compassionategirl

Hey Dan!! Ya I know it is tough. I ddint mena to put you on the spot at all. I just really wanted to hear your thoughts on it. I agree with prettyu much everything you said in yuor last post. But I should just clarify that I dont only mean cancer. I just used that as an example. It could be any kind of suffering. From Christian point of view, it is hard to explain why our Almighty Father allows children to suffer, whether it is due to illness or whatever. I have struggled with that and with animals suffering, and many times i have, questioned God in moments of anger and outrage that he allows this to continue when he can stop it. But the point about the karma would seem to better explain it. Maybe beings that are suffering in this lifetime had built up bad karma in previous lifetimes. Buddhism has always intrigued me, and like you said, there are so many things in common between Buddhism and Christianity - fundemental principles of kindness and comapssion and do unto others kind of things. But ya you are right when you say that karma in itself is not a Christian beleif. yet it has always struck me as having something truthful about it. I do believe that we shall reap what we sow in this lifetime, which is consistent with both Buddhism and Christianity, right? anyways sorry for rambling, but you are SO right these are very tough questions, and really difficult to answer or explain. Thanks for yor candor and for sharing your thoughts. peace

Damn I wish I was there with you all. P.S. I know "damn" isnt very Christian of me, but hey, I never said I was perfect, let alone a perfect Christian!!!

yes, I dont doubt that for a second. Sorry if it sounded like I was.

Hi DanDz, I respec and am very moved by the strength of your Faith in our Father. But, I must say that what you have described above does NOT explain why God maks innocent children, or animals, suffer. YOU say that we are punished by God out of love. Presumably, we are punished by God in order to be improved in some way. That makes sense when it comes to sinning humans. C. S. Lewis, in his book, The problem of Pain, also addressed this and essentially argued that people either deserve the suffering that they receive by their Creator OR are in someway improved by it. But the foregoing begs the question, why do little kids suffer and die of cancer? What was their sin? Same with animals. WHy does God allow millions of animals to go to their slaughter without stopping it - surely he can. So it seems then that not only are those who are sinners punished by their Father, but morally innocent creatures are as well. My lack of understanding of why God can permit innocent children and animals to suffer has been the one thing that has truly at times, made me question my religion. I mentioned somewhere that I had almost "lost my religion" because of this very conundrum. It is, it seems, inexplicable, even your theory doesnt explain it. C. S. Lewis in the same book had a whole chapter on trying to understand why God allows innocent animals to suffer. He said, animals neither DESERVE the pain, nor are they "improved" by it, which, according to him, makes animal suffering an ESPECIALLY vexing problem. The only thing that I can say about that is that God works in mysterious ways. We cannot ever presume to know and understand exactly how God works and why s/he does ALL the things s/he does. But that is what faith essentially is - trust in the unknown, the unprovable, the inexplicable. I know that this is unsatisfactory to many people, and as a result, they have lost faith in God (assuming they had faith before). I would love to hear your thoughts, Dan, on this inexplicable phenomenon of animal suffering and the suffering of innocent chilren. peace

Daywalker, do you and lelle live driving distance from each other? Have you guys hooked up yet? Lelle just moved recently - is he closer to you now?

Seriously guys, How about somewhere like Cancun mexico, or Jamaica or somewhere truly tropical and vacationy. BUt I am up for anywhere. I rally hope that we all take this 2006 get together seriously and start saving up for it now. It would rock if most if not all of us could make it, and I know that Rob is serious about this veganbodybuilding 2006 get together! Cannot wait. START SAVING $$ NOW GUYS!

' I am laughing WITH with you, not at you, you joker!!!! But you already knew that, I am sure!!

Kourt, make sure that you eat a healthy and balanced vegan diet and that you are getting all the nutrients your body needs to thrive. Rob is a greaty resource for that? YOu hand around with him often, yes? nat

Thanks for taking the time to expand on your thoughts J. peace

Not a chance, Michael.

HI Kourtney, Yes I had posted on this thread BEFORE I saw your post on the Meet your Meat Thread. Anyway, like I said there, thanks for watching meet your meat and showing it to your family since they dont understand why you want to be vegan!!! You are clearly a beautiful woman both on the outside AND on the inside. I know you meant that you wouldnt go out and actually kill something with your bare hands. But I always tell meat eaters (I know your not one anymore) that there is no integrity in paying somebody else to do something that you cannot do yourself. YOU are so lucky to be close with Rob - he can truly inspire veganism in almost anybody!!! (The two things that really sealed my own personal vegan fate were Meet your Meat video and Rob Cheeke). peace

What is the difference between pimples and "spots"? And also, so you guys are all saying that apple vingegar is good for DRY skin AND you can drink it AND put it directly on the problem skin and it is really good for you? Wouldnt it make your body ph more acidic though - which is a bad thing (maybe Daywalker being a physician can answer this one)? And also, I heard rinsing your hair with apple vinegar also makes it nice. Is this true too? thanks!!

What ddi your last roomate do to your cats? Does Rob play with your cats and everything? pet them? Brush them? Talk to them? Your cats I dont think can find a better, more compassionate person with whom to room with than Robert. You know you can trust that he has your "cats back" so to speak!!!

Hi Mike, YOu keep saying you are hesitant about going "fully" vegan. May I ask why? What are your currently eating that is non-vegan. and why are you hesitant on refraining from eating it? YOU and DanDz are RIGHT ON. I beleive with my entire heart and soul that living kindly and mercifully, especially toward innocent and defenseless creatures, PLEASES God more than most Christians care to admit. peace

When I used the term "natural" I meant are we physiologically designed to eat meat. The evidence, as neatly and matter-of-factly presented to us in the chart hero posted, strongly, indeed, absolutely, suggests we are not. Our physiolgical design doest even support the idea of humans as omnivores. This is further bolstered, in my view, my good ol' common sense, as Bizarro at the link I posted bluntly describes. peace

Sounds like they would make staying in bed worth while.

NO I havent heard of him, but that commercial is so stupid that it made me shake my head and ask, "What is WRONG with people?" can they really be that inane?

dude youre a ninja, nothing is as cool as you. ninjas effin rock. Ya man I agree!!

I agree. Meat eating Christians are prolly the worst offenders of this. But do you think I am picking and choosing because I beleive that God would be vegan and that he wanted us all to be vegan in genesis? Please explain.

ah but a thread entitled 'would god be vegan?' is inviting criticism because the above statement infers the existence of god. coincidentally, the title of my last essay for my philosophy course was 'Is there good reason to believe in an intelligence who has designed the universe'. I am shocked at the implied comparison of a leprocan (or however you spell it) to God. [/b] YOu may take the topic of this thread as an invitation to attack or question the existence of God, and as an invitation to ridicule those who do believe, but I choose not to take your attack of the existance of God as an invitation or justification, in turn, to attack your athiesm. There are ways to present our beliefs, Christian and athiest, without resorting to the mocking of the other person him/herself. As long as people are not wantonly and gratuitously hurting other beings, freedom of choice, lifestyle, expression etc etc. is fine. I have a bigger problem with meat eating Chistians than I do with vegan athiests (alll else being equal, of course), in case there was any doubt. Now that statement will appaul many Christians who are not vegan. But too bad for them because there lack of empathy for animals appauls me. [/color][/color][/b] if someone started a thread entitled 'would leprechauns be vegan?' im pretty sure a fair few people would state that they didnt believe in them and found the whole idea silly. i am afraid that as an athiest i feel that way. you cannot ask a question, based on a contraversial assumption and expect people not to respond to the assumption. as regards your beliefs, you cannot justify them unless you constantly challenge them. AGREED. So challenge them, but stating an opposite conclusion without evidence or an explanation of how you arrive at that conclusion is not going toteach anybody anything. discussions like this are valuable to anyone who reads them, athiest, agnostic or whatever. i do have a question though. you seem well versed on the bible nat, so do you believe it all literally? i struggle to take people seriously when they pick and choose which bits they believe, according to their priorities. maybe it is that exact reason that causes 99% of christians to ignore any bits refering to respecting animals. I would not call myself well-versed in the Bible at all. But I do know enough, I think, about it to say that veganism, or kindness in general to animals, (human and non) would please God, and the opposite wouldnt, to say the least. As far as the literalistist approach to the Bible, I not sure. I have struggled with this and continue to do so. But by all means tell me your thoughts, on all of this, and explain them and who you arrived at them, but just dont go mocking somebody for beleiving in a God that according to you is a joke. That just aint cool Jon jonathan P.S. But I hope U realize that I still think you rock, notwithstanding any of this.

I think Michael is the one who mentions this. Hard to keep track sometimes of who is saying what I know. I have made an error or two myself lately (sorry guys).!! Anyway, Sirdle, I get my B12 by drinking shakes using soymilk. Fortified soymilk offers about 50% of your daily requirements in only one glass. Not sure about B6 though. And I commend your efforts to transition to veganism in an informed, educated, well researched manner. You will be in a greata position soon to educate others on healthy veganism!!! You rock . And I am dying to see how much you have changed since that picture of yours. P.S. I hope your neice's veg*nism is going well and is being supproted and encouraged by her parents!!

I dont think Daywalker would either!!!

Welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow Hero what an amazing resource!!! Damn, THANKS A MILLION for posting that. IT pretty much makes the case slam dunk doesnt it!!!!! P.S. Richard, I cannot tell from what you and hero posted whether or not you actually clinked on the link and read that short short article, but everything you mention in your post is also mentioned by bizarro. I encourage everybody to read it, and I am anxious as to your thoughts on it. Here is that link again: http://bizarro.com/vegan/vegan_carnivores.htm and here is a page with quotes and info from both medical professional and professors, AS WELL AS former American meat inspectors turned vegan after the shocking things they have witnessed in the course of their "meat inspections". I love reading quotes http://bizarro.com/vegan/vegan_quotes.htm

I had the SAME reaction to this that you did Vamp!!! Right then and there, I made up my mind to go vegan. I felt (and still feel) the same sense of shock, urgency and "woken up" feeling that is conveyed by the tone of your message. As far as I was concerned, I was morally compelled to do so - I saw myself as having no other choice after having seen all that. I havent looked back since. My skin cleared up, my allergies just disappeared into thin air, etc. etc. etc. The anecdotal and statistical /clinical health benefits are numerous. I have never felt better, never been healthier, never before felt more "attune" and sensitive to the needs of others and to nature in general. An evolved sense of consciousness is such an amazing feeling!!! Peace