What do you think about PeTA?

[karlhubris]

I usually wouldn't talk about this in mixed (non-vegan/vegetarian) company because I like to at least give an impression of a united front, and I know some people might get REALLY upset, but here goes...

Does anybody else think that PeTA just might be , well...to put it bluntly...idiots??!

Before you start getting huffy, let me explain, and other AR people have told me they feel the same but are torn...they just lack common sense PR skills.

The best point is the March of Crimes campaign. I hate animal testing, I think its invalid and you know all the other facts, but when peoples kids are dying they aren't gonna listen to reasonable arguements. To most people the March of dimes represents helping children, not animal testing. It seems to most people that they are attacking a children's welfare group. I've also noticed that they like to enter an area, stir the shit, and then leave. They did that a few years ago in Amarillo with some billboards. They came in, picked a fight and immediately left. The few AR people here were themselves blindsided and had to deal with all the fall out.

Again, in private conversations with AR people that will go un-named they expressed the same feelings, but were torn since they are the most well known AR group. And it is important that outsiders see a unified movement, but at what point are their tactics poorly carried out and cause more damage than good. True story, I had been working on people and convincing them of the rationality of veganism and how it was more than bleeding heart liberal crap, it was logical and reasonable, then the Oprah trial happened and PeTA showed up with some moron dancing in the streets in a cow suit. So much for veganism standing for reason, it looked more like a circus. I mean, that might work somewhere, but they obviously weren't aware of the atmoshere here. Another example, the put their "Jesus wasa Vegetarian" billboard up...immediately "good Christians" warned the SPCA that they were going to burn a cat alive every day that sign was up and the local police stated they couldn't do a thing about it because it wasn't a crime ( to threaten to burn cats alive)!!!!!I don't know if the threat was carried out, but I have little reason to suspect it wasn't. How is that helpful!? PeTa did their road kill Cafe stunt here, which I admit helped me meet some Ar people I didn't know of in this town, but it also gave that particular restaraunt a record crowd that day. They line actually went out the door because people wanted to personally say "f*** you" to the PeTA people outside ( there were 4, 2 from out of town and 2 local people). Essentially more animals suffered for their actions. It just seems that they don't think!!

Oh well, thats my 2 cents...

[CollegeB]

I was listening to some of the mp3's from the animal voices show (http://www.animalvoices.ca/shows.htm) and in the 2nd Gary Francioine interview he had complaints against PETA. He referred to them as idiotic. So you are not the only one. I dont know much of their campaigns, but do feel that at least they are doing something, and getting people involved. Though the most impact PETA has had on me is the meet your meat video.

[karlhubris]

There in lies my frustration...I was once a member, I did get some good things from them, but I think I out grew their tactics. Like I said, even their Roadkill Cafe stunt here allowed me to meet 2 new AR people in this town I knew nothing about. But at what cost. Like I said, people swarmed to that restaraunt and flaunted their purchases. The owner said it was the best thing to happen to him since he opened!!!!!! And that place has been around for years! The point is, to use an analogy...children who act out do get alot of attention, but is it the right kind of attention?

[karlhubris]

And another thing...

Lately PeTa been campaigning against animal shelters that euthanize...this is just hippocritical...years ago in '92 when I first joined PeTA there was a scandal because it was discovered they had euthanized a bunch of resued rabbits due to an inability to care for them. They tried to keep it on the down low, but word got out and they justified it. Does any body else remember that? I mean come on!!!! I hate euthanization of animals due to human stupidity, but aren't there bigger tofu chunks to fry? I swear, sometimes I think they have been infiltrated and are being destroyed from within! Speaking of...slightly off topic but consider this....my father is in law enforcement in GA., he worked security with some 1000 or so other cops for some big G7 type conference in Savanah a few years ago. They were expecting another Seattle so there was lotof law enforcement, but only a few protestors showed up. About a dozen people were arrested, heres the best part...HALF OF THOSE ARRESTED WERE UNDERCOVER LAW ENFORCEMENT!!!!! My dad thought it was hilarious, I finf it disturbing, and only adds to my paranoia about PeTA

[karlhubris]

And yet another thing concerning euthanasia...

recently I was visiting a pit bull rescue site and several people were griping about PeTAs stance on the issue, as I recall they were calling for euthanasia of "dangerous" breeds to stop dog fights, attacks...I don't know if this is even true, does anybody know about this issue? Is that really their stance these days? If so it is the PARAMOUNT of hippocracy. It could be fabricated. I should try to find that site again to double check the exact context, either way, they're not making friends among people who could be valuable allies...

[CollegeB]

Yeah and then PETA turns around and demands welfare for KFC chickens and the like. Also a Penn and Teller documentary discussed a lot of the hypocracy with PETA.

[karlhubris]

I saw that Penn & Teller documentary...it kind of bummed me out on Penn and Teller. They were kinda assholes, especially since they lumped the whole AR movement with PeTA. To be honest I'm torn on alot of AR tactics...mostly due to how I see Pro-life people. When I see idiots protesting in front of Planned Parenthood I wonder " is that what AR people look like to others?" Thats a whole 'nother topic...

My own personal experiecne is that I have turned far more friends vegetarian than enemies...so I proceed with that in mind.

[endcruelty]

i dont know all the facts but from what i read and hear, i dont think i can stand 100% behind peta.....

1. they are essential a business only worried about the amount of cash they get coming in (maybe maybe not but thats just what i think)

2. im all for celebrities promoting animal rights, eg. Moby, Woody Harrelson, Joaquin Phoenix, Alicia Silverstone that actually care about the animals and the world we live in, but when i see peta promoting..... *clears throat* posers it just gets my bl00d boiling eg. Andre 3000, Pamela Anderson, Reese Witherspoon. i mean they're basically just using these celebs to maybe themselves stand out just to get more cash, and these celebs are also just l00king for yet another way to get their faces out to the general public

3. the thing about that bullshit episode is this, you gatta remember, who are the sponsors, and major funds for that show???? once you answer that you'll understand why they attacked peta...... if you dunno the answer, its the meat, dairy, fur, etc corporations..... they front up the cash for the show and the show will basically bash anyone they are told to bash, plain and simple

[karlhubris]

I didn't put a whole lotta faith in that Penn & Teller crap, but it was depressing...was that the show you were talking about? But you hit it on the nose, they're (PeTA) a BUSINESS. And they sponsor a whole bunch of veggie "hipsters." Once you reach a certain size I think its impossible to keep the heart of the movement at the forefront...too much pressure to please too many people. I can be reasonable about it. PeTa (in my opinion) is AR 101-a great beginner course. These days I really like Vegan Outreach...one of their pamphlets can do way more damage than 10 people dancing in the middle of the street in a cow costume. As a matter of fact, one of my professors has been hinting that he wanted to try vegetarianism. I gave him a Why Vegan last week and his wife, another professor asked my wife two days ago where the best tofu in town was. With any luck I got 2 converts with 1 pamphlet, I ain't ever seen the PeTA cow do that! I have seen it piss people off though...you gotta win their hearts and minds, not make 'em hate you!

[AllIveEverTouched]

Wow all this pent up frustration.

 

 

I personally like PETA for many reasons:

 

1. They are informative. Just look around their MANY websites.

 

2. They are eyecatching. It's amazing how many people I speak to that don't even know what a vegan is and barely

have a good concept of a vegetarian. Bringing up the topic is very important and PETA does this well.

 

3. Humor. Even with all the horrible things going on PETA has a fresh attitude about it and it's not so dismally

depressing that becoming vegan would seem like visiting a funeral home to nonvegans.

 

There's more but I don't feel like typing.

 

 

 

I will however say that it is of my opinion that PETA has done no wrong in euthanizing all the animals they have

and all these anti-PETA groups are morons for not seeing it. Example:

 

The average of animals that PETA euthanizes is 80%

Source

 

According to the NCPPSP, 56% of dogs and 71% of cats were euthanized over an average of 4 years in America.

Source

 

Accorging to Animal Relief Fund for a Shelter, 60% of dogs and 70% of cats are euthanized in America.

Source

 

According to the Humane Society 50% of animals in the US are euthanized each year.

Source

 

 

While 80% is considerably high, if we take 8 million animals and divide them among 6,000 shelters, we wind up

with 1,333 animals per shelter. That means PETA took in more than 50% more animals than the average shelter last year.

 

 

So... people can knock PETA all they want but considering they've only been around 25 years or so and other

organizations have been going on 100 AND the name we all seem to remember is PETA, they must be doing something right.

[andesuma]

I am indifferent on the issues, I've been pro-PETA, and anti-PETA in my nearly 11 vegan years..

After all is said and done, PETA's positives still far out weigh their negatives

(when it comes to getting new animal welfare laws past,

when it comes to providing for rescused animals,

and when it comes to changing the way people think about certain things.)

 

 

I do, however disagree with their tactics and feel it turns a lot of people

away,

or makes them feel attacked..

I still use the dvd's ('Chew on This' I think is far better than 'Meet your Meat')

and info. booklets to spread the word.

 

 

 

I also agree with Robert Cohen's(www.notmilk.com)

opinions when it comes to some of PETA's "victories" for animals,

like when they talk about "humane slaughter", and how people speaking at AR conferences will talk about those milestones, and how they are giving the animals better lives...

But the end is all the same.

As Robert Cohen put it beautifully in response to this in an article

"When I hear these things and see these things going on at

AR conferences, I imagine a pig walking up to the poteum,

and saying "But I'm still going to die"...."

 

(not an exact quote, but I thought it was put nicely.)

[endcruelty]

I also agree with Robert Cohen's(www.notmilk.com)

opinions when it comes to some of PETA's "victories" for animals,

like when they talk about "humane slaughter", and how people speaking at AR conferences will talk about those milestones, and how they are giving the animals better lives...

But the end is all the same.

As Robert Cohen put it beautifully in response to this in an article

"When I hear these things and see these things going on at

AR conferences, I imagine a pig walking up to the poteum,

and saying "But I'm still going to die"...."

 

done & done....... thats why they say peta is for animal welfare not animal rights..... but then peta goes off saying "its 1 step closer to winning animal rights"...... i dunno about that... i get kinda pissed when i see that meatrix video, or whatever its called, promoting organic milk, at the end of the day, that milk comes from a cow that gave up her baby and that baby got slaughtered so people could drink that precious milk..... no thanks even if it is "humane"

[veganmonk]

I think that PeTA is 90% good for all they do. All their websites and partner sites are extremely well done and informative, and provide a wealth of resources and facts to share with the world, not to mention all the proof and evidence of all the suffering that animals go through.

 

They are by no means perfect, but they are by far the largest and most successfull animal rights group in the world, and without them, I don't think the animal rights movement would be nearly as successfull. They have accomplished a lot, whether it is completely all the way a/r such as convicing a celeb to go vegan or veggie, or baby steps like convincing ralph lauren not to manufacture fur, it is all good for the animals.

 

My biggest bone to pick with PeTA, is that they sometimes do things that are not A/R based such as:

 

1. Giving the PeTA person of the year award to a guy that invented a gassing to death mouse trap. The reasoning was pathetic, stating that gassing a mouse and then alerting a person that there is a dead mouse, enables a person to find the mouse hole quickly, and close it, thus saving other mice. Ridiculous! If you put a trap where a mouse hole was, you'd know where it was to begin with! You can't find those things without looking for them specifically. Also, killing a mouse is killing, however you look at it. And, the alerting technology could have been added to a humane capture / no-kill trap instead couldn't it PeTA? Geez....

 

2. Telling you that all cats must be indoor cats and not allowed to have their own free will to go outside and return if they want to. Clearly they must live in busy cities and do not truly respect their cats as equals and as having the right to be free, and live with humans by choice, but rather by force. I have grown up with cats my whole life, and all of them have been outdoor cats, and they come back by choice, under their own free will. I do not control them like possessions. This is true a/r equality and respect.

 

3. Believing that man must observe animals from afar, and that man and animals cannot be natural companions (ie: no cats or dogs). This is false, because both ancient cats in egypt, and dogs in the wild (wolves, huskies), ventured to man by choice, and were always throughout history free and by choice returned to be with man, as a mutual friendship (food and companionship). Therefore they are mistaken in two ways about this. They are correct in stating that man made breeding of animals is not right for profit etc..etc.., but the overall perspective is invalid.

 

4. They cross between animal welfare and animal rights quite often, and don't take a clear a/r stance all the time. But in general, they do seem to focus properly on a/r.

[karlhubris]

This is what I was hoping for...a reasonable conversation. Some people go ape-shit if you dare suggest PeTA is not perfect...

I agree with most of what has been said, PeTA has done a tremendous amount of good, but sometimes they do more damage, at least lately. As far as them euthanizing, my point is why are they attacking other gr4oups that euthanize?! And does anybody know their stance on pitbulls? I still haven't heard about that. If they are for euthanizing all pitbulls as is ther rumor, then that's just f**ked up!!! There are a few aggressive dogs of that breed, but that's the owners fault not the dog's! Most pits I've known are real sweeties! I work at the SPCA, we have a lot of pits we rescue from the Humane Society (kinda ironic) and they are all sweet & affectionate dogs, even the ones who came from fighting backgrounds...still sweet after all the sh%t they've been through. Of course I realize we don't see the highly aggressive ones. I say euthanize the as**oles, not the victims!!!

[CollegeB]

I believe it is Colorado (of all states!) that has a ban on pitbulls and was taking dogs from families and killing them.

[karlhubris]

I'm curious about the reference that PeTA is only 25 and more famous than AR groups that are 100+ years old. What groups are you talking about?! If you are talking about the Humane Society or SPCA I think you're mistaken, I don't know thier exact ages but I don't know if they qualify as AR, and if you are considering them as AR, then you are mistaken on their "fame," they are far more well known than PeTA. So that there is no mistake I want to make it perfectly clear, I think ALL these groups serve a valuable purpose. But I also think they have made mistakes.

[karlhubris]

Yeah, I know about Colorado, more specifically Denver, but what is PeTA's stance...again, I have heard they are for euthanasia of ALL pitbulls...it could be a smear campaign, that's what I'm trying to figure out...I read it on a pitbull rescue site...

[veganmonk]

I asked PeTA sometime back about the euthenasia issue, and they told me they only do it if the animal is suffering and cannot be cured, for example sometimes they find an animal cut in half and suffering, so they put it to sleep.

 

They don't euthenize animals for the sake of money or space, or healthy animals.

[karlhubris]

The justification I heard was that the existance of breeds like pitbulls only encourage blood sports...it wouldn't surprise me if it was a smear campaign, but I'd still like to get down to the bottom of it. There was a time when PeTa swore they would never euthanize an animal...they denied the rabbit dearhs for a while before they finally fessed up, like I said, that wasbackin '92, I know alot of people cancelled their memberships over that...I canceled mine when they sent some idiot playboy bunny to be interviewed by Bill O'Reilly, she made the whole movement look like idiots...at one point O'Reilly held up a piece of paer that he claimed was a study that proved that if everyone was vegetarian we couldn't grow enough food!!!! By the end the PeTa spokesperson was supporting animal research and accepted an offer by O'Reilly to go out for steak!!!! PeTA sent that airhead!!!!!! Does anyone remember that?!

[Guest]

For the most part I think they have a good agenda of course...but the tactics are really weird sometimes. If they didn't work at all I'd have a big problem with it but they definately work...maybe not for everyone but for some...and some may not mean alot to people but for animals it does. For the most part the non-veggies that say PETA turns them off from us would never go veg anyway. Personally I wish I ran into a PETA demo earlier on...I think I would have been vegan many years prior to my switch...oddly enough I didn't even know what PETA was until I was vegan for probably over a month...what a little(well big and stupid) naive vegan I was.

[karlhubris]

They do some good, I can't argue with that, but there are some out there who believe they can do no wrong, that's a bad attitude to have...I think thtas called...oh yeah...hubris

[Guest]

I'm not saying they don't do anything wrong but if they do something wrong that makes one extra vegan thats 80 some odd animals saved every year...it may piss people off but did they care anyway.

[karlhubris]

Yeah, I know you weren't blindly praising them...like I said earlier, they are a great vegan 101. Are you aware of that O'Reilly interview? That just bummed me out so bad. I had finally decided to renew my membership and I saw that...it was horrible. I remember alot of vegetarian/vegan message boards talking about it for days...what the hell were they thinking?!

[Guest]

no I wish I new...I don't have cable so whats the deal??? I love watching the show to see how stupid americans are but haven't had the chance for a while

[karlhubris]

here's the scoop...PeTA had some airhead playboy bunny go on the Bill O'Reilly show to debate animal rights...she didn't know anything...at one point O'Reilly held up a piece of paper he claimed was research that said if everyone was vegetarian there wouldn't be enough farm land to grow food for everyone...now that was one of the first things I learned about veganism...80% corn & 90% grain goes to feed livestock not people...blah-blah-blah, I'm sure you know the statistics...but this idiot was like "Really?' I didn't knowe that... Bill obviosly made that up, he's notorious for that...then he some how got her to say that animal testing was good, and at the end of the interview he asked her to go out and have a steak with hinm and she AGREED!!!!!!!!!! I was jumping all over my house!!! Her argument was basically that animals are cute.....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA