chrysalis

Wow, the bold face big letters scared me! I'm still new here, how do you put what other people posted into the squares or quotes or whatever? In answer to your question of how much protein I ate... well I can already feel the anti-high protein squad ready to jump me... but I went from eating about 40-50 grams for many years which is about 1 gram per kilo body weight for me, as I have been 42-45 kilos for most of my adult life to about 100 grams for about 2 months,(1200-1500 calories) then when I decided to compete I hired a coach/nutritionist. He wasn't vegan but he gave me the macro ratios he gives to his omni competitors and I just created my own vegan menu out of the ratios using vegan food. I consumed 135 to 150 grams of protein on 1500-1800 calories. I went from 23% body fat to 17%, my weight first went up 4 lbs when I increased calories and protein and then I lost 10 lbs when he dropped my calories to 1200 again in the last 5 weeks out. On 1200 calories I was eating 100 grams of protein. I know that I bulked around my shoulders, arms,chest and thighs because I couldn't get into my long sleeved shirts any more, my pants got tight around the thighs and loose around the waist I also Scuba dive and my wetsuit didn't fit around my shoulders and arms any more. I can't hire anyone right now I can't afford it, so I'm trying to figure out how to bulk on my own. So there doesn't seem to be too many female competitors here but are there quite a few men besides Robert that competes? Men seem to be able to eat a massive amount of calories and put on muscle, I tend to gain fat and not muscle if I eat too much.

Wow, the bold face big letters scared me! I'm still new here, how do you put what other people posted into the squares or quotes or whatever? In answer to your qestion of how much protein I ate... well I can already feel the anti-high protein squad ready to jump me... but I went from eating about 40-50 grams for many years which is about 1 gram per kilo body weight for me, as I have been 42-45 kilos for most of my adult life to about 100 grams for about 2 months,(1200-1500 calories) then when I decided to compete I hired a coach/nutritionist. He wasn't vegan but he gave me the macro ratios he gives to his omni competitors and I just created my own vegan menu out of the ratios using vegan food. I consumed 135 to 150 grams of protein on 1500-1800 calories. I went from 23% body fat to 17%, my weight first went up 4 lbs when I increased calories and protein and then I lost 10 lbs when he dropped my calories to 1200 again in the last 5 weeks out. On 1200 calories I was eating 100 grams of protein. I know that I bulked around my shoulders, arms,chest and thighs because I couldn't get into my long sleeved shirts any more, my pants got tight around the thighs and loose around the waist I also Scuba dive and my wetsuit didn't fit around my shoulders and arms any more. I can't hire anyone right now I can't afford it, so I'm trying to figure out how to bulk on my own. So there doesn't seem to be too many female competitors here but are there quite a few men besides Robert that competes? Men seem to be able to eat a massive amount of calories and put on muscle, I tend to gain fat and not muscle if I eat too much.

I've been following this thread because I also am interested in competing in an NPC figure show on a vegan diet, or cross over into bodybuilding in a local competition. I think the arguing back and forth has scared the original poster away...I am also a bit scared to post anything, just that I thought originally the question was how to get enough protein to compete in an NPC show, but it's turned into a debate about how much protein an average person needs. Just by my personal experience and self observation, no scientific proof, just anecdotal evidence (and everyone is different, I'm sure some people can make significant gains on minimal protein but I think I'm an ectomorph so it's harder) I was only able to change my body composition only when I increased my protein, and in a relatively short period of about 4 months after 9 years of not much change. Anyway, I would like supportive suggestions on macro nutrient ratios for gaining muscle mass from someone who has competed or has experience with competitors, and what worked for them. I'm a bit fearful posting this that someone's going to jump all over me and tell me I don't need that much protein but I've had people argue with me from both sides: The omni muscle heads telling me I need 2x body weight of animal protein or kiss competing in bodybuilding goodbye as well as vegans who aren't into body building at all telling me I only need 5-10% protein. I was really hoping that coming here to veganbodybuilding, not just a vegan health or vegan lifestye forum but a vegan bodybuilding forum that I would get practical and supportive suggestions about nutrition to become a competitive body builder or figure athlete. I assume there are other competitors out there? I hope some day there will be some vegan IFBB Pro figure or Female bodybuilders. I agree with VP that it would be encourage more competitors to become vegan. There are athletes out there that are interested in veganism but what stops them is the belief that you can't get a competitor level body on plant proteins.

I've gained five pounds in 3 weeks but it all seems to be fat...I can't figure out how many calories to eat, macros etc. to put on mass without putting on fat. I'm eating about 1500 calories, 4'9.5 ,98 lbs....I've increased carbs and decreased protein. My legs look ok but i need to bulk up my upper body.

I tried to post pics but they wouldn't post.

Nov 4 food journal Meal 1 oatmeal rice protein ground flax Meal 2 oatmeal rice protein Meal 3 tempeh w/peanut sauce salad (lettuce, spinach, sprouts, tomato, carrots) Meal 4 somen noodles w/shojin broth (vegan broth-kombu and shiitake) sauted shitake, kombu, bean sprouts sesame seeds Meal 5 black beans mixed vegetables Meal 6 green smoothie papaya 2 cups romaine lettuce 2 cups spinach rice protein spirulina

Nov 3 food journal Meal 1 oatmeal, ground flax orange rice protein shake Meal 2 vegan pancakes w/flax green smoothie (2 cups romaine lettce, cup spinach, 7 grams spirulina, 1 banana) Meal 3 tempeh with peanut sauce salad (lettuce, alfalfa sprouts,tomato, sesame seeds) Meal 4 black beans spinach, mixed greens, sprouts, beets, carrots Meal 5 rice protein peanut butter 1/2 cup oatmeal

To be exact I am 4'9.5 I rounded it off...I used to be 4'10 before my car accident...still saids 4'10 on my driver's license...either way I'm short. Still don't know how to do the quote thing...

Thanks John, nice to get feedback. I also like looking at other people's food journals to get ideas. Nov 2 food journal (written Nov 3) I was not feeling well and couldn't eat much,pretty much slept all day, didn't have the energy to prepare anything interesting. I was hungry for my first meal but not much after that, but ate anyway. meal 1 oatmeal rice protein shake meal 2 oatmeal rice protein mixed in apple meal 3 romaine lettuce wrap w/ hummus, tomato, hempseeds, alfalfa sprouts, small piece of soycheese (.5 oz) ,basil That's all I ate yesterday. This morning I weighed 95 lbs...trying not to lose weight..one day shouldn't be a big deal.

It worked, so here's another picture of her.

This is my ideal physique-maybe a shorter version of Tomoko Kanda. she's 5'4, I'm 4'9. I'm half Japanese, I like the Asian female Body builders they look more natural and I feel like I can achieve a similar physique with my Japanese genetics. This is my first timeposting a picture, hope it works. Tomoko Kanda

It's Nov 1 so I am going to keep a log of my food log on here. I competed 3 weeks ago in my 2nd figure competition, placed 2nd in my class, the girl who placed 1st had no muscle definition, maybe IFBB is going more for the soft look now. We were also not allowed to flex and had to keep our arms close to the body more like a bikini model during quarter turns. Feedback from the judges was that I should consider body building instead of figure, so I am considering the possibility. I'm still new to body building although not to a vegan lifestyle, I was more into yoga and wanted to be lean and small like my yoga instructors, until one day I realized that I had thighs twice the size of my yoga teacher (she is about the same height and weighs 20 lbs less) even when I was lean. I tried for years to get thinner legs but I kept get getting bigger, I have calves most men would be envious of. I realized that I will probably never get that long and lean look with my genetics so decided to embrace my genetics and get into body building. I must be a mesomorph from my waist down and an ectomorph from the waist up. I have thick ankles but tiny wrists, my rib cage shows easily and sticks out yet I have thick legs. So I need to work on symmetry and build my upper body. As far as my diet goes I am cutting down on soy (I've been reading so many claims bout soy linking to thyroid problems and breast cancer, and I have a family history of breast cancer so it's scarying me) and I am also eating more raw. Stats: 4'9.5 ( 145 cm) Today's weight: 96 lbs (43.5 kilos) meal 1 oatmeal, ground flax, stevia and cinamon to taste rice protein shake w/mango and ricemilk meal 2 1 orange , 1 mango soy yogurt ground flax (I like putting the ground flax into the yogurt) meal 3 raw wraps with romaine lettuce, hummus, alfalfa sprouts, spinach, basil, tomato, hemp seeds and sesame seeds) meal 4 vegan burrito with black beans, brown rice, spinach salad with mixed greens,carrots, beets, tomato, sprouts meal 5 green protein smoothie banana, spirulina, spinach, romaine lettuce, rice protein, cocoa powder, hempmilk meal 6 "pudding" made with protein powder, peanut butter, 2 tbspn oats, ground flaxseeds and a splash of hempmilk (mix all ingredients, add a small bit of water to desired consistancy) I'm not feeling that hungry now because I'm not doing massive amounts of cardio like I was pre-comp, and I also had gotten used to lower calories. Sometimes I really have to push myself to eat 6 meals. I plan to increase slowly, adding more brown and wild rice, quinoa, sweet potato and a variety of fruits and veggies, nuts and legumes. I've gotten hooked on the green smoothies. For years I tried to drink vegetable juices but I just hated the taste of vegetable juices, and the mess I had to clean up with a juicer. Green smoothies especially with romaine lettuce is quite mild and very good. I also like my protein powder puddings.

Up to 160g of protein sounds like a whole lot in relation to your bodyweight... I only push up the protein that high when I'm trying to keep muscle mass, but loose fat... you'll probably have to risk gaining a small amount of bobyfat in your growth process - which will be a lot easier to get rid of, once you have bigger muscles I only ate 130-160 grams of protein when I was cutting for my figure competition, right now I'm at around 95-110, and eat more carbs. Sorry I don't know how this reply with quote thing works. I just don't want to put that much fat on because I am 4'9 and even 2 or 3 lbs of fat makes a huge difference on me. It took me 4 months to lose 6 lbs of fat on a cutting diet and I didn't make my competition weight which was supposed to be 85-88 lbs. I know bulking means gaining fat as well, it's just hard to figure it all out, it's my first time trying to bulk.

I think I'm going to add 50-100 calories at a time to maintenance and monitor my weight/body composition. I'm also coming off of a pre-competition diet (3 weeks ago). My body is still adjusting. I've heard horror stories of competitors rebounding and gaining 10-20 pounds in the first week after the competition.

I take in about 100-125 grams of protein, I've taken up to 160 grams. I weigh 94 lbs. I also don't eat late at night, stop eating complex carbs around 3 pm unless I work out later in the afternoon.

I take in about 100-125 grams of protein, I've taken up to 160 grams. I weigh 94 lbs. I also don't eat late at night, stop eating complex carbs around 3 pm unless I work out later in the afternoon.

I alternate between HIIT and longer mid intensity aerobic workout, not sure which works better. I seem to be maintaining at 1300-1350 calories. Should I increase to gain mass? Just don't want to gain too much fat.

I've been monitoring my weight and intake closely, and my maintenence with moderate exercise seems to be about 1300-1350, not 1400-1600, probably because I am in my late 40's. I've been lifting 3 days a week, doing HIIt 3 days a week, and maintaining with 1300-1350 calories, about 50/30/20 and 40/40/20 macro split. I eat really clean, no junk , vegetables eaten mostly raw. Carbs are more from fruits and vegetables. I am afraid of gaining fat but I want to gain mass. I just don't want to spend 6 months on 1000 calories doing 2 hours of cardio a day to get the fat off. yeah, I know 1000 sounds low but I tried for 8 months to lose fat on 1200 calories and I couldn't. Sucks being so short. If I gain one pound of fat it really shows.

It seems like for men all they do is eat alot and they gain mass but for me when I eat a lot, I gain fat, even when I am lifting heavy and eating clean, and it takes me forever to get the fat off. I've been told to eat no more than 200 calories above maintainence. How do I gain lean muscle mass without gaining too much fat? I know some is inevitable but I want to gain about 8-10 lbs of mass. Any suggestions? I'm 4'9 (144 cm) 94 lbs (42 kilos) 23-25% bodyfat (skinny fat, I look thin with clothes).

It seems like for men all they do is eat alot and they gain mass but for me when I eat a lot, I gain fat, even when I am lifting heavy and eating clean, and it takes me forever to get the fat off. I've been told to eat no more than 200 calories above maintainence. How do I gain lean muscle mass without gaining too much fat? I know some is inevitable but I want to gain about 8-10 lbs of mass. Any suggestions? I'm 4'9 (144 cm) 94 lbs (42 kilos) 23-25% bodyfat (skinny fat, I look thin with clothes).

I can never find anyone close to my height and weight but I'm 4'9, weigh 94 lbs, and it takes we forever to lose any fat on 1200 calories, even if i do 2 hours of cardio. When I went down to 1000-1100 calories I finally lost about 2 lbs a month. I'm about 23% body fat and I was trying to cut for a figure competition. I didn't make my competition weight of 85 lbs. I am trying to bulk now but I gain fat very easily and it takes me forever to get it off so I'm afraid of gaining fat. My maintainence calories seem to be about 1300 when I do moderately cardio. Any suggestions on how much I should eat? I want to gain muscle mass without gaining much fat.

Hi I'm close by in Guam. I'll be going to Manila soon for dental work but I neeed to find a good dentist first. What's it like to be vegan in Manila? Are there any vegan or vegetarian restuarants? I have a lot of filipino friends here, but they are all into eating meat. Welcome to the group!

Thanks Robert I've been looking at your sample bodybuilding diets to get some ideas.

Hi, I've been into fitness for about 10 years, got serious about body building last January and competed in 2 local figure competitions. I didn't enjoy standing in heels and I decided that I wanted to compete in the body building division next year. My last competition was 2 weeks ago. I want to put on about 10 lbs of mass. I'm 4'10 or 147 cm so that should be enough, but I'll monitor how I look, but the coaches here don't think vegans can do that so I'm on my own in terms of diet. I want to put on mass without putting on much fat-it really takes me a long time to get fat off. I'm not really sure how much to eat. This is my first time trying to bulk. If you have any suggestions let me know. I'm also cutting down on unfermented soy.

Hi I'm originally from Japan and I still visit a lot since my family is there. First of all, even if you read Japanese, they are not required to list all the ingredients on the packages so it's better if you eat whole foods. While the fruits and veggies are a bit expensive, they are fresh , seasonal and very tasty compared to places like the US. Organic is getting more popular. Japanese usually eat white rice, but they also have very good brown rice (it's called genmai). Soymilk is called tonyu.(pronounced toe new). The best vegan breakfast is natto(femented soy beans) on top of brown rice, but natto is an aquired taste. As for your face looking thin,I can relate, I'm female but I lose my facial fat first,and look thin while I still have fat to lose on my hips, but its a genetic thing,people lose fat from different places. Good luck in Japan. Everyone is so thin there and its easy to get your mind distorted on what is thin or not. I'm 148 cm 44 kilos but in Japan women my height weigh about 35 kilos so they tell me I'm fat (When I actually have more muscle mass). Ganbatte ne!