Mick, I'm pro-Israel. And according to political tests I'm moderate to slight left on economics. There are people on here from all over the spectrum. There's a regular on here, offence74, who leans right economically all the way, and there are others who lean just as far left. So there are vegans from both sides. I think the ones who go out and protest may be more visible to you though, and may be why you got the impression that so many lean towards Marxism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I'm libertarian...certainly not left wing. There is a website, www.conservativeveggie.com you might want to check out, but dont forget about this forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odidnetne Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 I think in general, vegans tend to have more left-wing views Well, they don't call it "Meat and potatoes conversatism" for nothing. Yeah though, I think there's people from all over the spectrum too. I tend to move a little more to the left about some things, especially about the enviornment though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compassionategirl Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 As a newbie to the vegan bodybuilding forum, I wanted to find out why the vegan "lifestyle" is so left-wing. I mean no disrespect to any of you in making that statement, but its simply my honest feeling. I am a conservative.... Hey USOBBA, You might be very interested then in picking up a book written by a conservative politician, former speech writer to Bush, Matthew Scully. Perhaps you have heard of him? Read his Dominion: The Power of Man, the Suffering of Animals, and the Call to Mercy. It is a really good read and it is obvious that it is written from a conservative lens. And I want to thank you for coming on here and giving vegans a chance to answer your questions without pre-judging us all based on downright rude vegans that smack you merely for asking a question in a respectful manner. Who does that???????????????? (I assume your question wasnt rude or offensive). Sorry that your only interactions with vegans so far have been less than pleasant. Many of us though our actually kind, compassionate and caring people. Fortunately, I havent met one single racist vegan. Certainly racism isnt tolerated here at VB&F (nor is anti-vegan propoganda). As far as my ideological orientation, I loathe animal exploitation and am hardcore into advocating for animal rights. My motivation - what compels me - is empathy. I put myself in the shoes of animals that are drowned alive in scalding water for chicken wings, or animals that are denied their own mothers milk for humans to drink, and I am morally outraged. And, no, by "animal rights" I dont mean that I want to give cows the right to vote. Some people have actually asked me that if you could believe it! On many other issues (except environmentalism) I am not that leftist at all, but we leave those for another day. Some people have even described me as anti-Feminist, and accused me of setting the Feminist movement back 50 years Anyway, welcome. By the way have you seen this emoticon yet? It's my favourite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveliberate Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 (edited) Hello & Welcome Michael! Interesting topic that you bring up... Personally, I've had almost the opposite experience by being on this & similar forums. While I dont consider or label myself / my politics as "left" (just please don't call me a "liberal"!), I realize most folks probably would and I assumed that most vegans would be fairly like-minded. Now, I'm realizing that besides being vegan, mostly "white" and largely from middle-class backgrounds - we tend to be a fairly diverse bunch... I don't think being vegan is or should be exclusive to any social or political group and I hope more and more folks from all backgrounds go vegan. What were the "anti-Israel, anti-Semitic slogans" you encountered? I assume you realize that not most folks who oppose Israel and/or it's government are not anti-Semitic, and that many are Jewish themselves? How do define "extreme left-wing types"? What do you mean by "pro-war" exactly? I'm happy to see anouther vegan identify themselves as "pro-gun" and that we at least we agree on that much! Though I prefer to say that I support our human right to armed self-defense, or that I'm pro-choice about the private ownership and use of guns... By the way, I was "raised" mostly in Texas myself and it's awesome to hear that there are so many Texan Vegans! Edited May 3, 2006 by loveliberate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compassionategirl Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 One last thing, to all: It annoys me to no end when people, even vegans, describe veganism or compassion to animals as a "political " issue. My response is always the same: when it comes to burning a cute cuddly puppy alive, it is animal cruelty simpliciter, a matter solely and entirely of human decency; but when we happen to like the taste of the animal that we are torturing, or paying somebody else to torture, the issue all of a sudden becomes "political"? kindness to animals isnt "political". It isnt left wing nor is it right wing. It is common human decency. It is the civilized and the evolved thing to do. That is my perspective of it. Did I mention that this is my favourite emoticon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compassionategirl Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Robert: I was not expecting that type of reply! Thanks for being open, accommodating and sincere. ... Thanks Robert! -M ya, Mr. Cheeke is one the most genuinely nicest people currently on the planet. I dont think he has a malicious bone in his body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveliberate Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Compassionategirl, I agree with you fully. I'm undecided on the emoticon though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compassionategirl Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Compassionategirl, I agree with you fully. I'm undecided on the emoticon though... Which emoticon? This emoticon? Yup, this is definitely my fav emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offense74 Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Hey I would consider myself to be an almost libertarian.The reason that you find most vegans to be left are two-fold:1. The left is louder. Has always been and always will be. It doesn't meen that there are more of them than right-wing.2. The connection to capitalism. Capitalism according to the extreme left is stealing time from workers and accumulate it into profit. The same goes for animals. You use an animal for profit.Libertarians and right-wingers use other retorics and instead talks about animals being individuals and should therefore have rights.In my experience there are alot of animal welfarists in the pro-capitalist arena. Since the belief is that animals can't be held responsible for their actions most are specicists and not animal rightists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarz Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 (edited) Hi USOBBA (Interestingly, she was wearing a Palestinian kafeyieh -- awarded to PLO Terrorists for carrying out "strikes" against "human targets" inside Israel). A kafiyah is not Palestinian - it is a traditional arab scarf, worn all over the Middle East, and has been worn long before the current troubles in Gaza and the West Bank. It is multi-functional- providing protection against the sun, wind and cold. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keffiyeh 'the checked scarf that has covered that part of the world's men for centuries..... In the Middle East, of course, it is most commonly worn as a man's headdress, fastened with a circular agal cord and left draped over the shoulders, or rolled up in a turban shape..... "Here, it's traditional status as if you wear a suit in Europe," he says. "It means that you are mature and self-confident. I wear it every day and started wearing it when I was 14 years old." - http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/01/19/opinion/rscarf.php Lot's of people wear them, including me:http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/Tarz77/holiday8.jpg By wearing a kafiyah I am not neccesarily pro-Palestanian and anti-Israel. I don't deny that kafiyah's are worn by Palestanain sympathisers, but not exclusively so. It makes a nice scarf and I think they look good too. Are the victims of Isreali strikes inside Palestine not human targets as well? Edited May 3, 2006 by Tarz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarz Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Anyway, in answer to your original question, it does seem that most vegans are of a left-wing persuasion, or maybe they are just more vocal than the centrist and conservative vegans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 anti-Semitism, support of terrorism You're kind of throwing everything in the 'left-wing" pot here, IMO. I dont'consider anti-Semitism or support of terrorism left-wing or liberal. I agree with you that hatred and oppression of any kind is counter to the compassionate underpinnings of ethical vegans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarz Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 anti-Semitism, support of terrorism You're kind of throwing everything in the 'left-wing" pot here, IMO. I dont'consider anti-Semitism or support of terrorism left-wing or liberal. I agree Kathryn. Anti-semitism is also right-wing, some would argue more so. I have difficulty with the terms terrorism/terrorist nowadays, especially the way the US media, and sadly much of the US public too, labels anyone a terrorist all too freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finbarrio Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Hi USOBBA-Welcome, and great questions. Reminds me of the dinner conversation at my parents' house this weekend. Vegans should not get a pass on anything, I don't think. I sometimes feel uncomfortable with the label "vegan" because it does carry with it some predjudices that aren't necessarily true. Indeed, as you've seen from these replies, there is no consistent political or social dogma behind veganism other than the belief in not eating/using animals. Therefore, when speaking in non-vegan circles, I just refer to my DIET as vegan so I'm not immediately prejudged by the people to whom I'm speaking. To echo loveliberate's point on anti-Israel/anti-semitism...I subscribe to neither. However, I feel that the US foreign policy has catered to Israel's interests too often and continues to do so at the peril of our brave troops. I believe that aspect of the US foreign policy has caused a huge amount of resentment towards the US - not only in the middle east, but across the world. I also feel that there has been an atmosphere created in the US whereby anytime someone criticizes Israel in any way, they are automatically labeled as anti-semitic (whereas, if you criticize France, you're considered a patriot). Finally, if I had to label myself (and I would do so reluctantly), I'd choose "compassionate" and "sensible", as I would for most of the other people in this particular forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USOBBA Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 I was struck senseless by the replies by everyone ... and must admit that I was a bit amazed at my own discrimination against vegans! What can I say? As a conservative I have been, at times, hyper-sensative and must admit that as I read each reply each of you posted, I was blown away by your openness, sensitivity and sincerity (as I was with Robert's post). When I lived in Seattle and returned home to Houston in 2004, I carried a bit of the "anti-anti-war" bias with me and judged everyone according to that standard ... I hope I did not come across as a complete wacko! If I did, or my comments were offensive, my apologies. I certainly was not prepared by all of your kindness to my post(s) and must admit it! I was also wrong about the arab head scarf ... I guess I had seen it enough in the anti-war protests that I put one and two together and decided it equaled five. I am still fervently a Zionist (in the good sense) and pro-Israel - and realize the injustices against the Palestinians, but realize that we all have our beleifs and live accordingly. I willcheck out the conservtive veggie site for sure! To all of you: THANK YOU. I guess we conservatives are a bit touchy on things! WIth the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and the Bush Presidency its hard to speak truth to whats going on; as a conservative we are both drawn to the President but repelled by the excesses of the Bush Presidency. We criticized Bill for nation building and here we are in the Middle East doing the EXACT same thing. However, as a right winger, I am probably more afraid of the more explicit, deep, undercover excesses of conservativism -- black operations, assasinations, change(s) of power -- things we never see but know (as conservatives) that they are indeed there and hover over us. Turns many of us neo-liberal or libertarian... Off soapbox. Thanks guys for being so open. Now on to bodybuilding! Break out those hemp protein shakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinisterkungfu Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 We criticized Bill for nation building and here we are in the Middle East doing the EXACT same thing. That's something I've always wondered about. The same conservatives who spoke out so vehemently against Clinton, and condemned him for bombing military targets in Iraq and Afghanistan, are now 100% behind Bush starting all out wars in both places, overthrowing the governments of sovereign nations and getting a whole heck of a lot more of our soldiers (not to mention innocent civilians in both of those countries) killed in the process. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveliberate Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 We criticized Bill for nation building and here we are in the Middle East doing the EXACT same thing. That's something I've always wondered about. The same conservatives who spoke out so vehemently against Clinton, and condemned him for bombing military targets in Iraq and Afghanistan, are now 100% behind Bush starting all out wars in both places, overthrowing the governments of sovereign nations and getting a whole heck of a lot more of our soldiers (not to mention innocent civilians in both of those countries) killed in the process. Why is that? And going the other direction, it's worth realizing that many of the democrats, liberals & such who claim to be so opposed to the Bush & Co. attacks against our freedom, such as the PATRIOT act & similar "anti-terrorist" legislation, sure didn't raise much of a stink when Clinton & crew were pushing and passing similar crap.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compassionategirl Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Now on to bodybuilding! Break out those hemp protein shakes! (closest thing I could find to a hemp protein shake!) But this is still my fav emoticon: By the way, I am not opposed to guns either. In fact, I totally support our right to arm bears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveliberate Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Glad to hear that CG! If only critters could shoot back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USOBBA Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 When I returned from Seattle in the summer of 2004, I was a bit worried by what I saw at the protest marches because I could not accommodate my own veganism without putting up with the various questions I would receive from my own "crew" here in the South whilst claiming I was really (and truly) a conservative. Veganism is indeed separate from politics (or should be) based entirely upon the evidence for it from a specifically health point of view. I shouldn't judge someone soley upon that. After viewing the conservative veggie site I was blown away (again) that there are indeed, people of my ilk out there. We can claim our own bit of the vegan world but still hold to our principles as true conservatives. You can legitamately fold both together without having an air bubble of opposition come up. The only person who has looked at me askance has been my Dad but when I explained to him the factory-farming of animals who are senselessly slaughtered while talking to him, man-to-man, about the benefits of veganism, he remarked, "You may have something there." But he is few and far between from the majority of people -- liberal and conservative -- who are meat eaters. I still remain steadfastly a conservative, gun owner (as well as, *gasp* a Christian) and beleiver in the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveliberate Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 There are close-minded folks of all persuasions, left, right, vegan, meat-eater - whatever. I think it's really important to look at people as individuals and for us as individuals to make up our own minds on "issues" rather than unthinkingly accept a party line. We should encourage others to do the same even if we do not agree with the conclusions they reach - that's an essential partof freedom. We dont have to agree with each other, but we do need to respect each other. As for that other stuff you wrote... well... I liked the gun owner part! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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