618 million reasons not to vote for Obama

[veginator]

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.php

 

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638

 

Talk about prostituting yourself to big corporations!

Edited October 22, 2008 by veginator

[zinzen]

good luck living in a country run by satan

[beforewisdom]

The real reasons most people do not want to vote for Senator Obama:

 

1. He is African American

2. Blind partisan loyalty to the GOP

3. Being an extreme sore loser about Senator Clinton not winning the democratic nomination.

Edited October 10, 2008 by beforewisdom

[zinzen]

I really hope you are stating the reasons why most wont vote for him, and not saying you wont vote for a dude cause he is black, I dont think I will be very happy if thats what you are saying

[nails]

Yea stay the course.Keep the white house republican.They've done a great job the last 8 yrs.if your not with us your against us blah blah blah.

[VeganEssentials]

There's ONE last big thing about Obama that bothers me right now...

 

Basically, he wants to do a nice tax increase on small businesses that make more than what a 2-person mom & pop operation pull in over the course of a year's time. Now, anyone that runs a small business already knows that we owners get bent over and screwed by heavy taxes already, but with MORE increases, I may not be able to afford to offer my employees health care benefits much longer. Basically, the crappy taxation on small business already makes it so that operations the size of our business can rarely afford to offer ANY benefits, but we've stood against the grain and sucked up the massive tax rates and still offered to help everyone out with 50% covereage paid. But, we struggle to keep it up because it's become more expensive every year. Much more, though, and we have to fold those benefits, so therein lies the conundrum of "making healthcare more affordable" because I guarantee, our employees will end up paying more in the end if they lose our benefits but get some sort of break via something implemented under the new regime.

 

Somehow, micro-business gets breaks, mega-business gets craploads of breaks, but small business that falls in between gets screwed. All this talk of helping "middle America" and yet there's plenty coming that will screw the little guy over anyway. When I worked for a marketing agency, I heard the tales about mega-corporations who had coffers with $100 million or more that they HAD to spend on areas like PR/advertising, simply because if they didn't, they wouldn't get the funds allocated the following year (they'd still be rife with cash, but it would just go to a different department). Money had to be "disposed of" because otherwise they'd get taxed more, so of course, they'd throw cash at anything and everything just because it was easy and they'd avoid tax penalties. Big business often has to throw away money because they've got more than they know what to do with because they get more tax breaks than you can shake a stick at, and that's not going to change for crap under either party. Conversely, our business turns a profit of less than $20k for the FIRST TIME EVER of not coming in at a loss for the year, and I have to give $7k of it back to Uncle Sam despite sitting on a mountain of bills because technically, the profit shows on paper even if there's no extra money in our bank account. But, we're still in plenty of debt because we stock so many items that we need to keep a lot on the shelves at all times. Fun, ain't it?

 

Hooray for our viable candidate options

[beforewisdom]

As of the last debate the Iraq war cost 700 billion. Bailing out Wall Street cost another 700 billion. Like it or not, no matter what election promises are made, many people, not just small business owners will be paying more taxes.

[VeganEssentials]

As of the last debate the Iraq war cost 700 billion. Bailing out Wall Street cost another 700 billion. Like it or not, no matter what election promises are made, many people, not just small business owners will be paying more taxes.

 

Oh, I'm definitely aware of that. I just do find it tragicomic how both candidates talk so greatly about helping the beloved "middle America" while simultaneously finding new ways to screw us all over. I don't trust either candidate as far as I could throw them, and I have nothing but a feeling of impending doom regardless of who wins. I wish I could be optimistic, but the sad reality dictates that I can't convince myself that either party will make things better any time soon.

[tuc]

I strongly oppose this forum becoming a dirt digging political tool against Barack and I hope the moderators will put this thread together with the other one started by veginator.

 

You REALLY have to pick between 2 candidates. If you tell every piece of shit you can find about Barack, do the same thing to McCain.

 

Geez, your country really needs a legislation like in Finland. We have 2 stage presidential election. If no candidate gets more than 50 % of votes in the first round, we'll have a round 2 between the two candidates who got most votes in round 1. That way we can freely vote for our REAL favourite in the first round and after that choose between the lesser evil.

[RawVgn]

America is already close to an unprecedented financial collapse. I'm amazed anyone would even consider voting republican after what has happened over the last several months-let alone the last 8 years. Deregulation, the republican mantra for the last 30 years, has proven itself to be a total failure-it's just a license to steal. If we don't impose law and order on our economy and its participants soon, it'll end up looking like Bahgdad!

[RawVgn]

Tuc

 

You gotta understand how American politics works-its designed to be undemocratic. The last thing in the world the hereditary rich want is a country run by the people; then they'd have to work for a living like the rest of us. Why work when there's corporate welfare? Just have your friend in the white house transfer a couple trillion dollars of the peoples money to you with regular ongoing wars and bailouts and whatever other scams suits your fancy.

 

Our only alternative is to start a revolution, and that would be a bloody mess. Civil war in a country with thousands of nuclear weapons, oh boy. So we live with the scoundrels and hope for the best.

[veginator]

Everything I said was problematic about Obama in the "17 Reasons..." thread also applies to McCain. I didn't say so because I thought it was pretty obvious, but maybe it wasn't.

 

I agree that we'd be better off with a different electoral system (proportional representation, runoffs, anything but what we've got), but that by itself won't fix very much, as evidenced by similar although perhaps less extreme injustices in countries that do have such systems.

 

Why do you keep calling him "Barack"? Do you know him personally?

 

I strongly oppose this forum becoming a dirt digging political tool against Barack and I hope the moderators will put this thread together with the other one started by veginator.

 

You REALLY have to pick between 2 candidates. If you tell every piece of shit you can find about Barack, do the same thing to McCain.

 

Geez, your country really needs a legislation like in Finland. We have 2 stage presidential election. If no candidate gets more than 50 % of votes in the first round, we'll have a round 2 between the two candidates who got most votes in round 1. That way we can freely vote for our REAL favourite in the first round and after that choose between the lesser evil.

[veginator]

I agree that it's amazing that anyone would still support Republicans given all the awful things they've done and the economic crisis they've played a major role in bringing about. But why are you calling deregulation "the Republican mantra for the last 30 years"? Most Democrats have supported it, too. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, one of the major acts of deregulation that paved the way for the current mess, was signed into law in 1999 by Bill Clinton.

 

America is already close to an unprecedented financial collapse. I'm amazed anyone would even consider voting republican after what has happened over the last several months-let alone the last 8 years. Deregulation, the republican mantra for the last 30 years, has proven itself to be a total failure-it's just a license to steal. If we don't impose law and order on our economy and its participants soon, it'll end up looking like Bahgdad!

[veginator]

To me, "Satan" is not any particular individual, but the whole political/economic system of the U.S. and most of the rest of the world where a few really rich people have insane amounts of power, and where (especially in the U.S.) almost every aspect of the economy is dominated by the profit motive; i.e., capitalism. I approach electoral as well as nonelectoral politics from the standpoint of: How can we undermine this system and take a step toward a more just, democratic, and compassionate system? It's not that I don't think having Obama as President would be somewhat preferable to having McCain as President. It's just that I don't see voting or campaigning for Obama as serving that long-term goal; in fact, I see it as undermining it, because he's part of this corrupt system and those of us who oppose it need to oppose it consistently.

 

good luck living in a country run by satan

[Vegan Joe]

I really hope you are stating the reasons why most wont vote for him, and not saying you wont vote for a dude cause he is black, I dont think I will be very happy if thats what you are saying

Actually he is only half black. lol

So he doen't really fit that discription of being African American. OK half AA.

[offense74]

Sweden have some of the highest taxes in the "developed" world. I'm doing alright. So are most Swedes.

Lowering taxes means more IOU's to Saudi arabia and China.

 

I believe that more cooperation between countries and regions is needed in the future. McCain/Palin doesn't have any credibility in the rest of the world and much like Bush most see them as jokes. But then again, the US might be the greatest country on earth so it might be that you don't need credibility and cooperation from the rest of the world.

[Vegan Joe]

Sweden have some of the highest taxes in the "developed" world. I'm doing alright. So are most Swedes.

Lowering taxes means more IOU's to Saudi arabia and China.

 

I believe that more cooperation between countries and regions is needed in the future. McCain/Palin doesn't have any credibility in the rest of the world and much like Bush most see them as jokes. But then again, the US might be the greatest country on earth so it might be that you don't need credibility and cooperation from the rest of the world.

Now this is the funny part:

And Barack credibility come from?

[offense74]

Sweden have some of the highest taxes in the "developed" world. I'm doing alright. So are most Swedes.

Lowering taxes means more IOU's to Saudi arabia and China.

 

I believe that more cooperation between countries and regions is needed in the future. McCain/Palin doesn't have any credibility in the rest of the world and much like Bush most see them as jokes. But then again, the US might be the greatest country on earth so it might be that you don't need credibility and cooperation from the rest of the world.

Now this is the funny part:

And Barack credibility come from?

The gap in politics between the democrats and the politics of the rest of the world is smaller than that of republicans (usually).

Christian morality, liberal gun-laws, less public health care, less security for workers, death penalty, gay rights, etc. If I need to talk politics (as a president needs to do with the rest of the world) with a gunslinging, christian fundamentalist redneck I wouldn't know were to start? Bush have separated the US from the rest of the world, Clinton didn't. McCain/Palin will widen it further.

I believe (due to peak oil and climate change) that we are looking at a future much unlike what we have today. I think cooperation is key in this process and Palin won't bring it.

[robert]

Good points Offense.

[Vegan Joe]

The gap in politics between the democrats and the politics of the rest of the world is smaller than that of republicans (usually).

Christian morality, liberal gun-laws, less public health care, less security for workers, death penalty, gay rights, etc. If I need to talk politics (as a president needs to do with the rest of the world) with a gunslinging, christian fundamentalist redneck I wouldn't know were to start? Bush have separated the US from the rest of the world, Clinton didn't. McCain/Palin will widen it further.

I believe (due to peak oil and climate change) that we are looking at a future much unlike what we have today. I think cooperation is key in this process and Palin won't bring it.

When you're not a member of what many believe to be the greatest country in the world today. It can hurt your ego. Hense backbiting. Don't put words into my mouth, or get me wrong. I am not saying there is nothing wrong with America.

 

Oh, I see, credibility come merely with the party you affiliate yourself with. lol

Yeah, and the world just hated Ronald Reagan ®, Europe especially so.

Memories are short!

 

 

McCain/Palin will widen it further.

Nostradamus?

Edited October 12, 2008 by Vegan Joe

[Bill]

I really don't see what those numbers indicate. His biggest donor is Goldman Sachs, clocking in at roughly 1/500th of total donations. Isn't that fairly small? Would he be about as beholden to them as Nader would be to your group of collective Nader fans that who gave him $6,000 or so? Will Obama be a slave to the whims of the academics at UC system (#2) and Harvard(#3)? Hmmmm....

[Bill]

Also, notice that Obama has the best disclosure rates of any of the candidates, including Nader and McKinney, according to that link provided by veginator.

[Vegan Joe]

Sweden have some of the highest taxes in the "developed" world. I'm doing alright. So are most Swedes.

Lowering taxes means more IOU's to Saudi arabia and China.

 

http://discardedlies.com/entry/?14684_swedens_enormous_hidden_unemployment_rate

 

Sweden's enormous, hidden unemployment rate

How reliable is the official Swedish statistic that 5.4% of Swedes are unemployed? Every single day, one in every 20 employed Swedes is "out sick". That, as bizarre as it sounds, is just the tip of the iceberg: one of Sweden's leading leftist economists has broken through the blue line to tell the truth. True Swedish unemployment is in the range of an obscene 20-25%. So much for the Socialist paradise. Full employment is a pipe dream when you give people incentives not to work, and disincentives to work.

Estimating the true unemployment rate

Below is a calculation of true unemployment in Sweden. All figures are from the Swedish Statistical Agency (SCB) Labor survey, first quarter 2005, except the number of individuals only on welfare, which have been taken from Tax researcher Dane Nordlings homepage. The number on Sick Leave have been adjusted for the number of working hours.

 

Population 16-64 - -- - - 5.755.000

 

Not in labor force - - - - - - 1.365.000

Early retired - - - - - - - - - (494.000)

Seek work - - - - - - - - - - - (150.000)

Get Welfare - - - - - - - - - - (84.000)

 

Labor Force - - - - - - - - - 4.391.000

Unemployed (5.6 %) - - - - - (245.000)

unemply programs - - - - - (130.000)

Employed in Real job - - - - 4.016.000

Absent from work - - - - - - (554.000)

Of which on Sick leave- - - (216.000)

 

Actually work - - - - - - - 3.469.000

Some 4.0 million (70 percent of adult population) are in productive activity rate, while 1.2 million (20 percent of adult population) are living of welfare and Health or Unemployment insurance alone. The remaining 10 percent of adult population are supported by the state by other means (such as parents leave and absence from work due to care of sick children).

 

Range of estimate of true unemployment: 8.5%-26%

So how high is Swedish unemployment? The question hinges on who we include, and especially in Sweden’s case on how much of early retirement and sick leave is hidden unemployment. Even the Swedish government acknowledges that the 130.000 in “Labor market political programs” are simply unemployed, so we start from a low estimate of 8.5 percent unemployment.

 

For international comparisons we probably should not include the students and other’s who want to work but cannot find a job, since this category exists in all countries. This figure is however interesting for policy matter in Sweden. Also including welfare recipients we get 13.2 percent unemployment. A difficult question is what to do with all the absentees. If we include all of them we end up with 26 percent unemployment. Note that we are not including absentees for any other reasons than Sick Leave and are also excluding the underemployed.

 

Now this last figure is clearly too high. Many people who report sick are of course really too sick to work. This latter figure does however show us the range of the unemployment figure, and is probably closer to the actual number than 8.5 percent unemployment. An important question is how many who could go back to work if they did not have the option to stay home and live of government welfare. An international comparison might be interesting.

 

Sweden had some 26 dayslost per worker in 2002. In Canada, also a large welfare state, the corresponding figures (2004) were 7.5 daysper full time worker lost every year due to sick leave. Britain had a similar figure, 7.2 dayslost per worker and year in 2003.

 

Our best estimate of true unemployment figures in Sweden

A plausible estimate of how much of early retirement that is due to inability to work can be attained by using the rates of early retirement in Sweden in 1960. This is an exaggerated figure, since people are much healthier today and have less demanding jobs. Also, Sweden had a welfare state even back then. The sick leave that is due to inability to work can be estimated by using a figure slightly above that of Canada. Also this is an exaggerated figure, as Canada is also a welfare state.

 

By using these estimates and not counting the forced student, the underemployed or all other absentees, the Swedish unemployment rate would be 19.8 percent. This is fully 962.000 out of work of a workforce of 4.848.000.

[offense74]

The gap in politics between the democrats and the politics of the rest of the world is smaller than that of republicans (usually).

Christian morality, liberal gun-laws, less public health care, less security for workers, death penalty, gay rights, etc. If I need to talk politics (as a president needs to do with the rest of the world) with a gunslinging, christian fundamentalist redneck I wouldn't know were to start? Bush have separated the US from the rest of the world, Clinton didn't. McCain/Palin will widen it further.

I believe (due to peak oil and climate change) that we are looking at a future much unlike what we have today. I think cooperation is key in this process and Palin won't bring it.

When you're not a member of what many believe to be the greatest country in the world today. It can hurt your ego. Hense backbiting. Don't put words into my mouth, or get me wrong. I am not saying there is nothing wrong with America.

 

Oh, I see, credibility come merely with the party you affiliate yourself with. lol

Yeah, and the world just hated Ronald Reagan ®, Europe especially so.

Memories are short!

 

 

McCain/Palin will widen it further.

Nostradamus?

As stated, I'm not an American and I don't want to be one. I'm not jealous of you. It's one of the common mistakes some Americans do, you believe that everyone wants to live there.

You're right, most of the world didn't like Reagan. Most liked Carter, maybe you're mixing them up?

 

No, offense, ey? I'm just stating what I hear over here....

[Vegan Joe]

Like I said short term memory, how soon Europe forgot about the threat of the USSR. Or maybe it's just ungreatfulness, instead of memory loss. Still think it's an ego thing.