EFA Oils

[Troy]

This is a continuation from a different thread....

 

I wouldn't pay a lot of money for an EFA supplement unless it contained vegan EPA. To date, there is only one vegan EPA supplement, that is water4life in the UK.

 

EPA & DHA ( an Omega 3 essential fatty acid ) are the only omega 3's that nutritionists are unsure about everyone being able to get from flax seeds.

 

Flax seeds are uber cheap, uber available, and will not spoil short of an atomic bomb going off.

 

According to vegan nutritionist Brenda Davis RD vegans get too much omega 6 without even trying, so they primarily have to worry about the omega 3s as far as being concerned about the essential fatty acids go.

 

Here is a fascinating book about everything that flax seeds do for you that flax oils do not. There is a really good review there:

 

http://tinyurl.com/2yrlyy

i think you have to take a combination of flax/walnut/ and avacado

Why?

i dunno, i remember hearing it somewhere.. but i can't remember the exact reason for it.

To date, there is only one vegan EPA supplement, that is water4life in the UK.

beforewisdom, what about Udo's DHA oil?

 

Udo’s DHA Oil Blend™

 

An excellent vegetarian source of DHA (Docosahexaenoic Acid) (algae-derived)

 

Serving Size:1.00 Tablespoon ( 15.00 ml )

 

Amount per Serving

Calories 120.00

Calories from Fat 120.00

Total Fat 13.00 g

Saturated Fat 2.50 g

Polyunsaturated Fat 8.00 g

Monounsaturated Fat 3.00 g

Omega-3 Fatty Acids 4.10 g

ALA (alpha-linolenic acid) 4.00 g

DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) 100.00 mg

EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) 3.00 mg

Omega-6 GLA (gamma-linoleic acid) 40.00 mg

Omega-9 Fatty Acids (oleic acid) 3.00 g

 

Ingredients: Organic Flax Seed Oil, Organic Sunflower Seed Oil, Organic Sesame Seed Oil, Organic Evening Primrose Oil, Unrefined DHA Algae Oil (Schizochytrium sp), Organic Coconut Oil, Rice Germ and Bran Oil, Soy Lecithin (Non-GMO), Rosemary Extract (Preservative), Organic Oat Germ and Bran Oil.

 

One serving of Udo's DHA Oil Blend provides 103 milligrams of EPA and DHA Omega-3 fatty acids.

It's not enough to eat vegan (or non-vegan) EPA and DHA supplements if your diet is still too high in Omega 6 fatty acids.

 

I will not comment on any supplements in this thread because I understand some members have financial interests in certain companies. If you want to learn about the optimal omega 6 to omega 3 ratio then there are numerous books you can read. But the ratio counts for your entire diet, not just one product.

 

(I'm having a difficult time typing today, hence all the editing!)

I recommend "Becoming Vegan" by Brenda Davis RD. Her section on fats is the clearest.....and most complete of any I have ever read.

I recommend "Becoming Vegan" by Brenda Davis RD. Her section on fats is the clearest.....and most complete of any I have ever read.

 

What other books on fats do you compare it to?

Troy,

 

That's not the typical american ratio now is it? Have you found that you bleed longer than you have in the past? Definitely, if you have any elective surgery you will want to inform your surgeon that he/she might wish to perform a bleeding time test on you prior to surgery. Also, if you are a blood donor then you may find that you have to hold pressure on the catheter site longer than in the past. I'm not aware of any other "negative" side effects of omega 3s. I say negative because in certain circumstances (like surgery, a nosebleed, an accident) that lovely "declotting" effect of omega 3s is not desirable.

I've read "Fats That Heal And Fats That Kill", in addition to about a dozen or more vegetarian and vegan nutrition books throghout the years in addition to many journal articles.

 

Brenda Davis RD is one of the coauthors of the American Dietetic Association Position Paper On Vegetarianism.

I've read "Fats That Heal And Fats That Kill", in addition to about a dozen or more vegetarian and vegan nutrition books throghout the years in addition to many journal articles.

 

Brenda Davis RD is one of the coauthors of the American Dietetic Association Position Paper On Vegetarianism.

 

Excellent, I will add Becoming Vegan to my list of book wants... thank you

From what I know, it is not the typical american ratio, is it the correct ratio? I am not an expert, honestly I'm just going off of Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill... I have been using Udo's Oil for many years and have no ill side effects. I never did any other further research beyond his book, but am interested in doing some and would appreciate any other recommend reads. I guess you could say that I'm not accident prone so I don't injure my too often, so I'm not sure how my prior bleeding time compares to my current bleeding time. Thank you for the surgery advice as I wasn't aware of that side effect of omega 3s. As far as the blood donating thing goes, I have never done it, and never plan to, just a personal choice, I have nothing against the practice of it or people who choose to give blood.

Troy,

 

I've read differing opinions on the optimal ratio of omega 6 to 3. The lowest I've seen is 1:1 and we all know the side effects of too much omega 6 but not too much omega 3. Actually, it would be somewhat difficult for a vegan to eat much of a higher ratio of omega 3 to 6 than you do. How do you do it??

 

Basically, the only way I can think of a vegan to do this is to eat very little fat in foods (nuts, beans, tofu, prepared foods) and to eat either lots of flaxseed or use lots of flaxseed oil.

 

Did you figure out the ratio on your own or did you use a calculator such as nutritiondata.com? This is very interesting!

Towards the end of "Fats That Heal, Fats That Kill" Udo Erasmus lists symptoms of too much omega 3. The only one I remember ( it has been a few years since I read the book ) is dry skin, but I remember there were others.

There is a link to my diet in my signature, all my carb and protein sources are very low fat, and I supplement about 5 tablespoons of Udo's DHA oil a day. However, my estimation was way off... oops! The ratio is more of a 5:4 omega 3s to omega 6s. An average training day I get 25.5g of omega 3 and 19.4 of omega 6. How does that fair?

Towards the end of "Fats That Heal, Fats That Kill" Udo Erasmus lists symptoms of too much omega 3. The only one I remember ( it has been a few years since I read the book ) is dry skin, but I remember there were others.

 

I looked just now and couldn't find it in the book, but that does ring a bell.

Edited December 10, 2007 by Troy

[Troy]

What is everyone's opinion on what the ideal O3:O6 ratio should be...?

[robert]

Wow, that was a lot of work man! You could have asked me to move the posts

 

But....I was at the gym and then at a Food Fight! SHAC 7 benefit so I wasn't around.

 

Thanks for posting this sir!

[offense74]

What is everyone's opinion on what the ideal O3:O6 ratio should be...?

Noone actually knows this and thus it only becoes more or less educated guesses. I've heard that the span 1:1 to 1:4 is probably wher you want to be. There is some more info here. Michael Greger have looked into this to some extent.

Bottom line: Eat some flax every day and don't eat oils.

[Troy]

...don't eat oils.

 

Why?

[offense74]

Because they are perverted versions of their original form. Olives are better than olive oil. Coconut is better than coconut oil. And so on.

If you want to use it in cooking because it tastes better than so be it but I really don't think it's healthy...

[Troy]

Agreed that it is processed, but if its processed properly, ie. cold pressed, in the absence of light and oxygen to ensure maximum freshness and stability, wouldn't that be ok for consumption? You have to break open flaxseeds to get the oils from them anyways, do you not? I never cook with oils, I only mix the oil in smoothies, use it to dip my Manna bread in, or mix it with steamed rice or quinoa after it has cooled a bit.

[Troy]

Wow, that was a lot of work man! You could have asked me to move the posts But....I was at the gym and then at a Food Fight! SHAC 7 benefit so I wasn't around. Thanks for posting this sir!

Your welcome... Sorry I got antsy, and yes it was a bit of work but nothing really too major. Now I know for future mishaps...

[offense74]

Agreed that it is processed, but if its processed properly, ie. cold pressed, in the absence of light and oxygen to ensure maximum freshness and stability, wouldn't that be ok for consumption? You have to break open flaxseeds to get the oils from them anyways, do you not? I never cook with oils, I only mix the oil in smoothies, use it to dip my Manna bread in, or mix it with steamed rice or quinoa after it has cooled a bit.

When you ground flax seeds you don't take anything away, it's all still there. The whole purpose of making oil is to get rid of natures 'unnecessary'/bad stuff and just keep what supposedly is good. We do the same thing with rice wheat, sugar cane and many, many others. The more I read about nutrition (and other things) the more I realize this is probably the fundamental problem. We try to trick nature and better it so we can get more use out of it.

When you translate this to oils you will have a hard time finding studies that say that the oil is better than the original medium.

[Troy]

I've thought about grounding up flaxseeds and using them instead of oil but when I would get the amount of fat I want in my diet from flaxseeds, I would also get an enormous amount of fiber too.... pushing my daily intake to around 100 grams...

 

Excess amounts of fiber can lead to dehydration, if not enough extra water is consumed, mineral loss, and maybe more gas! Yikes, like thats not a problem already. Anyways, the oil does take a bite out of the pocketbook, so maybe I'll experiment a little bit and do a week, where I go have freshly ground flaxseed and half oil, and then the next week all flaxseed...

[veggieprincess]

DV, this topic is calling your name!

 

She posts about this alot and has lots of research to back up what she says.

[DV]

Hi Veggieprincess,

 

Troy actually took the first post from another thread with some contributions from me.

 

Thanks!

[veggieprincess]

Anyways, the oil does take a bite out of the pocketbook, so maybe I'll experiment a little bit and do a week, where I go have freshly ground flaxseed and half oil, and then the next week all flaxseed...

 

I get a 16 oz bottle at Trader Joes for $7.99

 

Do they have Trader Joes in Wisconsin?

[DV]

I'll give it to Trader Joe's that they do put the oil in a dark bottle. However, it also needs to be temperature controlled. I only purchase chilled bottles since I don't know how old the oil is. For the same reason, I put my EPA/DHA supplements in the fridge when I get them.

[beforewisdom]

I've thought about grounding up flaxseeds and using them instead of oil but when I would get the amount of fat I want in my diet from flaxseeds, I would also get an enormous amount of fiber too.... pushing my daily intake to around 100 grams...

 

There is an excellent book about Flax seeds written by an RD who walks you through, in plain english, the research showing you how the seeds ( not the oil ) offers additional benefits:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Flax-Your-Way-Better-Health/dp/0971230404/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197559953&sr=8-1

 

The author recommends that people use no more than 2 tablespoons a day. That amount isn't going to hurt you, will give you most of the EFAs you need, and will give you a lot of nutrition beyond the fat as a bonus

 

I take about a tablespoon every day. I use a Starbucks coffee grinder to do it fresh every morning. The grinder cost me about $20 and has lasted 5 years so far. The seeds are so cheap I don't even bother figuring out how much they cost in terms of my food budget.

 

It isn't known if people or all people need DHA & EPA supplments, but to safe I take the water4life vegan EPA supplements. I get the "buy 2 get 1 free" deal which costs me a little bit over $80 and comes out to about $1.30 a day.........the same as a bottle of soda from my office vending machine. An amount I never cry about, an amount that is still CHEAP compare to using highly perishable oils and other expensive supplements.