GRardB Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 (edited) Many non-vegetarian/non-vegan bodybuilders bash soy protein because they say the phytoestrogens decrease testosterone and increase estrogen. Is this true? Soy is probably my main source of protein and I'd hate to limit my consumption of it to get bigger. I've seen some results in the last month, and some of my friends say the same, but is soy slowing my growth down? I personally believe that soy is amazing and that it can't be bad, but I'm only 16 and have no knowledge in this field. I see dudes like Robert Cheeke and Alexander Dargatz and I think "No, soy must be great," but I've never been one to close my mind to disappointing information. So what do you guys think? Thanks,Gerard Edited October 2, 2007 by GRardB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc7 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 The amount of phytoestrogens in soy are very very small. Someone else might be able to give you exact numbers. Personally, I eat 1 or 2 pounds of tofu or similar products each week, as well as drinking a couple litres of soymilk, and I never worry about consuming too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 They are completely harmless...just look at the most populous nation on the planet...big soy eaters. If they had a bunch of men turning into women they wouldn't have so many children. Also so many people have been eating tons of soy and I've never actually seen a person from one of these stupid studies that actually suffers from high estrogen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odidnetne Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Robert barely eats soy though, and I know Mr. Dargatz probably eats a very varied diet also. If you fear eating lots and lots of soy, go for rice, pea or hemp protein. I've seen pea protein with 25 - 30 grams a serving, and there are plenty of smoothie threads to help out with other ideas to get your protein elsewhere. (One that I remember is soymilk, 2 bananas, some peanut butter, (protein powder), some berries (optional), and a handful of rolled oats) That smoothie could give you a varied source of protein, and you could go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I could be wrong, but I think Robert ate a lot of soy when he first started putting on mass. Like any food group worth billions of dollars per year (and soy is BIG business) there will always be various opposition groups. Some of the bad rap soy gets has come from smoke screen "consumer" or "scientific" groups. I would worry much more about the hormones I could ingest from today's meat, dairy and fish instead of the weak plant phytoestrogens in soy. Even the omni's in this country eat a lot of soy since it's added to so many processed foods, energy bars and supplements. At this point I would say it's a personal choice how much soy you consume, but variety in any diet is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdandrew Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Based on what I know, I would suggest doing about 1-2 servings of soy products per day. Unfortunately, soy is found in many different products (isolated, oil, etc). It can be difficult to avoid. If you mix in other legumes, nuts, seeds, grains, and veggies - you should be good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelicanAndrew Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I prefer legumes and rice and other whole non-processed grains. I also like to have a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich a day. That's my only bread in take and maybe a bagel now and then. Most things I eat are pretty simple. It's just way cheaper to not buy tofu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I like tempeh with some good mustard. Tofu, it's ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelicanAndrew Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I like tempeh with some good mustard. Tofu, it's ok... Tofu dill sammiches rock. I also enjoy it in pad thai and pomegranate tofu is the shiznit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc7 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 When I'm really hungry and really lazy, I make "shake and bake" tofu. Mmm, vegan comfort food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odidnetne Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I could be wrong, but I think Robert ate a lot of soy when he first started putting on mass. Like any food group worth billions of dollars per year (and soy is BIG business) there will always be various opposition groups. Some of the bad rap soy gets has come from smoke screen "consumer" or "scientific" groups. I would worry much more about the hormones I could ingest from today's meat, dairy and fish instead of the weak plant phytoestrogens in soy. Even the omni's in this country eat a lot of soy since it's added to so many processed foods, energy bars and supplements. At this point I would say it's a personal choice how much soy you consume, but variety in any diet is a good thing. No, you're correct, but he eats more whole foods now, saying on VV as he was cooking a soy dog that "He barely eats these anymore." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamela Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 There's nothing wrong with eating some soy. It's my personal paranoid belief that the dairy industry is trying to over-emphasize and misrepresent the whole phytoestrogen thing because they perceive a threat to their bottom line. However, like a few others have said, it's a good idea to diversify. Hemp protein is probably the very best source of protein out there, so maybe limit your soy intake to actual foods, and if you supplement or use a protein shake make it hemp. Hemp protein + chocolate almond milk = yum, I'm told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 When I was bigger I ate way more soy. I've stopped eating it for the most part and have lost some weight and am leaner. I just had enough of the stuff, however I just ate 1/2 lb of tofu. Thats a first in about a month. All that phytoestrogen stuff I dont buy it. If it really worries you just work out legs more to help produce testosterone, eat more nuts and seeds. I hear sex will increase T output as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRardB Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 Thanks for all the replies, guys. I'm happy to see dudes with pictures of them and their muscles as proof that soy doesn't turn you into a woman lmao. As for hemp protein, does anybody have any recommendations? I take whey (I'm not a vegan) and I like it, but from what I've read, hemp is definitely better and I'm all for taking a plant protein rather than from any kind of animal source. Do they sell hemp protein at Whole Foods Market? That's where I usually shop for my vegetarian stuff, but I order my whey online, so it's not big deal if I need to order hemp. Another question about hemp...I drink my whey protein shake after my workouts and they're about 50g of protein per shake, which I think is important because after a workout, from what I've read, is when your body absorbs nutrients the most. Would something like a 5LB tub of hemp protein last me a month if I'm making 50g protein shakes 6 days a week like my whey protein does? Thanks,Gerard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Thanks for all the replies, guys. I'm happy to see dudes with pictures of them and their muscles as proof that soy doesn't turn you into a woman lmao. As for hemp protein, does anybody have any recommendations? I take whey (I'm not a vegan) and I like it, but from what I've read, hemp is definitely better and I'm all for taking a plant protein rather than from any kind of animal source. Do they sell hemp protein at Whole Foods Market? That's where I usually shop for my vegetarian stuff, but I order my whey online, so it's not big deal if I need to order hemp. Another question about hemp...I drink my whey protein shake after my workouts and they're about 50g of protein per shake, which I think is important because after a workout, from what I've read, is when your body absorbs nutrients the most. Would something like a 5LB tub of hemp protein last me a month if I'm making 50g protein shakes 6 days a week like my whey protein does? Thanks,Gerard Not at all, hemp has far less protein in it than whey. That being said, I did enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Its hard to say...going by weight hemp is likely pretty close to whey but hemp just isn't as dense. As for filling up on protein right after working out I suggest going for simple carbs first. Sure your body wants protein but it just can't take it. After your body is tired out it doesn't want the stress of breaking down the hardest thing it can digest(protein). I used to load up on protein right away after a workout and as soon as I learned about filling up on carbs I tried it and never turned back...it makes recovery so much better. Give it a break and sweeten things up. Take the protein 90-120minutes later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roid_rage Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I´m fearing the hormone thing in soy a little bit,so i decided to add high amounts of zinc daily, because it works as oestrogene blocker. Regarding soy protein isolate, you dont have to worry, hormones are inactive in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 hormones are inactive in there They are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roid_rage Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 hormones are inactive in there They are? yes, as far as I know, isolated soy protein is "harmless" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 hormones are inactive in there They are? yes, as far as I know, isolated soy protein is "harmless" I thought it still contained the isoflavones? You'd think isolate would be just the protein, but I'm not sure that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roid_rage Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I checked it- In soy protein isolate they are inactive. But thats only what German Websites say, strangely not English websites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I checked it- In soy protein isolate they are inactive. But thats only what German Websites say, strangely not English websites. Can you give a link to one of the German sites? I'd like to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roid_rage Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I checked it- In soy protein isolate they are inactive. But thats only what German Websites say, strangely not English websites. Can you give a link to one of the German sites? I'd like to see that. Of course http://www.bodybuilding-abc.de/proteine.phpJust read in the term " Soja Protein". First they talk about concentrate, which has high amounts of estrogens,then about Isolate. ( i summerized it wrong, they arent inactive, there are just very very few) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Thankfully someone created web page translators, now it's in English. That's good to know. I'm not using any protein powder right now...Just eating a lot...1200 calories of oats in a day is pretty easy for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeganDude Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Just eating a lot...1200 calories of oats in a day is pretty easy for me. And so it should be, thats only about 300g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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