Deadlift Progress

[threeloaves]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w41aec05nuI

 

My deadlift numbers are going up while my squats are remaining the same. They have actually gone down a bit in the last year.

 

Ryan has already given me some excellent advice to improve my form here. More suggestions are welcome.

[tuc]

Good work lifting well above double your body weight!

 

I'd try to use legs even more so that you wouldn't have to work so hard with your back. It's hard, I've been trying to do that for a while now...

[lee]

Holy Cow - If i did that I would get a major back pain!

[threeloaves]

Holy Cow - If i did that I would get a major back pain!

If my form that bad?

[mikkei]

Damn dude! That's some great freaking progress. I'm shooting for two times my body weight, hopefully I can join you soon up there. I'm at 135 and only lifting around 200lbs. You rock man.

[threeloaves]

Damn dude! That's some great freaking progress. I'm shooting for two times my body weight, hopefully I can join you soon up there. I'm at 135 and only lifting around 200lbs. You rock man.

Thanks, keep crushin' - you'll be there in no time.

[ralst]

Good deadlifting, threeloaves. From what I can see, your form looks pretty solid. It looks like it might be possible to get some more quadriceps involvement in breaking the weight off the floor, but it's a bit hard to tell viewing from the front. If you could get a video from the side or at an oblique angle it would be easier to give advice. But still, great pulling. Looks like a pretty nice gym setup too, though I'd advise you to ditch the gloves and get some chalk to complete the atmosphere

 

- Eric

[threeloaves]

Good deadlifting, threeloaves. From what I can see, your form looks pretty solid. It looks like it might be possible to get some more quadriceps involvement in breaking the weight off the floor, but it's a bit hard to tell viewing from the front. If you could get a video from the side or at an oblique angle it would be easier to give advice. But still, great pulling. Looks like a pretty nice gym setup too, though I'd advise you to ditch the gloves and get some chalk to complete the atmosphere

 

- Eric

I was working on my form the other day. I think I figured a few things out that have helped me with the initial pull.

 

I agree with ditching the gloves. That isn't where I normally train. I was visiting my parents and decided to throw some weights around.

 

I'm usually here:

 

 

Thanks Eric

[threeloaves]

Good deadlifting, threeloaves. From what I can see, your form looks pretty solid. It looks like it might be possible to get some more quadriceps involvement in breaking the weight off the floor, but it's a bit hard to tell viewing from the front. If you could get a video from the side or at an oblique angle it would be easier to give advice. But still, great pulling. Looks like a pretty nice gym setup too, though I'd advise you to ditch the gloves and get some chalk to complete the atmosphere

 

- Eric

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZr9bpwMCtQ

[VeganEssentials]

You're definitely using 95% lower back to move it, but the good news is, you're keeping a solid arch the whole way and don't break form in the torso department. So, you've obviously got a strong lower back, now all we've got to do is work on getting some better leg recruitment in there and you'll be golden (and probably lifting 350+ before you know it).

 

Basically, you're starting the lift by raising your butt and straightening your legs before you start to pull off the floor. It can be a tough routine to get out of, but by no means impossible. You'll likely want to think about taking a few months to drop the weight and work on getting that part nailed down to work on the ideal technique change. I'm not the world's greatest coach, so I'll just post some classic T-Mag articles about how to get the most out of your pulling technique straight from the mouths of those who know more than I do:

 

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_dead_zone

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/mastering_the_deadlift_part_ii

 

As they'll go over in the articles, think about pushing through the floor with your heels and keeping the movement tight at all times, having it flow rather than feel segmented. An ideal deadlift for your body type should feel like everything runs together in a chain with no noticeable breaks in the transition as the bar moves upward. I have the feeling you can tell when your rear comes up and the legs extend and THEN the lower back kicks in to get the bar started moving upward. The goal is to get everything to work in sync so that you're driving your heels in with tight form and the bar will flow upward naturally as your legs and lower back work together vs. working separately. It'll be a bit of a weird feel getting into this new form, but once you do, I'm pretty sure you're going to find that your max will jump up considerably once you adapt. Right now, there's no question that you've got a strong lower back in the equation - now it's just a matter of getting everything to work together and good things will happen

 

EDIT - Never underestimate the changes that can happen even with a minor adjustment to foot placement. If you find that your current stance continues to give you any trouble while working to change form, try altering your stance a bit by going narrower or wider and changing the angle of your feet slightly as well. A wider stance always makes me feel more work in the glutes and hamstrings and gives me a whole different feel coming off the floor, whereas a narrow stance (feet only about 12-14" apart) is where I feel strongest in my lower back on the initial part of the pull and incorporates more quadriceps activity. Play around with your stance a bit while experimenting, and once you find what feels best, keep at it until it becomes second nature!

Edited June 26, 2009 by VeganEssentials

[ralst]

Coupled with what VeganEssentials said, go ahead and gain about 62 lbs - not sure but that should take you up to a nice round number

 

Good pulling, man. How long have you been lifting, if you don't mind my asking? Are you trying to put on bodyweight at all?

[el_flaco]

Setup looks strange to me. You look ok, then you rock backwards.

 

Are you intentionally trying to bring your shoulders backwards? I did this for a while and it messed me up off the floor. Once I lengthened my spine, kept the shoulders over the bar and drove the knees forward to initiate the lift I started getting a good drive off the floor.

[threeloaves]

Ryan, once again I appreciate the thorough response. I've been so busy at work lately I haven't had time to post a proper reply. 95% lower back...really? I've never had lower back pain or felt strain in that area. I guess my form is pretty terrible.

 

The main things I focus on are pushing from my heels (sometimes i'll even use the toe curling technique), and not arching my back. I try to pinch my shoulders back in order to keep my chest up (as if I were benching) which I now know is wrong. Also, keeping my shoulders over the bar.

 

I was practicing today, and noticed Im not pulling back. When I tried to use leverage and positioning as described in that article it felt very awkward. The bar was tearing my shins up, and i kept falling on my ass. Are you meant to pull back the entire pull?

 

I have the feeling you can tell when your rear comes up and the legs extend and THEN the lower back kicks in to get the bar started moving upward.

Absolutely.

 

Are you intentionally trying to bring your shoulders backwards? I did this for a while and it messed me up off the floor. Once I lengthened my spine, kept the shoulders over the bar and drove the knees forward to initiate the lift I started getting a good drive off the floor.

I am trying to pinch my shoulders back - as stated above. Can you explain to me what you mean by driving your knees forward?

 

Coupled with what VeganEssentials said, go ahead and gain about 62 lbs - not sure but that should take you up to a nice round number

Holy smokes I would be a lard ass.

 

Good pulling, man. How long have you been lifting, if you don't mind my asking? Are you trying to put on bodyweight at all?

Thanks. I only got into weight training a few years ago (3 maybe 4 years) I was so on point with my routine, and eating, but never made gains. This past year I really tried to focus on just lifting heavy, and eating everything. I was around 118lbs around this time last year. Currently I'm only 138-140lbs.

 

Im still nowhere near happy with my physique. I'm pushing heavier weight, but it doesn't look like I'm putting on muscle. How do these featherweight fighters do it?!

[CollegeB]

You do have a good foundation to build build on. I think you're right on track as far as weight goes. 300lb lift at near 140 body weight is impressive! I worked on form similar to what VE said and it took the pressure off my lower back some which reduced pain and made me more encouraged to attempt heavier deadlifts. Eat more and dont worry about fat too much. If you have a bicycle, ride it some which will give you cardio and can work out the quads if you do some hill climbing. Keep us posted on your progress, its great to see another vegan dominating the heavy weights.

[VeganEssentials]

Ryan, once again I appreciate the thorough response. I've been so busy at work lately I haven't had time to post a proper reply. 95% lower back...really? I've never had lower back pain or felt strain in that area. I guess my form is pretty terrible.

 

Not terrible, just that you're going to find that you'll start moving more weight once you learn to incorporate your legs more and get some drive off of them. I just look at it as if you're basically doing stiff-legged deadlifts - you've built a strong back from it, but once you learn to get those legs in there, you'll find that you're going to jump up in max weight and/or reps with your current max. You could very well go for a long, long time without any lower back issues - stiff-legging it doesn't mean that somethings bound to go wrong, but more than anything, it will make progression more difficult and will slow you down from what you could accomplish with some form changes. Definitely nothing to feel bad about - your technique has certainly given you a strong lower back, now it's just time to hone technique and I could see you pulling 400+ within a year even if your bodyweight didn't budge up too much more

 

The main things I focus on are pushing from my heels (sometimes i'll even use the toe curling technique), and not arching my back. I try to pinch my shoulders back in order to keep my chest up (as if I were benching) which I now know is wrong. Also, keeping my shoulders over the bar.

 

Glad to see that the articles had some good points to learn from. Pinching the shoulders back seems like a good idea, but in essence, it reduces arm length and puts more forward lean in, which won't make adjusting your technique any easier. That's why, in videos like the ones of Konstantinovs that were posted in another thread, he rounds his upper back forward since it gives him the best leverage for his pull (while keeping the lower back arched, of course). You have to experiment to find what works best for your body and learn to work with it, but it can take a bit of time to get to that spot.

 

I was practicing today, and noticed Im not pulling back. When I tried to use leverage and positioning as described in that article it felt very awkward. The bar was tearing my shins up, and i kept falling on my ass. Are you meant to pull back the entire pull?

 

When I was at my best, I ALWAYS tore my shins up pretty well (even though some people say that means you're pulling back too hard). Though, I just think of the pic of Andy Bolton after pulling 1008 lbs. and his bloody shins, and it always makes me feel better for it If you're falling backward, then I'd guess you're putting too much focus on pulling back and could lessen it a bit. You'll want to pull back to some degree, but the goal is to get it to be natural and not something you have to think about. Like I said, drop the weight down to maybe something like 185 and work on doubles with it for a while - if you feel like doing 20 sets to keep working on technique, go for it, as the more you do it the more you're going to hammer it home and make it habit once you find that groove. Sometimes it's tricky getting the proper weight to build ideal technique - if I tried to lear proper sumo deadlift form with 135, it would never feel right because it would be too easy. Find a weight you could pull for 8-12 reps and use that for sets of 2-3 and it should be around the mark for where you'll want to work on technique to where it's heavy enough to feel close to decent work, but not so heavy that you're going to be thrown for a curve while experimenting with form adjustments.

[el_flaco]

I am trying to pinch my shoulders back - as stated above. Can you explain to me what you mean by driving your knees forward?

I don't think it's a shoulder move, it's more a shifting of the weight onto the heels and dropping the ass backwards.

 

Here's the initial setup, which doesn't look so bad to me:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/spug_myers/soo_dead1.jpg

 

Then you rock backwards, leaving you in this position:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/spug_myers/soo_dead2.jpg

 

The above is the position I don't like. To me you are no longer in a position to make the bar move upwards. The bar is so far in front of you, when you drive with the legs the distance from the bar to your hips makes moving the bar at (at least) the same rate as your hips almost impossible. It's more likely your legs will extend but the bar will remain on the ground. Which is what is happening here:

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/spug_myers/soo_dead3.jpg

 

The cue to "drive the knees forward" is just to drop the hips a little from the first position. If you just pushed the knees forward a little from that position I think it'd be a pretty good starting point. I think it's a more effective mental cue than thinking about dropping the hips, as thinking about that leads you into a position like second frame.

 

I'd also bring the bar a little closer to you during setup, maybe that's a reason it's hitting your shins.

[oselifer]

Check this video..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX8jgCFXYTU&feature=channel

 

You must have a very good,solid technique before you go to heavy weights..

Its very dangerous trainning with bad technique and heavy weights.