acesfull

after following a strict vegan diet in which i did everything right for two years, i came down with pneumonia. of course, when i was diagnosed with pneumonia i couldnt have imagined that i stille be suffering for a whole year after it cleared up. pleurisy, adhesions, aenemia, the list goes on, but im sure no one here wants to hear it. surely you will all assume that i wasnt taking a certain supplement and i was just doing it wrong.

i have to thank you guys though, bc in feb of 09 i posted a couple of threads about how sick i was feeling, and about two people respodned. my memories of interactions on this site mostly consist of being talked down to, though there were a -few- nice people(robert included)

anyway thanks for not giving me any advice, bc i was already brainwashed enough as it was...

in aug of 08, after suffering through severe, unrelenting malaise and illness for 6 months, and two years after i went strict vegan, i ate some eggs. then in order to reconcile what i was doing with my beliefs, i modified my beliefs. i read a book called the vegetarian myth which you should all read and that points out that INDUSTRIAL AGRICULTURE is really whats killing this planet, not animal products.

there were other books and articles that helped open my eyes, but what helped most was the fact that i was literally dying and i felt sick all the time and no matter how many hours i spent researching and no matter how many big cans of vega i bought, i wasnt getting ANY better.

did i mention all the trips to ER throught last year? of course, they could never really put their finger on what was wrong, but i KNOW what was wrong, bc now, 6 months after being back on real food, eating chicken and fish and drinking loads of milk, i feel normal again(well, as close as one could expect after nearly destroying ones body.)

anyway, thanks again everybody for blowing me off, i know the vegan culture is very cliqueish,(bc i was worse than any of you) so its nothing that surprises me, but at the time it kinda hurt, since the whole world was against my diet(rightfully so), and no one on this site was even willing to offer any help(thank god)

i'll leave you with a quote from the book i mentioned.

lierre keith--

"In his book Long Life, Honey in the Heart, Martin Pretchel writes of the Mayan people and their concept of kas-limaal, which translates roughly as “mutual indebtedness, mutual insparkedness.” “The knowledge that every animal, plant, person, wind, and season is indebted to the fruit of everything else is an adult knowledge. To get out of debt means you don’t want to be part of life, and you don’t want to grow into an adult,” one of the elders explains to Pretchel.

The only way out of the vegetarian myth is through the pursuit of kas-limaal, of adult knowledge. This is a concept we need, especially those of us who are impassioned by injustice. I know I needed it. In the narrative of my life, the first bite of meat after my twenty year hiatus marks the end of my youth, the moment when I assumed the responsibilities of adulthood. It was the moment I stopped fighting the basic algebra of embodiment: for someone to live, someone else has to die. In that acceptance, with all its suffering and sorrow, is the ability to choose a different way, a better way.

.... without the check of predators, there will quickly be more grazers than grass. The animals will outstrip their food source, eat the plants down to the ground, and then starve to death, leaving behind a seriously degraded landscape.

The lesson here is obvious, though it is profound enough to inspire a religion: we need to be eaten as much as we need to eat. The grazers need their daily cellulose, but the grass also needs the animals. It needs the manure, with its nitrogen, minerals, and bacteria; it needs the mechanical check of grazing activity; and it needs the resources stored in animal bodies and freed up by degraders when animals die.

The grass and the grazers need each other as much as predators and prey. These are not one-way relationships, not arrangements of dominance and subordination. We aren’t exploiting each other by eating. We are only taking turns.

That was my last visit to the vegan message boards. I realized then that people so deeply ignorant of the nature of life, with its mineral cycle and carbon trade, its balance points around an ancient circle of producers, consumers, and degraders, weren’t going to be able to guide me or, indeed, make any useful decisions about sustainable human culture. By turning from adult knowledge, the knowledge that death is embedded in every creature’s sustenance, from bacteria to grizzly bears, they would never be able to feed the emotional and spiritual hunger that ached in me from accepting that knowledge. Maybe in the end this book is an attempt to soothe that ache myself."

goodbye, good luck, and i hope you read this book when you start falling apart.

i wont be back

i agree, propaganda is the name of the game. youre raised to believe that milk is good for bones and blah blah blah, and you just accept it as fact.

we all know dairy and meat are big business, not to mention healthcare and pharmas on the other side of it...

of course we're all propagandized to an extent. theres no getting away from the lies, and that fact makes it hard to sift through them to get to the truth. and imo that can apply to all facets of life in this society.

it makes me wonder what ideal thats highly reguarded as truth is going to come crumbling down next in my life experience...

omg, thats crazy about your vitamix....

i get that too, the 'youre sick bc youre vegan' attitude. the other day i laid it all out for a friend of mine: i keep a detailed food log, i take supplements, and my diet has improved vastly compared to what i grew up eating. i explained that i dont need to kill animals to live and be healthy. this illness is not due to my diet.

and what did she say?? 'well, it just seems like you need chicken, or fish, or something..'

so ignorant.. [lol ive been wanting to use that smiley for a while now]

anyway, this friend of mine is a very intelligent person, but shes just repeating what everyone else heard and then repeated. WHY do i need to eat a dead chicken?? WHAT is in chicken that i cant get from whole plant foods? as far as fish, im not as educated as i should be, but flax seeds and avocados should have me covered....

and if its not enough that i keep very close tabs on my nutrition intake, ive had bloodwork done, and everythings normal.

i also told a relative of mine in the medical field(surgical assistant) about my illness about a week ago, and she said the same thing shes been saying since i told her i was vegan about 2 months ago.. 'your muscles arent getting enough protein..'

LMAO

in a way, its aggravating. in another way, its funny, bc a lot of what people say just doesnt make sense..

well, looking back i suppose i shouldve named this thread a very rough MONTH.

saturday and sunday i felt absolutely horrible, but yesterday and today im feeling better than i have in a while. still VERY weak, but i dont feel the general malaise thats been weighing me down for so long.

obviously no workouts, not since feb 8. it takes all of my strength just to get groceries, prepare food, take my dog out, shower, etc. i went back to the doctor 7 days ago and they took more blood, administerd a breathing treatment, and game me another 5 day course of antibiotics, a different one. they also gave me an inhaler which i use 4 times a day when im out of breath.

ive also noticed that my chest is aching very mildly. its not the kind of soreness you get from lifting. it feels like its right under the skin. this leads me to believe that i did indeed OVERTRAIN like an IDIOT, and my immune system collapsed for a day or two, resulting in the flu then pneumonia. im infected.

no cough to speak of, and when i do cough its always dry. but i definitley feel like my lungs are a little off...

as i said, today i feel alright. im back at work after another 5 days off, and the walking is getting easier but its still very tough. im used to walking fast and now im stuck walking like im 80 years old.

ive been eating plenty, lots of beans and raw veggies, also lots of soups. im supplementing with flax and hemp seeds, and im eating raw garlic daily. lots of onions too. and of course im taking my multi and sublingual b12. i bought some VEGA as well, and have been drinking that the last few days... good stuff.

so, unless i take a turn for the worse, i will be actively resting and attending work regularly from now on. all i can do is continue taking it one day at a time.........

Pneumonia!!! That sucks!!!

 

I had a mild case 12 years ago and I felt hideous!!!

 

I absolutely agree with collegeB ginger, onions and garlic are awesome and whenever I'm starting to come down with something they're what I reach for

 

Hope you are feeling better soon x

tyvm for the input!

today im feeling as good as i have since i got sick, but im still weak and dont feel quite right. just taking it one day at a time.

i cant wait to get some exercise, i havent broken a sweat in 17 days.

well i finally went to the doctor today and i have pneumonia. unfortunately.

well i thought i was geting better, but evidently my flu has degenerated into bronchitus or something. im getting lots of rest, but i seem to be negating it every time i have to come to work, which involves at least 2 hours of preparation and commuting, and then when i get here, i freeze my ass off bc we dont run the heat here at my job... its lke 50 outside i guess, but in my condition it feels like its 30.

today im wearing lots of layers, and hopefully tommorow i'll be off. im taking an antibiotic now, since my lungs hurt. if it gets worse ill be screwed.

last nite i used what little strengh i had left to stop by the store and grab some soup ingredients.. broccoli, onion, turnip greens, spinach, carrotts, bell pepper... drank some of the juice and right now im having some more. i think its helping. and ive finally stopped drinking so much water. im drinking a ridiculously over priced vitamin water which i dont want but i need something with electrolytes.

oh and im starting to get depressed bc all ive been doing the last 7 days is suffering at work then going home and laying in bed. im sick of it.

thank you, sir. i love a good balloon.

i will indeed hold off on working out for a while, although im starting to go stir crazy from all the sitting and laying.

when it is finally time to come back, im going to be back with a vengeance.

A week ago today, i started not feeling so hot.

during the week leading up to that, (2/1- 2/8) i was working out like crazy, eating a lot, just really pushing the limits. i did over 1200 pushups that week and thats as many as ive ever done in one week, probably more than i did my first 20 years on this earth.

the bad part is, i was sacrificing sleep. i was picking up some extra shifts at my second job, squeezing in morning and afternoon workouts and ending up with 5 hours or less of sleep before i had to get up and start over again.

so i guess i over trained.

monday the 9th rolls around and i can tell im sick. it started with sore throat, runny nose, general respiratory stuff, and it got to the point i had to take nyquil to sleep, although im not a fan of drugs.

3 days pass and the initial symptoms fade, but extreme fatigue sets in, and after some time off work, i had to go back on saturday. bad choice. i ended up having to go sleep in the storage room for an hour just to summon the strength to drive home, and my temp was reading 100.1

so all day yesterday i rested, laid in bed, walked around a little, and continued eating applesauce, oranges, pineapple, a little oatmeal, some celery and ive been taking my multi all through this as well. the first few days i tried to stay on my regular diet, pasta, beans, lots of lentils and greens, but i dont think my digestion was handling it well.

anyway, i think im getting over it. im at work now, and i dont feel like im dying anymore. still really weak, but my appetite is raging and i think im going to throw a bunch of brocccoli and green beans and green peas and brussel sprouts and carrots in a pot and maybe sip on the juice...

any suggestions are appreciated, i guess ive already gone through the worst of it, but i wanted to share with you guys because i have absolutley no support from my family. they immediatley accuse me of being protein defiicient and having a weak system, meanwhile theyre sucking down marlboros and living on canned soups, lunchmeat, white bread, cookies... the stuff the raised me on..

ive got the nutrition records to show exactly what nutrients im getting, but theyre not havin it.

on a more positve note all those pushups have really started to build up substantial muscle in my chest. hopefully some before and after pics are on the way, ill see if i can come up with a camera...

gtg be back later

Hey all,

 

I am full time in school with heavy study loads and little time for much else outside of working out and school. Thinking about anything else just isn't an option.

 

Right now, I'm 6'2, 250 at 14% BF. According to cutting formulas I have seen, I should take in 3000 cal, 250g protein, 200g carb, 133g fat.

 

Sounds good, I'm pretty sure I can do this, but I'm handicapped by being a month-old veggie (sorry not a fully committed vegan yet). I have a handle on solid protein sources and I know I can get my fats from everywhere it seems but ... I think what I'm asking is for some help putting foods together for my time in school. There are days when I'm there from 8 until midnight so nutrition is vital for me.

 

My ultimate goal is to get down to 220lb and I'll be tight.

 

With all that out there, what can I bring with me throughout the day to help me reach these macro ratios?

 

FYI, I start off the day with a 1/2 -3/4 cup oats with 2tbsp honey. Postworkout I have 42g whey and 1 serving of waxymaize. An hour after my workout, I have a 1/2 cup browned tempeh with 3 whole omega-3 eggs, and 3-4 whites. After that, I'm flat out ? when it comes to the rest of the day. I know I need to consume almonds and other nuts for fats, but can I ask for some other help?

 

What else can I bring with me that I can either toss in the microwave or eat as is?

 

I apologize for the scattered thoughts, that's how I roll with my thinking.

 

Thank you all VERY MUCH!!!

well im not sure what kind of stuff youre looking to fill up on, but usually on days i have to work 12 or more hours i have to bring my entire days diet with me when i leave in the morning.

pasta travels well, get a good container to store it in, cook it the night before, shock it with cold water, and have it ready to go in the fridge. ive been sprinkling ground flax on mine and its soo good. and lately ive been slow cooking delicous lima beans(among other varieties) overnight, so its just about 5 min in the morning to get that ready to go. of course vegetables are easy, celery, bok choy, carrots, sweet peppers, green beans, peas.. peanut butter is easy too. oh and tomorrow im bringing corn. alot of corn.

 

It's not for them though. It's for me. Same with bodybuilding. I'm not lifting so I can get chicks or impress meatheads in the gym, I'm there to challenge myself, that's it. I push myself to my limits everytime. I don't care what others are doing. All I'm trying to say is it doesn't matter if your parents like it or not. It matters if you do.

 

 

+1

You can say a plant-based diet.

 

Personally, I don't care for labels. Anything you do is a positive thing, do what you feel comfortable with.

i agree. or you could say 'i try avoid animal products or minimize my use of them.' anyone who gets on your case for not being vegan probably isnt 100% vegan anyway. even if you eat all organic and religiously avoid animal products, its impossible to not benefit from suffering or indirectly exploit animals in the society in which we live.

I ate fish when I was saying I was vegetarian, but just because it's called fish instead of meat, it's still flesh eating and it is not vegetarian - and not vegan at all. Fish consumption skyrocketed +300% in the last 50 years. Millions of fish caught, many of them raised in pens living in water polluted by their own excrements, they're sick and they're feeded with fish flour from the fish of the same specie who died sick (cannibalism) and with grains or other food not meant for fish. Even if the fish is caught in the ocean, flesh of fish is always polluted and intoxicated with mercury. 50% fish contains parasites.

 

Do you eat fish only for the taste? Don't you find it stinks ? If you eat it also for omega-3, there's many vegan source that are better and cleaner : hemp, flax, walnut, etc...

more good reasons to avoid fish.

Richard;

 

We as human beings have the cognitive capacity to make choices based on ethical beliefs and we have the anatomy to support a choice for a vegan diet. Cats don't have our intellectual capacities. A choice for veganism is about us and for us. Vegan diets wouldn't be necessary if not for the changes human beings imposed upon the planet.

 

We removed cats from their natural environment and now they are mostly dependent upon us for their well being. IMHO our first priority should be the health of the cat and not imposing our guilt, our philosophy on creatures who have nothing to do with either.

 

I've had many people tell me that standard pet food from supermarkets is literally garbage and not things that African wild cats would eat. It used to be thought that cats had a lifespan of about 10 - 14 years. People who pay the extra money for specialty health foods for their cats have noticed many of them living to be 20 and with better health. That is how bad commercial cat food is. It is like raising human beings on white bread baloney sandwiches and pixie sticks, then concluding that our max lifespan is 55 years of age.

 

Whatever your brother does, please convince him feed his cats something other than standard commercial cat food. What he ends up paying extra on food he will likely get back in fewer veterinary bills.

well said!

happy birthday!

fish fit pretty easily into the "animal" or "living creature" category, and for that reason i do not eat them.

welcome!

the rant reminded me a lot of the harsh times character.

welcome!

if you want to track what youre eating, FITDAY is a nice, free, calorie counter. its really helped me alot.

wow, thats funny. like the guy said though, it was an intense scene. its got to be a lot of pressure, starring in a movie like that. im not a fan of abuse in any form, but its understandable.

as a side note, american psycho is one of my favorite books and i love picturing bale as bateman. he played that role beautifully.

OK ok, so it messes with your energy and screws up fat loss and prematurely ages you and possibly kills you, but have we all forgotten that smoking makes you look cool? And it gets you additional breaks at work. Sounds like a toss-up to me.

indeed, it makes you look very cool. imo thats why people start in the first place. i guess thats probably why i started. then the addiction takes hold, and you find yourself justifying it in other ways.

a fun game to play is to ask people why they smoke.

my advice to anyone who trys to quit and fails is to take a close look at the circumstances. if you really think about what smoking is, you wont want to smoke anymore. worked for me, but not overnight. it took me awhile to be honest with myself about it.

i cant watch it on my slow work computer..

cant wait to check it out

welcome, its good to have you here!

OH MY GOD! HE'S SO CUTE!!!!!

 

I don't even know what i would do if my little guy got away. I had a scare once, he got off his lead in the backyard, but he was just hiding in the yard. I had a freaking heart attack for a minute! I'm so glad you found him!

thanks

he's my lil' precious.

I'm glad you found him and you're back together again. (Levi is adorable.)

thanks, crash.

i dont know what id have done if he didnt turn up. i got just a little taste of how it feels to not know, to just be in the dark concerning a loved ones whereabouts/safety.