Why Haven't I Seen The Results?

[pudha]

Ah man I'm so glad I discovered this site!!

 

Its hard being a vegetarian bodybuilder as you're limited on choice.

 

I've been training for about 5 months now and although I've gained alittle size and strength, but its nothing major!

 

What am I doing wrong??

 

I want to put on muscle size as well as get rid of my fat.

 

My basic daily meals and workout is below.

 

I'm 6'2", 89Kg and have alot of fat. I've included a picture below.

 

I try consume about 5 Meals-A-Day, each meal consisting of the following:

518 Calories

39g Protein

77g Carbs

11g Fat

 

Thats 2,590 calories per day.

 

My eating plan is roughly:

 

Breakfast (PRE WORKOUT MEAL)

3 Weetabix with a banana

OR

All Bran with a banana and 40g Whey

 

TRAINING (See Below)

 

POST WORKOUT

40g Whey Protein straight after workout

 

Lunch

Jacket Potato with a can of beans and cottage cheese

OR

Naan with Protein Mince

 

Mid Afternoon

3 Protein Sausages in 2 Brown Slices of Bread

 

Dinner

Chapattis or Rice with vegetable curry or lentils

 

Before bed

40g Whey Protein

 

This is a guide but I pretty much follows this.

 

My training workout is:

 

Monday - Back (Barbell Row, Cable Row, Lat Pulldown, Straight-Arm Pulldown)

 

Tuesday - Chest (Incline Barbell-Press, Flat Dumbbell Press, Incline Flyes, Flat Flyes)

 

Wednesday - Shoulders (Dumbbell Press, Barbell Upright Row, Barbell Front Raise, Lat Raise, Bent Over Raise)

 

Thursday - Arms (EZ Curl, Cable Curl, Hammer Curl, Close Grip Bench Press, Weighted Dip, Tricep Extension)

 

Friday - Legs (Squats, Wall Squats, Leg Extension, Romanian Deadlift, Leg Curl, Calf Raise)

 

Sat - Rest

Sun - Rest

 

I do HIIT Cardio about 3 times a week. But this I've started recently; about 2 weeks ago.

 

My Pics

 

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/2737/frontprofileqk3.jpg

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/frontprofileqk3.jpg/1/w385.png

 

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5567/sideprofilefi5.jpg

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/sideprofilefi5.jpg/1/w319.png

[Im Your Man]

You're doiing nothing wrong, if you're saying you're making small progress. Not everybody can make easily noticeable progress fast. Judging by your picture, your bodytype is endomorph so it ain't the ideal, but you still may be a good gainer, it's just that you gain fat too.

 

I would say, if you're 6"2, you can increase the calories up to 3000 calories or more, except if your main goal is to lose fat; in that case, you can eat less and you're still gonna gain some muscles while losing fat, but maybe not as much muscles as with more calories.

 

I say quit the whey proteins and all animal products, replace by soy protein isolate or other (hemp, pea, rice, Vega, etc), faux meat, etc.

 

You're not "limited on choice", omnivores don't have all those products I mentioned, it's either whey or... whey. Chicken breasts, tuna and eggs are bland.

[pudha]

replace by soy protein isolate or other (hemp, pea, rice, Vega, etc), faux meat

 

What are these?

 

Could you give me a link to these products please?

 

So you reckon I should up my cardio to 5 times a week to budge this stubborn fat?

 

How bout cycling mass, strength and definition? Should I lift heavy every day?

 

What foods are good for energy when working out?

[blabbate]

replace by soy protein isolate or other (hemp, pea, rice, Vega, etc), faux meat

What are these?

Could you give me a link to these products please?

These are various protein isolates. They have different amino acid profiles and digestibility. There's an amino acid profile sticky thread around here somewhere that goes into depth, but the pea and hemp proteins are generally considered best. Pea is quite cheap, too. You can find them at trueprotein.com, or possibly at local natural foods stores.

 

Also, it's worth noting that this is a vegan newsgroup, not vegetarian, so a lot of the advice you get will urge you away from animal products. No whey, no cheese, no eggs.

 

 

So you reckon I should up my cardio to 5 times a week to budge this stubborn fat?

 

How bout cycling mass, strength and definition? Should I lift heavy every day?

If you're just starting out, you shouldn't lift heavy every day. Your muscles and nervous system aren't ready for it. How much and what type of cardio and lifting you do depends on your primary goal. If you want to lose fat more quickly in the short term, more aerobic cardio and less lifting might help. If you want to gain mass, more reps and more food, not much cardio. If you want strength, fewer reps, close to failure, and medium cardio.

 

Cycling of some sort is often a good idea. Activities that are recommended for one goal might be counterproductive for another, so focusing on a single target can help. In the past year I've done a cutting period with tons of aerobic and minimal weights, now a bulking period with minimal aerobic and lots of weights with varying reps, and next is strength and neuromuscular training with HIIT and high-weight/low-rep lifiting.

 

But it's all about what works for you. If what you're doing now isn't working out, find what's not working and change it, but realize that you might have to sacrifice in other areas. More muscle might mean slower fat loss.

 

What foods are good for energy when working out?

[Gaia]

Not to advocate caffeine, but I would do a cup of green tea in the morning and then another before you do your cardio. It will increase your metabolism and make workouts more intense (and good for your immune system).

 

I would also have a protein (the All bran with the banana and protein powder) in the morning before you head out to workout. I would also do something for a post workout in the way of carbs (simple) for a flash flush of glucose to your muscles in addition to the protein drink (fruit juice may be OK).

 

You may want to get rid of the Naan, Chapattis, and Brown bread, and replace it will just Brown Rice (Long grain) for faster weight loss. Bread contains refined grain that is easily absorbed and calorie rich for the body's metabolism. Brown rice takes longer (to not only eat - and chew thoroughly to mix the saliva's digestion enzymes with your food) and has alot more fiber to slow down digestion. It also has alot more nutrients in the bran/hull to keep your nutrients optimal (than Naan, Chapattis - both so full of oil! and Brown bread (this usually contain sugar in it to make it the yeast grow in it)).

 

And I always want to advocate a dark green leafy vegetable in there for the non heme iron it has to keep your blood pumped with strong red blood cells to deliver enough oxygen to your muscle tissues. Also all the other phytonutrients it has to help in the fast repair of muscle fibers that you have torn during the intense workouts you are doing. I personally like to take my veggie sausages with a salad of mixed baby greens (romaine, kale, spinach, frisbee, raddichio, and swiss chard) with a good olive oil vinegarette dressing.

[Wobbly Lifter]

My training workout is:

 

Monday - Back (Barbell Row, Cable Row, Lat Pulldown, Straight-Arm Pulldown)

 

Tuesday - Chest (Incline Barbell-Press, Flat Dumbbell Press, Incline Flyes, Flat Flyes)

 

Wednesday - Shoulders (Dumbbell Press, Barbell Upright Row, Barbell Front Raise, Lat Raise, Bent Over Raise)

 

Thursday - Arms (EZ Curl, Cable Curl, Hammer Curl, Close Grip Bench Press, Weighted Dip, Tricep Extension)

 

Friday - Legs (Squats, Wall Squats, Leg Extension, Romanian Deadlift, Leg Curl, Calf Raise)

 

Sat - Rest

Sun - Rest

 

I do HIIT Cardio about 3 times a week. But this I've started recently; about 2 weeks ago.

 

I'd say it's your selection of exercises that is slowing your progress. Most of them use such a small percentage of the total weight you could move that they neither burn much fat, or stimulate much muscle.

 

Cut down the number of workouts and up the intensity.

 

Try this:

 

Day 1

Deadlift 3x5

Bench Press 3x10

Barbell Row 3x10

Core Work

 

Day 2

Military Press or Push Press 3x10

Squats 3x10

Pull-ups(if you can do them, lat pull down otherwise) 3 sets as many as you can

Core Work

 

Alternate days and do 2-3 workouts a week. Remember to keep adding weight to the bar - if you made all the reps last week, add 5 pounds to the bar.

[Im Your Man]

This program by Wobbly Lifter may be good to build more mass, but training only 2 days per week will burn less fat than training 5 days a week (of course it depends how long each session lasts). No need to do cardio neither to burn fat, but just working out with sufficient intensity. It all depends on how much effort you put when you lift. If your heart rate rises a lot, resting between each set is good to keep a moderate heart rate, it's enough to burn fat. If you lift with less effort, doing super-sets, like in the HIT system, is great and your heart will beat fast during all the workout session. No need to do cardio also if for instance you ride a bike for transport, or walk (fast) a lot, or if you do manual labor.

[Gaia]

This program by Wobbly Lifter may be good to build more mass, but training only 2 days per week will burn less fat than training 5 days a week (of course it depends how long each session lasts).

Read the post alittle bit more. It says to do the Day1 and Day2 TWICE a week, which will give you 2 days on/1 day off routine which is perfectly good for a beginner/intermediate BBer.

Alternate days and do 2-3 workouts a week.

 

You are right to up the intensity when lifting. Lift heavy! Be sore the next day! Don't work the body part till it has repaired all the way and is not sore. Push yourself to the edge. Feed yourself fuel to repair your muscles ONLY (no tastebuds allowed!).

[Im Your Man]

Feed yourself fuel to repair your muscles ONLY (no tastebuds allowed!).

Eat some food for energy too

[pudha]

Day 1

Deadlift 3x5

Bench Press 3x10

Barbell Row 3x10

Core Work

 

Day 2

Military Press or Push Press 3x10

Squats 3x10

Pull-ups(if you can do them, lat pull down otherwise) 3 sets as many as you can

Core Work

 

Alternate days and do 2-3 workouts a week. Remember to keep adding weight to the bar - if you made all the reps last week, add 5 pounds to the bar.

 

So I should do 3 exercises per workout??

 

How will that help me as I do core exercises everyday anyway?

[Wobbly Lifter]

The number is just a suggestion, it's not the number of exercises that are important, it's the type. Compound movements with as much weight as possible and progression is the key. You don't need to have an arm day, or do flys, or 4 exercises for each muscle group. The program your on now is more suited for the finishing touches, not to build a foundation.

 

As for core you shouldn't do it everyday. Just like other muscles they need rest, save it for the workout.

 

I'm your man mentions this will burn less fat then what your on now, but I disagree. Most of the exercises in your current program burn little calories. One set of deadlifts moves more weight then your entire arm day!

[bodybag]

I agree with wobblylifter. 3 compound exercises no more than 4 a session is all you need. Do exercises that give you the most bang for your buck. Pulling exercises work your biceps and pushing exercises work your triceps.

 

I do ab/core work no more than twice a week. 2-3 low rep weighted ab/core exercises 10 to 15 minutes max, 2-3 minute rest b/t sets. There are two day a week routines that are effective.

 

Edit: If a person only did two weighted exercises the Clean and Press and Kettlebell Swings 3 days a week along with HIIT or Tabata they would practically work every muscle group in the body and could get strong and lean with proper nutrition.

[Gaia]

I want to point out that the routine that I follow is that you have to focus on one thing. If you want to build mass, then you focus on that. You lift heavier and heavier in your weights. You can do compound body movements to make the mass build, but you do have to focus on increasing the weight the next time you lift. Keep a record and force yourself to add the extra 2 1/2 pound plate to the bar the next time. And take the +5 lbs dumbells the next time. And work on form and keep the core tight. You eat like you want to build. You bulk up (not get fat up . . though for some of us it is easy to have that happen. Have to eat good solid food. And lots of it). If you lose some bodyfat while doing all this, great side effect! But it is not your focus.

When you have the mass on that you like, then start to focus on cutting. Keep lifting the weights you have made it to, but cut back on the calories now. Add cardio to the routine to burn some of the fat off. But keep lifting your heavy weights. If the weights start to get too heavy and you can't handle it anymore then so be it. Hold on for as long as you can. But your focus is on loosing the bodyfat. Once the bodyfat has been lost, then you can either maintain or begin the process again.

 

At 5 months of training, I don't think you know your body well enough to do both. You have to know how much your body will take in nutrients to not pack on the adipose tissue, and how much to only support muscle mass. Remember also that the body needs to be cycled through routines or it will figure out what you are doing and keep you where you are at. You have to keep your metabolism up, which exercise does, but your body will still lower your metabolism to survive on less if it is steady. That is another type of routine you should be looking into: cycling. You can get to know your body that way pretty well.

[RAINRA]

I am going to be straight forward with you no B.S.

 

I think you got to many calories there and rice etc... not good to loose weight! If you had a super high metabolism it would be fine.

 

The question really is do you really want to accomplish something. See I can be in the gym 5 times a week but if I am not committed to push myself to where I need to be I will not get gains or loose extra bodyweight. It is you vs your mind. Get in the gym everyday. Even if is to do some sit-ups on your off day or pedal on the bike for a 15 minutes. Burn burn burn calories. Lift as well not all cardio. The best cardio would be one you could do with weights. That is less heavy weight and lifting from one exercise 2 another with very little rest in between. That is what I call maximum burn.

 

 

I think the trick is to focus on one first then the other. to Loose fat do cardio simple eat less calories than you burn. Takes time.

 

 

You see I think the issue is not your workout but your diet. It is to much processed food. Try not adding also the extra protein. If your body does not use they will be just extra unwanted calories.

You should start with lean muscle but with out getting cut and reducing extra fat you won't see abs or other muscles. Focus on the fat loss first. Make it your goal. Loose the milk not good for you at all and it actually harms you. It will only make your situation worse. Milk is full of sugar, saturated fat and bad protein and not for humans. That will keep your weight on. Cottage cheese or whey and the amount of carbs that you eat if they come from pastas rice and other starches. Get the starch from vegetables and fruits. Try to get off most the processed food. Eat more fruits and vegetables.Increase the fat from nuts and seeds. That will give you long term energy and it won't add pounds. No sugar sweets... NONE! if you want to change don't touch any of that stuff. AND NO SODA!

 

It is up to you to make that commitment

 

if you loose all hope try a raw food diet. I worked for this guy and he is now a speaker going around the country speaking to people how he lost the extra pounds when he had no hope.

 

http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/philip_mccluskey/index.html

Edited November 23, 2008 by RAINRA

[pudha]

Cut down the number of workouts and up the intensity.

 

Try this:

 

Day 1

Deadlift 3x5

Bench Press 3x10

Barbell Row 3x10

Core Work

 

Day 2

Military Press or Push Press 3x10

Squats 3x10

Pull-ups(if you can do them, lat pull down otherwise) 3 sets as many as you can

Core Work

 

Alternate days and do 2-3 workouts a week.

 

Wobbly, thanks for this info. Much appreciated.

 

So if you were to make me a final workout, what would it be? The one above?

 

One I can follow religiously. When should I change it up?

[Im Your Man]

I'm your man mentions this will burn less fat then what your on now, but I disagree. Most of the exercises in your current program burn little calories. One set of deadlifts moves more weight then your entire arm day!

No I only said that because I've misread your previous post, I thought you said to do only 2 -3 workout sessions per week But, concerning the correlation between fat burning and the amount of weight lifted at each rep, it doesn't work like that. You can burn fat without lifting any weight too, like by doing a session of spinning. Or, if you would lift a mountain for 10 seconds (suposing it was possible), it wouldn't burn more fat than lifting a 5 lbs dumbell for 20 minutes, just because the mountain is heavier. There's a maximum of calories that can be used in a certain amount of time, limited by the capacity of the heart.

[Wobbly Lifter]

But, concerning the correlation between fat burning and the amount of weight lifted at each rep, it doesn't work like that. You can burn fat without lifting any weight too, like by doing a session of spinning.

 

Umm... lifting more weight will burn more calories then lifting less - simple physics man. For example 1 deadlift with 100kg(a light deadlift) moving up a meter requires you to add 1000 Joules of potential energy. Moving 25kg(a light curl) half a meter only adds 125 Joules of potential energy. 1 deadlift uses more energy then 8 curls! and think which gets your heart raising more afterward- the deadlifts by far. just to let you know spinning and all exercises involve lifting/moving weight, just with cardio it's your body weight.

[Wobbly Lifter]

Cut down the number of workouts and up the intensity.

 

Try this:

 

Day 1

Deadlift 3x5

Bench Press 3x10

Barbell Row 3x10

Core Work

 

Day 2

Military Press or Push Press 3x10

Squats 3x10

Pull-ups(if you can do them, lat pull down otherwise) 3 sets as many as you can

Core Work

 

Alternate days and do 2-3 workouts a week.

 

Wobbly, thanks for this info. Much appreciated.

 

So if you were to make me a final workout, what would it be? The one above?

 

One I can follow religiously. When should I change it up?

 

This is more a beginners workout. Do it for 2-4 months, until you feel fully competent at each exercise. As for where to do after that it depends on your goals, but if bigger and stronger is your goal 5x5 is a great program.

There is no final workout, change it up every 3-6 months or when progress stops.

[Im Your Man]

But, concerning the correlation between fat burning and the amount of weight lifted at each rep, it doesn't work like that. You can burn fat without lifting any weight too, like by doing a session of spinning.

 

Umm... lifting more weight will burn more calories then lifting less - simple physics man. For example 1 deadlift with 100kg(a light deadlift) moving up a meter requires you to add 1000 Joules of potential energy. Moving 25kg(a light curl) half a meter only adds 125 Joules of potential energy. 1 deadlift uses more energy then 8 curls! and think which gets your heart raising more afterward- the deadlifts by far. just to let you know spinning and all exercises involve lifting/moving weight, just with cardio it's your body weight.

I know, but my statements are still valid, because I was comparing lifting heavy to lifting lighter but longer, while you compare lifting heavy to lifting lighter and less longer; who does only one bicep curl ? people will do the 8 reps you mention, so it equals 1 rep of deadlift, for the fat burning.

 

And of course I know that every exercices involves lifting, pushing, pulling, moving some weight. But what I meant is that it is not a necessity : you can burn fat in sauna, by increasing your heart rate. Or with isometrics, you exert the force of your body against an immutable object or surface: you increase heart rate without any lifting or moving. I can increase my heart rate just by thought.

 

You and me will always argue about useless details.

[Im Your Man]

By the way, I'm not saying you're wrong.

lifting more weight will burn more calories then lifting less - simple physics man.

I'm saying the "more weight" doesn't have to be in 1 rep; what counts is the tonnage -- you can lift a total of more weight (and therefore burn more fat) by doing a workout session of circuit training, super-sets or triple-sets of 15-25 reps by alternating/changing muscle groups at each set, for 1 hour, rather than the program you suggested, for 1 hour too. Each rep will involves lifting heavy loads, but you'll never get a tonnage as high as with circuit training, if you do only 8-12 reps and rest between each set.

 

But if we're talking about gaining size and building the foundations of musculature, your program is best, of course. While isolation movements with traditional bodybuilding system rather than powerlifting, will define more precisely each muscle, and then the 3rd stage may be circuit training, to tone even more.

[veggieprincess]

Diet is fine for the day, but cut out all that starch at nighttime if you're trying to burn fat.

 

You're metabolism is slower at nighttime and all that starch your taking in at night is being stored as fat. Switch it to a stir fry with high protein tofu and tons of green veggies.

 

Add a couple of healthy fats like a few almonds to the morning cereal and a small amount of sesame oil or nuts to the evening meal (not too many... but your body will USE small amounts of healthy fats and it can replace some of those starchy carbs)

 

And I would keep the cardio, but do low intensity cardio instead of HIIT AFTER your workouts. HIIT may compromise the lean muscle tissue you are trying to maintain.

 

Final tip, is I would start drinking a recovery/BCAA supplement during your workouts to maintain your muscle. My favorite is Xtend by Scivation.

[DaN]

 

Cut out the wheat products, & the whey protein powder.

 

Replace with rice & drink hemp/or pea protein powder.

 

Also do some swimming.That hits every muscle group & burns fat hard.

[bodybag]

Cut out the wheat products....

Why did you suggest cutting out wheat products entirely? They're a good source of fiber and protien. I know wheat products have quite a bit of carbs, but if eaten in small portions and moderation a few servings/day won't fatten a person up.

[Im Your Man]

Cut out the wheat products....

Why did you suggest cutting out wheat products entirely? They're a good source of fiber and protien. I know wheat products have quite a bit of carbs, but if eaten in small portions and moderation a few servings/day won't fatten a person up.

It's just that it's ideal to cut wheat entirely. Besides, it's not always easy to only eat wheat in moderation, because it's now in so many products. There are so many other varieties of grains. Wheat has been hybridized so much over the past centuries, more than any other grain. So many people prefer now to go back to kamut or spelt, ancient wheats. Like you said, there's lots of carbs in wheat: more than any other grain. But that is only bad for sedentary people, or if you're eating too much. When energy from wheat is not burned, it tends to foul the system and cause acidosis. There's the gluten problem: now everyone is at least a bit allergic to it, due to the omnipresence of wheat everywhere in the food chain. There's gluten in other grains too, but less.

 

 

I suggest, as much as possible, to replace wheat by other grains:

rye encourages the development of muscles while wheat fosters the development of adipose tissue.

Spelt, essen, rice (brown rice, wild rice). Quinoa is said to be the only grain wich is a complete protein, contains all the essential amino acids in sufficient amount. Buckwheat gives strength. Corn, rich in energy, magnesium, proteins and carbohydrates. Millet is high in proteins. Oats gives full force to the horse who eats it.

[Im Your Man]

Cut out the wheat products....

Why did you suggest cutting out wheat products entirely? They're a good source of fiber and protien. I know wheat products have quite a bit of carbs, but if eaten in small portions and moderation a few servings/day won't fatten a person up.

It's just that it's ideal to cut wheat entirely. Besides, it's not always easy to only eat wheat in moderation, because it's now in so many products. There are so many other varieties of grains. Wheat has been hybridized so much over the past centuries, more than any other grain. So many people prefer now to go back to kamut or spelt, ancient wheats. Like you said, there's lots of carbs in wheat: more than any other grain. But that is only bad for sedentary people, or if you're eating too much. When energy from wheat is not burned, it tends to foul the system and cause acidosis. There's the gluten problem: now everyone is at least a bit allergic to it, due to the omnipresence of wheat everywhere in the food chain. There's gluten in other grains too, but less.

 

 

I suggest, as much as possible, to replace wheat by other grains:

rye encourages the development of muscles while wheat fosters the development of adipose tissue.

Spelt, essen, rice (brown rice, wild rice). Quinoa is said to be the only grain wich is a complete protein, contains all the essential amino acids in sufficient amount. Buckwheat gives strength. Corn, rich in energy, magnesium, proteins and carbohydrates. Millet is high in proteins. Oats gives full force to the horse who eats it.