UFC vs martial arts

[Igor Vovchanchyn]

Personally I'm a big fan of ufc (and pride and anything else I rent off amazon) but the claim (sometimes made) that it represents a true competition of the various martial arts to me seems innaccurate.

 

Im not saying the rules should be changed but with the set up as it is it seems to be a combination of wrestling, ju-jitsu and kickboxing. Most the other martial arts are nerfed by some part of the rules.

 

I dont espouse real violence. I do think though that the hugging in pride and ufc would not occur in a 'real' fight. Thats to say take downs and mounts would occur but the stuck situation wouldn't. (Of course my 'real' fight experience is just a few tussles as a kid)

 

Anybody elses thoughts on why their favourite martial art doesn't work in the ring?

 

Would Jet-Li beat up Chuck Liddel?

Whose meaner, a ninja or a wrestler?

Why do fun fighters (the new york bad ass) loose to dull ones (matt lindland)?

[finbarrio]

I think I know what you're saying. By the "true" martial arts, you don't mean boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, correct? (though there are certainly some elements of each in many martial arts).

I guess "mixed martial arts" is a misnomer in that sense. However, I think MMA has evolved to include whatever fighting style is necessary for fighters to succeed.

Successful MMA fighters, generally speaking, must incorporate aspects of the different styles or else they will be defeated by the style they lack.

So Jet Li might be able to kick and punch Chuck Liddell a few times because he may be better at those skills than Chuck, but give Chuck an opening, and he'll bring it to the ground where Jet Li might end up floundering because of a lack of wrestling and/or JJ skill.

As far as the "hugging" in a real fight - from what I've seen, if a fight gets past the first couple punches, it usually gets to the ground, where even basic wrestling skills can easily overwhelm an unstudied opponent. Throw in some JJ, and things will get ugly quick (there's no "tapping out" in a real fight). But then a 3rd party jumps in and all heck breaks loose.

[Igor Vovchanchyn]

But I saw Jet Li beat up Randy Couture on one of his movies!

 

Still I would imagine Jet Li although not neacessarily knowing wrestling might know some nasty gouges/holds and stuff. Clavicle gouge, small joint manipulation, eye gouge, biting, maybe just grabbing the nuts.

 

Just playing devils advocate really - I'm not personally knowledgeable

[xdarthveganx]

But I saw Jet Li beat up Randy Couture on one of his movies!

 

Still I would imagine Jet Li although not neacessarily knowing wrestling might know some nasty gouges/holds and stuff. Clavicle gouge, small joint manipulation, eye gouge, biting, maybe just grabbing the nuts.

 

Just playing devils advocate really - I'm not personally knowledgeable

 

 

I think you need to watch more of the older ufc's. That stuff isnt in the UFC anymore because its mostly flashy and dosent work.

[Guest]

I think maybe some of that flash junk(from some people) would work on the street without a ring and a ref...maybe/probably I'm wrong but who knows???

[xdarthveganx]

I think maybe some of that flash junk(from some people) would work on the street without a ring and a ref...maybe/probably I'm wrong but who knows???

 

I am sure alot of it would. Alot of stuff works when your oponnent knows nothing about martial arts.

[fudgam]

Does Jet Li compete? As far as I know, hes just a tricker. If he was just a tricker, then chuck Liddell would royally whoop his ass; on the ground or standing.

[BJJVegan]

Does Jet Li compete? As far as I know, hes just a tricker. If he was just a tricker, then chuck Liddell would royally whoop his ass; on the ground or standing.

 

Im pretty sure Jet Li isnt all "tricker." Its prob how he makes all his money. But i dont know if he has the skills of a MMA fighter. Chuck Liddell might just whoop him.

 

I know wikipedia isnt all that reliable because you can edit it and write whatever you want in it.

But heres a link of the "National Treasure" Jet Li http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_Li

[Guest]

He's definately the real deal...no Jackie Chan or Zhang Ziyi(hottest asian woman on earth) who were trained in theatre and dance. Don't know about fighting in a ring but I could imagine his chances out in the open would be much better...doubtful chance against someone like Liddel though

[MarginWalker79]

i can't remember where i read it online but it was a biography of jet li. he's legit. he was the national martial arts champ (adult open division) by the time he was 12 i think? out of any actor who does martial arts, chuck norris included, i think jet li could more than hold his own in the ufc. if i can find the link i'll post it. it was amazing to read how he grew up and bascially stopped going to academic school and was made to just train all day everyday as a kid.

[Hero]

Does Jet Li compete? As far as I know, hes just a tricker. If he was just a tricker, then chuck Liddell would royally whoop his ass; on the ground or standing.

 

no he doesnt anymore. he has retired from the public eye.

[Hero]

I am not a fan of UFC at all.

 

I enjoy MA because of the art of it and the spirituality. I dont enjoy watching two people fight each other just for the sake of competition.

[damdaman]

Competition, even UFC competition, is very different from a street fight, in my opinion. I would put my money on a trained, true martial artist from a legitimate fighting art over a UFC guy any day on the street. Yes, the UFC guy would probably be bigger, stronger, meaner and more aggressive, but a true martial artist has spent decades developing his or her inner chi and when you train that for a long enough time, you can do some amazing things that no amount of competition/bulking up/aggressiveness can overcome.

 

Unfortunately with the popularization of MMA, true martial artists seem to be becoming rarer and rarer. The black belts in the art I train have to undergo a 48-hour long test (24 hours of physical tests followed by 24 hours of meditation). They have such an amazing presence and can project their energy, their will without even lifting a finger. No modern MMA fighter (that I know of) has that ability.

[veganmomma]

There are rules in MMA, however most guys/gals trained in striking and grappling at an MMA club know how to use illegal "sneak" moves in a street fight.

 

Pride Rules

Grounds for Disqualification

No head butting, eye gouging, hair pulling, biting or fish hooking.

No attacking the groin

No strikes (kicks, elbows, punching) to the back of the head (which includes the occipital region and the spine). The sides of the head and the area around the ears are not considered to be the back of the head.

No small joint manipulation (control of four or more fingers/toes is necessary).

No elbow strikes to the head and face.

No kicks or knees to the head or the face of an opponent who falls face down.

 

UFC Rules

Fouls:

1. Butting with the head.

2. Eye gouging of any kind.

3. Biting.

4. Hair pulling.

5. Fish hooking.

6. Groin attacks of any kind.

7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.

8. Small joint manipulation.

9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.

10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.

11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.

12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.

13. Grabbing the clavicle.

14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.

15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.

16. Stomping a grounded opponent.

17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.

18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.

[Guest]

Take a look at this...it shows a very gifted martial artist getting embarrassed by an MMA fighter.

 

[veganmomma]

Take a look at this...it shows a very gifted martial artist getting embarrassed by an MMA fighter.

 

Yeah, that was a beatdown.

[pazios2002]

Take a look at this...it shows a very gifted martial artist getting embarrassed by an MMA fighter.

 

 

I didnt see the contract, but was hitting to the face allowed.

 

the fat guy apologizes for hitting the old guy in the nose, but then hits him three times in the face when they re-engage. If you include the kicks its like 4-5 times total .

 

It seems to me that the old guy and the fat guy were fighting two different fights.

 

Also I have no idea what the old guy was doing with his students. Could he be further away from them ?

[Guest]

I don't think it matters what the rules were. Normally I would think so but this guy was so cocky he should have been able to handle the other dude. However he had no idea what was coming.

[damdaman]

That hardly looks like a fight to me. I don't really know what a kiai master is, since a kiai is only one technique that you can use in a fight, but this guy didn't seem to really know how to fight at all. I can't imagine that any halfway competent student in a real fighting art that's trained for as little as six months would have gotten beat down that quickly by those attacks. The guy didn't even try and parry or keep his hands up.

 

Also, as someone else pointed out, the video of his training is suspect since there's no contact with his students.

[Guest]

I think the lack of contact was a show of energy without contact...which I don't really believe in. Either way surely he would kill the majority of people on the street with little effort but not a decent MMA fighter.

[slackar]

That video was garbage... the instructor was obviously insane if he really believed that he was destroying all of his students without touching them.

 

And also, you cannot with 100% certainty conclude that traditional martial artists would be ineffective in an MMA fight; although, the more well-rounded one is, the better off he/she would be.

 

You have to take into consideration the possibility that people who are absolutely amazing in a particular discipline do not get into it because they desire to be prizefighters... they get into it for the purpose of self-defense; therefore, you'd never see them in an actual competition.

 

Just because in the earlier UFC competitions, dudes claimed to practice a particular style, does not mean that they were actually good representatives of that discipline.

 

Agree, or disagree?

[Guest]

I wouldn't say they are all bad either. Some of them have been professional K2 fighters, as well as carriers of multiple black belts in multiple disciplines.

[xdarthveganx]

That video was garbage... the instructor was obviously insane if he really believed that he was destroying all of his students without touching them.

 

And also, you cannot with 100% certainty conclude that traditional martial artists would be ineffective in an MMA fight; although, the more well-rounded one is, the better off he/she would be.

 

You have to take into consideration the possibility that people who are absolutely amazing in a particular discipline do not get into it because they desire to be prizefighters... they get into it for the purpose of self-defense; therefore, you'd never see them in an actual competition.

 

Just because in the earlier UFC competitions, dudes claimed to practice a particular style, does not mean that they were actually good representatives of that discipline.

 

Agree, or disagree?

 

 

A few were Dutch Karate champions as well.