So confused- low carb or vegan again??

[dunaway1]

Most of my life I have been vegetarian/vegan, even tried 100% raw for a month. I normally feel really good on a vegan diet, however I always craved sugar alot!!! So I would give into the craving and get all those highs and lows and would then end up eating junkfood . 5 days ago I started a low carb diet(yuck,,I know ....right?) In one way I got off sugar which is good, but I 'm tired and still have no energy and really wonder how this could be healthy..My reason for this post is I would like to know if any of you have experience this before and if so how did you revamp yourself and get back on track being a vegan and be successful at it? Meat and dairy are so not my thing I am literally chocking it down..more fat than protein, but I am desparate to lose 30lbs, ut i also want to be healthy!! I have also come across articles stating how wheat is disease causing and other starches, and that low carb is healthy and helps better? How is that or is it just media BS!! Please someone let me know your thoughts and opinions!!

[Katabatic]

By sugar, do you mean granulated sugar/fructose syrup, or fruits? How's your fruit intake? I mean, if you have sugar cravings, try increasing your fruits. Well, most should be eating lots anyway.

[dunaway1]

I mean real sugar, like gummi bears, hot tamales, spice drops...you know the good stuff(haha) I did eat alot of fruit, but maybe not as much as I thought or should have.. What do you guys suggest?? Isn't low carb unhealthy?? I think so, but I keep finding tons of info stating that its better...why is that? thanks

[Katabatic]

stating that its better...why is that?

Simple: everybody has their own opinion. They very widely and they all may be right to some extent. But, you'll go crazy trying to sort out who has "the truth." Do stuff that works for you rather than for somebody else.

[seitan_man]

I am not aware that wheat is disease causing, meat and dairy yes, but I don't see what the problem is with wheat, other than some people having an allergy to it.

[GinaKina]

I don't do it personally, but I have heard a lot of people say that low carb works for them. I have also probably heard even more people say that it doesn't work for them.

 

Have you tried eating fruit instead of processed sugary snacks when you feel the need for something sweet? I can understand where you are coming from, I like sweets myself, but I try to have my sweet stuff have some sort of nutritional value. For example, I just made some raw brownie bites (I don't try to eat raw, they just sounded too good to be true so I had to try) and they are SO good, and a great sweet treat...and they're healthier than most sweets because it's just dates, walnuts, and unsweetened cocoa powder. I also make muffins with soy flour, I like stuff like that for breakfast. So...clearly my diet isn't low carb at all if I am having muffins for breakfast, but it also doesn't include a lot of processed sugar. Oh, I guess I should add that I make my muffins with Splenda, I know a lot of people are anti-artificial sweeteners.

 

I can only imagine that wanting to eat a veg*n diet, eating predominantly meat and dairy must be....tough. I can't imagine that this is he ideal diet for you.

[dunaway1]

I absolutly love eating fruit,beans, and some carbs like rice and sweet potatoes, but I couldn't seem to lose any weight . However in all fairness I haven't really been working out either! But for some reason I crave sugar really bad and if I eat nuts I seem to gain weight. Its almost like I need to food combine or eat 100% raw if I wanna eat fats with daily carb intake. So confused ! BUt i really feel like vegan is soooo much healthier than any kind of meat or dairy whether its low fat or high fat! Anyone have any more suggestions

Thanks

[sydneyvegan]

I am doing my version of Low Carb right now, based on a Diet that Gaia and a few others have been following, and it works.

 

1. You eat low carb 3 or 4 days, then Eat good quality carbs for 1 or 2 days (Brown Rice, Oats, Quinoa etc).

2. On the Low Carb Days I am eating Vegetables and Tofu (The brand Like like is only 3% Carbs but 17% Protein, it's almost impossible to get no carb vegan foods of course) and raw nuts

3. I am not eating any simple sugars or processed carbs.

4. I am taking protein powder to help maintain muscle mass.

 

I am definitely losing bodyfat

I have not lost strength or muscle - Strength has slightly increased

I am a little tired, but it is nothing too bad, I just make sure I get plenty of sleep ( This could be due to other factors like work and partying a little too, ha ha)

 

One thing I will mention is at the end of a workout I am absolutely smashed. I Lift heavy and push it hard at the gym (Hard enough so I am out of breath when doing sets), when I am finished I have the shakes a little bit and feel drained (After about 20mins, I'm good again)

 

Other things to remember - White sugar has been said by some to be more addictive than nicotine (I think I agree)

it will take time to ween yourself off it.

[veggieprincess]

Yes, reducing your carbs works for weight loss.

 

I would say that my online diet program is low to moderate carb.

 

When I first went Vegan my first purchase was called the "Carb-Conscious Vegetarian" because I was afraid of what the excess carbs would do to my physique.

 

So yes... lower to moderate carb diets work for many people. Yes, it is possible as a Vegan. Feel free to check out one of my programs if you're serious about your commitment to being a healthy fit Vegan

[Gaia]

Just a note: check your tongue in the morning when you wake up. Is there a thin white film covering it? If yes, then you might have a yeast overgrowth. Yeast love to grow in a sugar environment, and there have been studies that the yeast overgrowth can secrete a biochemical hormone-like substance that can make your body crave sugar. You will have to get rid of the yeast overgrowth to curb the sugar cravings.

 

Also you can just substitute the fruits for the sugar to curb the cravings. And yeah, you are right, you do have to start exercising! Diet is part of losing weight, and the other part is exercising!!!!! Otherwise you are going to just be the same old same old. And you can be fine with that. You know what you have to do to change, so do it! Just start. . . . .

[RawVgn]

Carbs do not cause weight gain; I eat 85% of my calories from fruit (almost all carbs)and am 6-1 169 pounds. I do less than 30 minutes of aerobic exercise a week. Unless your doing major mileage, exercise will not significantly affect your weight. Do the math; it doesn't work. Eat food loaded with water, sugar, and fiber- that means fruit! The water and fiber fill you up before you can eat too many calories, and only sugar can be oxidized by your cells for energy to beat your lethargy. Most vegan diets are loaded with fat; how else can you eat tastless starches like potatoes and rice and bread unless you load them with fats like Earth Balance or grill them in oil and so on. The average vegan eats as much fat as the avg American- it's just polyunsaturated but still loaded with calories and a very poor fuel source that pushes quality fuel (sugar/carbs) out of your diet. Low energy is the most common complaint I hear from vegans- caused by eating complex carbs, fats, and protein-all inferior energy sources.

 

If you want super high energy and to never worry about your weight again, eat raw fruit and green leafy veggies and eat no more than an ounce of nuts or seeds a day. An ideal caloronutrient ratio is 80% carbs (almost ALL fruit sugar), 10% fat, and 10% protein. The weight will peel off you, and you will never break a sweet! And you won't know what to do with all the energy you have. It is so simple, you will be amazed. And forget the "we're all so different" comments: we're all the same species and we are far more similiar than different; short of being very ill, the diet I am suggesting works for everyone who sticks to it.

 

Go to foodnsport.com and you will see how simple it is. And low carb diets are extremely dangerous; read what leading nutritional groups have to say about Atkins and so forth. If you are eating low carb, then you must be eating high fat or high protein to get calories- either way is unhealthy and potentially deadly.

[veggieprincess]

Yes, but you are on a Raw Diet. I don't have any doubt whatsoever that people can get skinny and lose fat on an all Raw diet, but this person is teetering on Veganism or non-Veganism because carbs have made he/she fat in the past.

 

Many people aren't willing or disciplined enough to go raw, so I'm letting he/she know that they can do both.... eat a MODERATE carb diet and exercise while being a Vegan, and lose the excess bodyfat they desire. Because if its between losing this person as a Vegan because he/she doesen't want to get fat, or showing them a way they can be Vegan and still lose the fat... I think its better to see the big picture and have them be Vegan... and as I said... many people don't want to do a Raw diet, or at least they often become Vegan and then experiment with a raw lifestyle.

[RawVgn]

Thank you for clarifying-"moderate carb" diet. I certainly agree your approach is superior to the SAD or any non-vegan diet. I also think it's important for him to realize why his approach has failed in the past. I personnaly find the approach I use far easier than yours; I exercise less than 2 hours a week and can readily loose weight without any aerobic exercise.

 

The lethargy issue is also chronic among vegans, and until he realizes that fruit is the staple of primate diets he will continue to have problems. And in order to avoid candida or thrush while consuming so much quality sugar, he will have to keep his fat consumption down around 10-15% which will also control his weight. Short of eating protein powders (which eventually acidify the body and are low or void of fiber, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and so on), high protein diets do not exist-they're really high fat diets. It is not possible to be healthy, long term, on a diet that is less than 60% carbs-ideally it should be at least 80% carbs and almost all of them simple sugars to provide energy and other nutrients.

 

The problem with his diet is obvious, and the solution is equally simple. Like anyone who aspires to excellence, he will have to hone his mental game.

 

Also, many people seem to think being raw is some great act of self denial. When I quit the SAD and became vegan, I did it in 1 day; my health and joy improved as a vegan, so it was a labor of love. When I went raw from regular vegan, my health and fitness skyrocketed. Being raw is not some Herculian effort of self-discipline, it is a labor of love-I love raw food, juicy homegrown heirloom tomatoes, ripe succulent bananas that almost melt in my mouth, mountains of cool watermelon after a hard workout in the middle of the summer heat, growing my own fruit, working outside in the sun watching goldfinches and hawks, walking down the street a half century old tall and strong and fit, never being sick or going to the doctor, enjoying sex like an 18 year old, aging very gracefully, and on and on. Connection with life force is what carries people to the mountain top, discipline is a distant second if that.

Edited October 9, 2008 by RawVgn

[Gaia]

Lethargic doesn't have to mean deficiency in nutrients (but in the same thought, it could!). There is also the possibility of detoxing. Letting lose the toxins that are stuck in the adipose tissue (fat cells) as the weight/bodyfat comes off can make you feel ill. Headaches and joint pains are the usual symptoms of detoxing, but all over lethargic feeling can also be a symptom. It should go away after a couple of weeks to a month, for some it could be longer (depends on the toxins and the release from the fat tissue).

 

So Dunaway1, what are your thoughts on all the suggestions? Still having the sugar cravings? What have you decided to do?

[dunaway1]

I agree and feel that vegan and even raw vegan is healthier than high pro/high fat. I just never seem to be able to lose weight eating rice,potatoes , beans or bread as avegan unleass I ran about 2 miles a day it seemed like. So I thought I needed to leave the carbs alone. I did experiment with raw and felt great, however I was always hungry, and I got confused because I was finding so much lititure about how eating high fat low carb was better for you than eating any carbs! Sounds crazy.. Thanks for everyones advice. I am going to try and eat way more fruit and really limit the carbs! Is oatmeal ok in moderation, how about silk soy milk/or soy?

[dunaway1]

I am female -sorry I wasn't more clear on the boards, anyway. So is the basis of good health and energy to keep fat intake low? I thought fat was needed more than other nutrients for good health. Am i incorrect on that? I just want to be healthy and to be able to lose my 30lbs , but keep it off and be healthy while doing that. Meat and dairy really me, and I was just trying to deal with it because I thought carbs were my problem. it seems like everything is bad for you now I am going to start back working out,,I love cardio. I just work an hour away from home and I carpool so working out kinda got put on the backburn Again any more suggestions are welcome as well as opinions. You guys are so supportive here-THANKS!

[veggieprincess]

Healthy fats are essential to a good diet, but in limited amounts. Nuts, seeds, flax seed oil, avocado but in small portions.

 

And for the record, I know you got advice to "just eat fruit" when you have sugar cravings, but I do limit my fruit intake to no more than a couple pieces a day. As you can see we are a diverse board where everyone does things a bit differently depending if they are raw, not raw, bodybuilding, etc. etc.

[dunaway1]

Thanks for your help... I know everyone is different in their approach I just have to find the right vegan approach for me!

[RawVgn]

Fruit is carbohydrate-it's SIMPLE carb which is a type of sugar, which is the ONLY thing our bodies can burn for energy. Anything you eat-protein, fat, complex carbs like rice and potatoes and carrots- must be digested into simple carbs (sugar) before it can be burned in the body cells to release energy. Complex carbs-grains, roots, and legumes(starches)- have a LOW NET Energy content: simply digesting them, reducing them to simple carbs before burning, consumes a significant amount of energy and makes your body do a lot of needless work. Starches also contain lots of indigestable cellulose that the body can not digest, acidic elements like sulphur bound into the protein molecules, and other non-digestable junk that the body must then use even more energy eliminating. Starches are also essentially tasteless and must be combined with additional toxins like salt and herbs and fractional oils like Earth Balance just to make them palatable. They are also relatively low in vitamins, minerals, phytochemicals, and anti-oxidants, and they contain sharp, insoluble fiber that abrades the intestines causing mucus buildup to clog the absorptive villi undermining nutrient uptake. If you eat a lot of starches, it is unlikely you will ever sustain high fitness and health .

 

Without going into a lot of details, fat is obviously not a good source of energy. Protein has many of the same shortcomings as starch. This reasoning eliminates ever class of food except simple carbs and non-starchy vegetables as high quality food; in other words, fruit and leafy green veggies should be your only staple foods. Anything else you eat in substantial amounts will , sooner or later, undermine your vitality and fitness.

 

Like you, as a vegan, I could never achieve my ideal weight and had other nagging health problems. As a frugivore, I maintain ideal bodyweight and incredibly high energy and fitness literally without breaking a sweat. I'm sure you've heard the old adage, "don't work hard, work smart." If you align your diet with HUMAN NATURE, health and fitness, for most people, are almost effortless.

 

Also keep in mind, when you eat whole food-like raw food that has not been dehydrated by cooking, you need to eat what APPEARS to be a lot more. On average, fruit is about 70% water, so when your eating lots of fruit, what your really doing is drinking lots of water and eating some simple carbs. In order to avoid being hungry, you need to eat 2 to 3 times the volume of cooked food. So when you have a fruit breakfast, you don't eat A banana, you eat 6 or 8 bananas. You don't eat a slice of melon, you eat half a watermelon or cantalope at one sitting.

[Gaia]

Oatmeal is very very good! Put some fruit (I like strawberries and applesauce) to sweeten it up a little. I also add EFA's to my oatmeal in the morning (Essential Fatty Acids - oils/lipids that the body needs - the omega 3s and 6s). I also do a little protein powder in there too.

 

I too can not lose weight eating bread, beans, and potatoes. I do lose some weight with rice and oatmeal though, and they keep me balanced in maintaining body weight. I did lose alot of bodyfat on the high protein, low carb, and moderate fat, but felt horrible (called the ketogenic diet- though it is tough to be really low in carbs because all vegan sources of protein has some carb associated with it). You are only suppose to diet like that for just a couple of weeks anyways, kind of like fasting. Keep on trying to see what works for you in your lifestyle, environment, and genetics. I still have alot to learn too!

[joelk]

I honestly have got my best fat loss results using 65% fat, 25% protein, 10% carbohydrate split, with a re feed meal every 6 days.

My diet was based around tempeh for protein, nuts, particularly almonds and macadamias and a variety of cold pressed oils and plenty of green vegetables. I managed to get in my best shape ever for my recent bodybuilding show and will use the same approach next time I compete.

Off season, I add in more complex carbohydrates at the expense of some of the fat calories.

[RawVgn]

Joel

 

That's amazing! Can you share your biostats with us, so we can judge your true health? Cholesterol, height, weight, age, blood pressure, resting pulse, LDL, & HDL should give us a pretty good picture?

 

I remember the story of Jim Fixx, the father of the modern running movement, who was found dead on the side of the road at 52 from a heart attack; he looked great on the outside, but his veins were all clogged up inside from eating fat and cholesterol. And who can forget Mike Mentzer? Looked great but...ya can't judge a book by its cover!

[Im Your Man]

I don't think JoelK's health can be compared to people eating 12 eggs per day, steak, milk, etc, just because for a few weeks pre-contest he eats 65% fat. Eventhough it may not be the healthiest thing to do on earth, it's still fats from the vegetal kingdom, which is cholesterol free and pretty low in saturated fats. It's liquid at body temperature so it won't stuck into his veins.

[joelk]

That's amazing! Can you share your biostats with us, so we can judge your true health? Cholesterol, height, weight, age, blood pressure, resting pulse, LDL, & HDL should give us a pretty good picture?

 

 

I have some of my stats, haven't had a blood test in a while.

Height 174cm

Weight 81kg

Age 26

Blood pressure 120/80

Resting pulse 56bpm

I would say I'm pretty healthy, my diet is only that high in fat for the last 8 weeks of my contest prep, then it goes back to about 40% of total calories (still pretty high I know).

But like I'm your man said, I only eat plant based fat sources and the number of cardio protective foods I eat, particularly off season, is relatively high.

Also, I think there are a lot of factors that influenced Mike Mentzers tragic early death, a hereditary heart problem, chain smoking, heavy amphetamine use and also his bleak outlook on life after he was screwed in the '80 Olympia would have accelerated his physical deterioration.

Honestly, I think people are still scared of fats more than what they should be.

[Guest]

I doubt a low-fat diet would work well for a bodybuilder/strenght athlete, because low-fat also means low-testosterone, etc. Deliberate restriction of any micro/macro nutrient isn't going to bring any magical results in phisyque transformation, strenght increase or whatever. Different things work for different people and even those who don't do very well on moderate to higher carb diets would probably be fine if their physical activity level was higher! Personally, I find that limitng carb intake works better for me as on most days I don't really have much time for exercise other than my 3x/week lifting. But I sure as hell will up my carb intake when it's summer again.