compassionategirl

editted / deleted because i totally think i misunderstood skinny dipper.

Hey Jonathan, welcome back!!! Ya I agree vegeterains FULL STOP. The reason I specified pesco veg or veg that eat chicken is because they are the only animal eaters I have met that claim to be vegetarian. But of course it is true (and rather as plain as the nose on my face I might add) that if you are eating anything that once had a face and a mother, you are NOT vegetarian!!! What exactly leads people to conclude otherwise has always perplexed me. Hope you had a great time!

"A fish is not a vegetable" is something that I have said about a hundred times over the last two years. Just the other day, somebody told me that they were vegetarian because they didnt eat red meat. Huuuuuullllloooooooooooooooooo?????!!!!!!! This is another one of my pet peeves- vegetarians that eat fish, or vegetarians that eat chicken. Pesco-vegetarian is an oxy moron people!!!!

I have no idea what "synaptic connections" are. care to explain? But it sounds like either your value assigning is contingent upon the size of the creature or among intelligence of the creature. ???

The point is, why kill when you dont have to? Nobody here i dont think is saying that let the tick be on your body, and risk your own health. Nobody is nuts on these boards - nobody is saying live among thousands of disease spreading cockroaches just to be a nice guy. But choose a humane course of action - one that results in less suffering or killing. Frankly, i dont think that anything less is consistent with veganism. There must be a better way than extermination, although i dont know for sure because i have never had to look into it. I dont think that squishing bugs, especially when you could have easily removed them or kept them out by other non-lethal means, is consistent with veganism. And, arguably, bugs are even MORE defenseless than the animals you mention - cows, gorillas, etc etc. And, in the word's of one peacemaking man, the more helpless a creature is, the more deserving it is of protection by man from the cruelty of man. Yet, we dont like them and even many of us vegans dont readily accept them into our circle of compassion because they are even MORE different from us than other animals. And there it creeps up again, that "They are different and therefore inferior attitude" that I detest so much. I can just see the look upon the faces of specieist individuals reading this - "Oh my god is she saying that my life is worth the same as a cockroach's life????!!!!!!." if that is how you are interpretting this, you have missed the point. Compassion and empathy with those that are unfortunate enough to be born non-human, that is the point people, so just chill with the specieist outrage Bug squishing vegans annoy me

This is a good point, and one that i have neglected to mention. So let me set the record straight: Domestically, slaugherhouses are dens of death not just for animals, but for the people that work in them. Slaugherthouses have the highest rate of injury, the highest turnover rate, the highest repeat-injury rate, and the highest rate of accidental death of any industry in the country. Slaugherthouse workers have 9 times the injury rate of coal miners in Appalachia. A few years ago, the Center for Public Integrity, a congressional watchdog group, released a report called, "Safety Last: The Politics of E. COli and Other Foode-Borne Killers." THis report points out that slaugheruouses are continaully searching for replacement workers nd have to bus people up from Mexico and Central America to slaughterhouses in Iowa, Mnnesota, and elsewhere. "Just as easily as the meat-packing companies court and transport immigrant labor to their Mid Western plants," the report explains, "they betray them, turning them and tehir families over to the immigration authorities. And in the ultimate act of cruelty and coruption, the companies then seek out the lucky ones that escaped the immigration raids to hire them back to stand on the killing floor again." The same point was made in a more recent book called Fast Food Nation by investigative journalist Eric Schlosser. But all that the foregoing does is lend further PROOF POSITIVE that the meat and dairy industry is vile, unethical, immoral, untrustworthy, evil, greedy and selfish. But, I am sorry but I dont give a damn who you are or what hardships that you face, there is STILL NO EXCUSE for the appalling, vile, evil acts of sadism that have been caught on NUMEROUS tapes at NUMEROUS different slaugherthouses and companies. If you have the heart to spit tobacco into the eyes of an innocent and already terrified animal, JUST FOR SOME SICK FUN, I WONT be crying for you Argentina no matter what hell hole country you came from or no matter how many dependants you have. There is simply NO EXCUSE for what is captured in these exposes. None whatsoever. I am sure you agree with me there Will. And it is naive anad foolish to think that these type of cruel acts are the exception rather than the norm. This would be a gross miscalculation. The evidence is abundant, and it is backed up by common sense. Meat is evil. In every single way that matters.

So to all you people out there that are still in denial about the meat industry - you see the forces that are trying to SILENCE animals AND silence the people who are concerned about consumer health? LIke I have always maintained, these industries DONT give a DAMN about consumer health, let alone about any basic animal welfare. All they care is about making money and keeping costs as low as possible so as to maximize their profit margins, even if that means that people have died because of mad cow disease - which could have been totally prevented if there was any place for ethics and morality in these industries. the forces working against truth are still as strong as ever, and people's lives, literally, are on the line. The biggest example of organized crime are the meat and dairy industries!!! Wake up, and go vegan, before its too late. Do it for your health, do it for the animals, do it as a matter of principle, JUST DO IT! Starting now. peace.

okay i have some great news!!! it looks like my original info is still correct. The texas ranchers LOST their appeal and are not permitted to appeal anywhere again!!!! For an overview and details of the circumstances surrounding this fascinating lawsuit, go here and read all about it!!!! http://www.madcowboy.com/01_BookOP.000.html ha, you SUCK you damn cowboys!!!!

Not that I can recall. This was some years ago but from what I can remember they won. Am I recalling wrong? If what you are saying is true, Brenden, then the animals were further silenced by this outcome And to College B: If Brendan's info is the most recent up to date info, then here is another thing that you can bring into your presentation about how animals are treated as a minority group by the laws. But PLEASE somebody tell me that the cattle ranchers lost on appeal.

Oops, that's not what I intended with saying it isn't easy for anyone. It's obviously easy for someone if animal agribusiness is so lucrative. I was trying to show how surprising it was to see a farm boy, who you would expect to be accustomed to slaughter, become so affected by the slaughterhouse. I guess, however, I work from the assumption that everyone is basically good - or at least starts off that way - but either by cultural indocrination or habit loses sympathy toward animals somewhere along the line and becomes numb to the grim reality at hand. oh okay now I see what you meant. actually, this is a really good point. the ones in the industry that actually had a conscience and a soul have truned veg and many more will too i am sure. Virgil Butler, for example, was employee of the month at Tyson Slaugherhouses, which is the slaughterhouse that is exposed in one of the videos I provide above. He is now vegetarian, goiong towards vegan. I personally know somebody who also worked at the slaugherhouse like did your sister's ex - it took him only three weeks to quit not only the job, but quit eating meat altogether. and, of couse, there is Howard Lyman - former cattle rancher turned vegan. This is the guy that exposed the meat industry for what it really was on the Oprah Winfrey show. In response to his inside knowledge of the industry, which he shares with the viewers, Opraah proclaimed "I will never eat another hamburger again." They were both sued by the American Ranchers Asssociation, because after that show aired, beef sales plummetted, but Howard Lyman and Oprah won in court . I am no great fan of Oprah Winfrey, but this wasnt just a victory for her - it was a victory for the animals and a great loss for the beef ranchers of America peace y'all

definitely, your passion for clean living and your 6 pack tells me that this is what you were meant to do. i think that you will have an extremely successful career as a a personal trainer, and keep promoting veganism too!! I predict that you will be well-known in the industry in no time.

Actually, I use flax oil in my salads instead of olive. If you shake it up with salt and vinegar, it is perfectly doable.

hey Ronnie kray, since you are a Morrisey fan you prolly already know this but he is an animal advocate and at least vegetarian (if not fully vegan).

So happy that you decided to introduce yourself and join us. welcome. p.s. is that you on the cover of that mag?

Topher, What fool would dump a gem like you? And as far as the video goes, you dont need to watch it. Your conscience has already compelled you to go vegan. You dont need convincing. if they are hell to watch, imagine how the animals in them must have felt before they were lucky enough to die?

yes, unfortunately, many people couldnt do any of these things on the video with their own bare hands (which is obviously a GOOD reflection on them, not a bad one!!). but, i ask those people, where is the integrity in paying somebody else to do what you cannot even bare to watch, let alone do yourself? peace

Your welcome. I disagree with your assertion that "IT's not easy for anyone." In fact, this is grossly inaccurate, and lends support to the false notion that the meat industry "isnt so bad", "isnt so evil", "does what it has to do to survive." Nothing could be further from the truth. Not everybody in the meat and dairy industry is as sensitive and compassionate and guilt-ridden as your sister's ex, and please dont make the mistake of thinking that they are. This would be a great injustice for animals. Most of the workers in this industry are callous, sadistic and evil animal rapers and torturers: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=virgil http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=perdue This is why J. Lo is a cold-hearted, evil, superficial bitch. She has seen these videos and thinks feeling "glamorous" is more important, no matter what the cost is to the animals: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=fur_farm http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=j_lopez Think wool isnt so bad because animals dont need to die for it? Think again: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=wool This is what the vivisection industry DOESNT want you to know: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=covance http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=malish This is what is wrong with Thanksgiving turkey:http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=t_giving This is what is wrong with animals made to perform in circuses or put on display at zoos:http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=ringling-bros This is what is wrong with buying a pet from a pet shop: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=charlize-theron-pupply-mill Please instead save one of them. They dont deserve to die like this: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=yadkin_county http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=acgs_web This is the life of a dairy cow and her calves: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=unhappy-cows Have you ever had foie gras ? This is what you have been missing out on: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=foie_gras_long This is what is wrong with eggs: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=inside_egg Think kosher meat is guaranteed to be more humane. Here is a wake up call: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_long Here is what Al-Jazeera DIDNT want to air: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=al_jazeera_wool The urgency of the cause should now be crystal clear. PLEASE STOP THESE ATROCITIES NOW. GO VEGAN FOR LIFE, AND ASK OTHERS TO DO THE SAME. THESE VOICELESS, VULNERABLE AND INNOCENT ANIMALS NEED ALL THE FRIENDS THEY CAN GET. Who can blame vegans for being pissed off and fed up? None of the above will change until DEMAND for these "items" are so significantly dimished that it is no longer profitable to manufacture them. Please do your part by removing your support of these industries. Buy ethical products from ethical companies. PEACE

ya that is one of the books that changed my life. I also recommend Food Revolution by John Robbins, and "Breaking the Food Seduction" by Neil Barnard. Great stuff.

I think that I would move out of there, rather than be responsible for the death of numerous bugs - even though they are ing and make my hair stand up! It sucks to be a cockroach. They certainly didnt ask to be born cockroaches - i am sure every non-human would have wanted to be born human. They werent as lucky as we were though. I cannot hold that against them - its not their fault. I would feel extremely guilty for being responsible for an extermination, but that is not to say that I dont mind living with cockraoches. I am actually a germ o phobic obssessive compulsive germ freak. So i would have to move out of there. My friend's backyard had loads of field mice. Instead of calling an exterminator, she just moved out. As far as kollision's "jadedness" when it comes to humans, I can easily understand where he is coming from. Humans are the one species that have caused tremendous suffering and destruction in this world, to other humans, to animals, and to the environment. . As one quote goes, "Man, do not pride yourselves on your superiority to the animals, for they are innocent, and you with all your greatness defile the earth." I am sympathetic to this sentiment. Human nature, GENERALLY, is selfish and greedy (obviously this is a HUGE generalization). How many people have seen Meet your Meat and are STILL not vegan? I rest my case.

If its good enough for your stomach, it should be good enough for your eyes. Make sure your speakers are on because it has narration which makes it more informative. http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=meet_your_meat peace, man, peace.

Wow Sirdle I LOVE that quote from Leonardo Da Vinci. Where did you find that one?

Cheers Koll!! I'm having some cider right now and toasting to you!

Okay...let me be perfectly clear about this. There is NOTHING in a non-human animal's milk that is FOR human animals. Cow's milk is for calves...not humans. if people really think about it and put their minds to it, then it should repulse them. hello???!!!!!....You are drinking the milk of another species. talk about unnatural. Nature intended the milk for calves, not humans. Raising your kids vegan is not only NOT child abuse, but the best thing you can do for them, if done properly and in an informed matter. But as somebody said, you have to inform and educate yourself about how to raise vegan kids. I know a few people that have healthy thriving kids on a vegan diet - kids that are healthier than their meat eating counterparts. For example, they dont have allergies, they dont get ear infecions, they have HEALTHY eating habbits, which will serve them well later on in their lives, etc etc. I recommend browsing the website for the Physicians Committee of Responsible medicine at www.pcrm.org. They have lots of info on the "myths" about dairy, raising vegan kids, sugar addiction, etc. And, tdouglas is a good example of somebody we have all met on cyberspace that is living breathing proof than an INFORMED and proper vegan diet is appropriate in all cycles of life - from when one is in a woman's womb, all the way to adulthood. peace

Hi Daywalker!! Wow, you have an impressive body. You will love it here. Welcome to "Team Vegan". Natalie