to much protein?

[RawVgn]

I definitely notice a difference when I combine well. When I became raw, my system became much more sensitive to food. I think of a very sensitive digestive system, and nose, as good things: they are natures warning systems guiding me to greater health, vitality, and longevity. Like any serious practitioner, I have become attuned to my art-and I have robust health, to the depth of my being, to show for it.

[DV]

This is a thread that has ventured beyond the realm of nutrition and into the world of "raw foodism and lifestyle." This is an example of why serious vegan bodybuilders are no longer posting on this forum. IMHO. This forum seriously needs to be renamed.

[nobbi]

This is a thread that has ventured beyond the realm of nutrition and into the world of "raw foodism and lifestyle." This is an example of why serious vegan bodybuilders are no longer posting on this forum. IMHO. This forum seriously needs to be renamed.

 

Maybe it is YOU, who seriously need to post in another forum!

 

And what about 'serious vegan bodybuilders'??? If I look at the pictures of I'm your Man I see a well trained muscular body, which seems to be the result of serious bodybuilding and intelligent use of food. Even if his opinion doesn't match your opinion, you cannot say that he is avoiding a discussion. You do! By just saying 'are you stoned?' That's what I call not serious and not professional.

[Richard]

Yo,I didn't mention food combining, I was replying to the notion that you shouldn't combine macronutrients, which is what was suggested prior to my post. Maybe there has been a misunderstanding, but to me there is a huge difference between talking about food-combining, and macronutrient-combining. Since it's almost impossible to avoid macronutrient-combining since most foods have more than one macronutrient in it, which is my point.

[DV]

 

Maybe it is YOU, who seriously need to post in another forum!

 

And what about 'serious vegan bodybuilders'??? If I look at the pictures of I'm your Man I see a well trained muscular body, which seems to be the result of serious bodybuilding and intelligent use of food. Even if his opinion doesn't match your opinion, you cannot say that he is avoiding a discussion. You do! By just saying 'are you stoned?' That's what I call not serious and not professional.

 

Now, there's an idea.

 

I wasn't just referring to I'm Your Man's posts. And he needs no help in defending himself or debating. He and I have been doing it here long enough that we don't have to be "serious and professional" in our debates.

 

I agree that I'm Your Man has a muscular body. However, he is not a bodybuilder and has given no indication that he is bodybuilding/competing. Indeed, the vast majority of people on this forum are not into bodybuilding and the answers to many questions reflect that. It is very difficult to find good answers about vegan bodybuilding nutrition on this forum because many people, who have no idea what bodybuilding is, jump into discussions about nutrition. Since this is the case, I think the name of the forum - veganbodybuilding & fitness - is a bit misleading these days. It started off as veganbodybuilding.com and then became vegan bodybuilding & fitness (but with the same address). Perhaps vegan fitness & whatever is a better description these days. There is no longer a focus on bodybuilding and there are few serious bodybuilders who remain.

[beforewisdom]

DV;

 

People take information for granted.

 

You have to spend your time to dispense it. Time you could be spending on yourself.

 

If they are willing to listen and you enjoy helping them, great.

 

If not, it is their life, their health, their thwarted or lesser success and their problem.

 

Life is too short and valuable to waste bits of it on people who don't want to hear it.

Edited September 27, 2008 by beforewisdom

[offense74]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b145/offense74/graph2.gif

 

The picture above is taken from a raw food type of site. It's very scientific since it's a graph.

Edited September 27, 2008 by offense74

[DV]

Offense and BeforeWisdom, I love you two.

[Im Your Man]

eheh, this graph is a joke but based on what everybody knows : life gives life; living foods engender life. Processed food deprives your organism from vital nutrients. Dead foods destroy life.

 

DV is right when she says I'm not a bodybuilder. I'm just maintaining a decent lean mass with some small loads that I find here and there or with bodyweight exercises once in a while. I've been training in a gym more seriously, 5 to 6 days a week, and with a complete set of weights at home, but that was 2 years ago. I'm now planing to get back to the gym and bodybuild this winter I hope, as soon as I can go away from the place where I presently live.

 

Concerning this forum, I really like it. I'm like DV and would like that more posts concern bodybuilding; I myself rarely post on this subject, because I'm not seriously training at this period of my life, but I will probably write more often about bodybuilding when I will get back to this. If less and less people write about bodybuilding, that's sad but that's how things are.

 

Anyway, most of the time, posts related to bodybuilding are in the section it deserves. DV should not be surprised that we are talking about nutrition in the Health & Nutrition section. I agree that this thread was originatly about proteins. I don't know who, when or how we started to talk about food combining, but sometimes it happens. Perhaps it is me who mentioned about food combining and since it's a matter that interests everybody they all came to ask questions, to comment and to debate. There's already a thread about food combining and a whole section for raw foodism, where we can continue this discussion; which I will do now, because I know why food combining should be seriously considered by everybody and I'll write it soon over there.

[offense74]

Offense and BeforeWisdom, I love you two.

Right back at ya'

"Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them."

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

[Im Your Man]

Offense and BeforeWisdom, I love you two.

Right back at ya'

"Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them."

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

Good, we now all know what people write when they're bored and got nothing intelligent to say We see also that when a group of incredulous ignorants don't have any serious arguments against a proved theory, they rely on jokes, stupidity and allusions to legends and other myths to try to ridiculise it. Like the arguments of carnivores agaisnt veganism, or scientists and doctors against the Hygienic system. It is ridicule because there are evidence of the validity of good food combining rules, I've already said it in the appropriate thread but it has been ignored, of course. I will tell it again, because people never understand the first time, that it why in Hollywood movies and commercials for dumb people, the actors always repeat twice every lines or keywords.

[DV]

Offense, thanks for bringing humor and intelligence to this thread!

[liftandcode]

Yo, DV I still think there are some valid bodybuilding type discussions on here. Most aren't, but some certainly are. Yes, it is true most raw foodists aren't bodybuilders, but there are many people interested in BBing here on the board. You, GAIA and Robert are 3 that immediately come to mind. Please don't abandon the forum as I enjoy your posts a lot and you have a lot of knowledge to spread.

 

That being said, the scientific method is not easily by a lot of people, so it can be upsetting sometimes . However, I think I'm Your Man does know a lot about the holistic stuff and he believes in it. While he may not have direct scientific proof, if the things he are doing work for him and keep him healthy and happy, he can be a great influence to those around him who may not have BBing inspirations but really need to be healthier. Not everything is capable of being proven with our limited understanding of physiology and methods for experimentation/detection.

 

I often find some of his posts ridiculous and counterintuitive to my own preconceived notions about certain nutritional facts, but that doesn't mean he is wrong. Hell, over the last few years I've realized my own nutritional path that I was taking when I was thinking of competing 7 years or so ago was horrendously harmful and dangerous, so I have tried to stop being quick to shoot things down just because they seem wrong.

 

Finally, NO, it is not your job or anyone else's job to prove the theories of food combining wrong, just like it isn't my job to disprove that whales are excellent at calclulus. The onus of proof is on those making the statement of fact.

 

Oh, and Offense, I love that Bertrand Russel Quote

[DV]

Thanks for the kind words, Liftandcode.

[Vegan Joe]

I'm still trying to figure out if that Unicorn is still evolving around with that Teapot?

Dang, I'd better go back to the simple, Sugar.

[Im Your Man]

great post Liftandcode, I agree with everything. Except one thing, when you say "thses things work for me", it's not totally true, while I believe proper food combining is the optimum way of digesting for maximum assimilation of the nutrients and health, I'm not even an ardent practitioner nor a fanatic of it, only about 1/3 of my meals are in accordance with those rules. I still enjoy some cookies, cakes, or mock meat w/ rice and things like that.

 

Oh and I'm curious to know: which are my posts that some of you find ridiculous ? I'm sure part of this is due to a misuse of English or some particular words. If not, look at my signature, that is why sometimes it looks ridiculous

[Im Your Man]

BTW, there is evidence of the merits of proper food combining. I have so many that it is too long to write them on the forum, I have at least ten proofs and it's 5 pages long, so I'll write these on my blog and will provide a link soon here. In the mean time, I suggest people to start gathering facts proving that a diet that mixes randomly nutrients is effective and doesn't cause any disease . Because it is this diet that must prove its effectiveness, not the Hygienic system, which is the same then animals and that Nature teach. Human invented the "balanced diet" and started to make recipes and cooking, now he should prove that it's better or equivalent than the natural way. It is not the nature to prove if she is correct or not.

 

*Edit: I found this thread "the rationale of food combining", if we want to discuss food combining instead of proteins.

[DV]

The best way to prove that food combining is healthier than the way the rest of us eat would be to test by comparing a very large sample of people who follow the food combining diet against those who don't, and then study them for years. You would have to control for age, sex, genetic background, lifestyle, smoking, drinking, exercise, weight, amount of overall calories, macronutrient breakdown, micronutrient breakdown, geography, etc. It would be best if the food combiners had been eating that way since weaning from breast milk (you probably wouldn't want any formula fed babies in your study). The study would need to be long enough to follow the subjects into the years when most chronic disease of nutrition occurs - well into their 50s and 60s.

 

Of course, you could do a less rigorous study with relatively new food combiners. However, you would still need to control for age, sex, lifestyle, exercise, smoking, drinking, etc. And you would need to follow the subjects for years.

 

Or, you could regurgitate bogus "claims" by someone else and throw careful study of theory out the window.

 

Either way, I will be looking forward to this proof!

[Vegan Joe]

Proof # 1. Hay, monkeys do it! LOL

eeeekkkk, you're not going to eat that termite are you?

[DV]

Joe, I knew there was a scientist hidden in you.

[Im Your Man]

eheh, just wait and you'll see, it is actually much simpler than that BTW, it should be like you said for all studies made on nutrition (not only for studies on food combining) in order to provide valid results. They observe how an element react in rats or dogs, or worse, in a test tube, then they say : look, red wine is the fountain of youth ! They say it gives better heart and arteries, but they don't mention the nocive effects on the other organs and the whole body, as if our body was just an heart w/ arteries. They isolate a vitamin and watch how it reacts with another vitamin, and presume it will do the samething in the human body. Or they study for years 2 large groups like you said, but they don't do everything you said; so how the hell they arrive to the conclusion that this vitamin or food can reduce the risks of heart attack by 20% or prolong life by 2 years longer ? Just As if there wasn't a ton of factors to take into account. To isolate elements and watch them, or worse to observe just one of the elements, will never give meaningful results, they need to study all the elements as a whole. And they claim they understand how things work.

[offense74]

I don't believe it is my duty to explain how the scientific method works on a web forum. It should be taught in school. All the debates in the raw food forum (and in other places in this forum) regarding health are between those who understand the method and those who don't.

To me the knowledge of how it works is the most precious knowledge I have and almost all of what I do in terms health, environment and awareness in general derives from this fundamental knowledge. I'd feel crippled if I didn't understand it.

[liftandcode]

Thanks for the kind words, Liftandcode.

 

Any time. Keep up the good posts.

[liftandcode]

great post Liftandcode, I agree with everything. Except one thing, when you say "thses things work for me", it's not totally true, while I believe proper food combining is the optimum way of digesting for maximum assimilation of the nutrients and health, I'm not even an ardent practitioner nor a fanatic of it, only about 1/3 of my meals are in accordance with those rules. I still enjoy some cookies, cakes, or mock meat w/ rice and things like that.

 

Oh and I'm curious to know: which are my posts that some of you find ridiculous ? I'm sure part of this is due to a misuse of English or some particular words. If not, look at my signature, that is why sometimes it looks ridiculous

 

I don't know which posts I find ridiculous. I just don't know a ton about raw foodism, and I certainly don't have the patience to practice it at this time in life, being a reasonably new vegan and just trying to do that well. So sometimes the discussions seem ridiculous to me just because they are counterintuitive to me. But they aren't ridiculous in the sense that they are nonsense, they just sometimes seem that way at first glance from someone not well versed in them. However, I enjoy all of your posts as well. The more knowledge the better. Keep it up. And I'll try not to be too insulting

[RawVgn]

Nearly everyone food combines-they just don't know it. Why is it customary to eat salad before heavy meat entrees? Why are fat laden deserts eaten last?

 

As to claims of scientific ability, I have an engineering degree from a top ten engineering school; last time I checked, that makes me a scientist, and I'm a hard core raw foodist and natural hygienist. Dr Graham, who wrote a very influential book on raw nutrition, has a bachelors degree in nutrition and a Doctorate in Chiropractic Medicine including far more nutritional education than MDs receive. So once again, your unsubstantiated pronouncements are unconvincing.

 

The scientific evidence supporting raw food consumption over cooked is overwhelming. Incredible health improvements are routine for people who go low-fat raw. As a person who has been SAD, vegetarian, quality vegan, and low-fat raw, I can saw, without reservation, raw is by far the best diet for health and vigor. And I believe that time will prove that raw is also the best for healthy longevity.