Coffee: Good or Bad?

[Guest]

I think coffee is bad too but I've met so maybe old healthy people that have been drinking coffee in a manner I would call excessive for there whole adult lives

[flanders77]

caffein

 

That is an URL.

 

@Potter: There are also people who get quite old while smoking a hundred cigarettes a day, but that does not mean smoking is healthy

[mm]

Here's another URL: Wikipedia - Coffee

 

Studies are contradictory as to whether coffee has any specific health benefits, and results are similarly conflicting with respect to negative effects of coffee consumption.[23] In addition, it is often unclear whether these risks or benefits are linked to caffeine or whether they are to be attributed to other chemical substances found in coffee (and whether decaffeinated coffee carries the same benefits or risks).[citation needed]

 

One fairly consistent finding has been the reduction of diabetes mellitus type 2 in coffee consumers, an association that cannot be explained by the caffeine content alone and indeed may be stronger in decaffeinated coffee.[24]

 

Recently, coffee was found to reduce the chances of developing cirrhosis of the liver: the consumption of 1 cup a day was found to reduce the chances by 20%, and 4 cups a day reduced the chances by 80%.[25]

 

and most importantly

 

Effects on baldness

 

A study has found that caffeine blocks the effects of dihydrotestosterone (DHT), known to damage hair follicles.[67][68] Scientists estimate up to 60 cups of coffee a day would be needed for significant amounts to reach follicles in the scalp, prompting German cosmetics firm Alpecin to develop caffeine-rich solutions for topical application to the head.

 

Only 60 cups of coffee to keep my hair? Jesus Christ, I'm gonna start right now! Who knows, maybe I'll look like Braveheart next week.

No, seriously, given the two links I don't see any reason to advocate the non-use of coffee. The caffeine-entry on Wikipedia makes a distinction between 'moderate consumption', 'overuse' and 'coffeine intoxication'. Maybe taking this differentiation and applying it to our discussion would be more helpful.

[jonzen]

I knew that there had to be a reason why I like good espresso! I have to take dilantin for epilepsy, a drug known to effect the liver in a negative way. Maybe my body knew that coffee helps the liver a little bit? Like Formicalinoleum, I like the taste of espresso!

 

Everything in moderation is pretty good advice, except when it comes to kale!

 

I'd like a 12 oz double half decaf latte with soy served in a small salt glazed bowl please. And you?

 

Will there be espresso at the VV'07??

[flanders77]

Everything in moderation is pretty good advice

 

As a strainght edge (and nearly raw) vegan I cannot agree to that statement because this is exactly what all meateating, milkandalcoholdrinking, smoking and notmoving normal people always tell me.

 

@mm: I do not know every study obout coffee/caffein. As mentioned above you can find a study to proof almost everything. The link from wikipedia I privided was meant to show how caffein works inside the body especially on a hormonal level.

IMO when the intervention of a study has positive effects on meateating, milkandalcoholdrinking, smoking and notmoving normal people that does not mean the substance tested is healthy at all. The multiple different drugs consumed might act together in the body and sometimes minus and minus becomes plus

[michaelhobson]

As a strainght edge (and nearly raw) vegan

 

Aye, that helps me understand your take on the situation, thanks for clarifying. Even with meat eating, I agree that moderate intake is not bad for a person's health. That's not why I'm vegan, I'm vegan for ethical reasons.

[Zack]

Everything in moderation is pretty good advice

 

As a strainght edge (and nearly raw) vegan I cannot agree to that statement because this is exactly what all meateating, milkandalcoholdrinking, smoking and notmoving normal people always tell me.

 

They don't practice moderation.

[jonzen]

You know, you are right, that was a preposterous statement to make coming from a vegan! What was I thinking? Okay, I accept that coffee beans are evil and espresso is the drink of the devil I will work on letting go of my love for it. Of course that is easier for me to say right now, since I just finished off a soy cappuccino!

 

Life is a process, and I am enjoying it tremendously. Thank you, flanders77, for acting as my conscience on this subject. I want to do what is best for my body and for our planet and all it's inhabitants.

 

Sometimes I screw up.

[Guest]

@Potter: There are also people who get quite old while smoking a hundred cigarettes a day, but that does not mean smoking is healthy

 

I know this but since it doesn't effect everyone the same way it has to be taken case by case...surely consequences of smoking are late to judge but things like caffeine seem to be much easier.

[Zack]

Even with meat eating, I agree that moderate intake is not bad for a person's health. That's not why I'm vegan, I'm vegan for ethical reasons.

 

I knew there was a reason I like ya. You are logical.

[FormicaLinoleum]

Aye, that helps me understand your take on the situation, thanks for clarifying. Even with meat eating, I agree that moderate intake is not bad for a person's health. That's not why I'm vegan, I'm vegan for ethical reasons.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. I'm vegan for ethical reasons, so moderate consumption of animal products is out of the question. I am, however, very much OK with moderate consumption of "unhealthy" items.

 

I think that's where the disconnect is here. Is coffee so bad that it should never be consumed? For someone who is aiming for a totally pure diet, then it probably should be eliminated. But for people who want a moderately healthy diet that does allow some indulgences, there's little reason to give it up.

[mm]

I think I found a way to unite every opinion in here: Kopi Luwak

Kopi Luwak or Civet coffee is coffee made from coffee cherries which have been eaten by and passed through the digestive tract of the Asian Palm Civet (Paradoxurus hermaphroditus). The animals gorge on the ripe berries, and excrete partially-digested beans in their feces, which are then harvested for sale. This process takes place on the islands of Sumatra, Java and Sulawesi in the Indonesian Archipelago, in the Philippines (where the product is called Kape Alamid), in the country of Vietnam, and the coffee estates of south India.

Jesus.

[flanders77]

As a strainght edge (and nearly raw) vegan

 

Aye, that helps me understand your take on the situation, thanks for clarifying. Even with meat eating, I agree that moderate intake is not bad for a person's health. That's not why I'm vegan, I'm vegan for ethical reasons.

 

I am vegan for ethical reasons as well, but that actually has nothing do do with eating/acting in a healthy way. Of course a little bit of whatever will probably not make anyone ill, but the fact remains that certain things are bad (usually poisoning) for the body and other things are not. Coffee belongs to the first group. I never said that moderate consumption of coffe would make someone ill.

 

Everything in moderation is pretty good advice

 

As a strainght edge (and nearly raw) vegan I cannot agree to that statement because this is exactly what all meateating, milkandalcoholdrinking, smoking and notmoving normal people always tell me.

 

They don't practice moderation.

 

Of course you are right for most cases. But where do they/can you draw the line between moderate and unmoderate. My way to handle it is: the less, the better.

 

@Potter: There are also people who get quite old while smoking a hundred cigarettes a day, but that does not mean smoking is healthy

 

I know this but since it doesn't effect everyone the same way it has to be taken case by case...surely consequences of smoking are late to judge but things like caffeine seem to be much easier.

 

IMO it not has be be looked upon case by case but some cases/persons just have enough luck and/or protective factors not to get ill.

For sure caffeine seems to be easier. But as I said: some years ago everyone thought tobacco was not unhealthy at all.

 

Is coffee so bad that it should never be consumed? For someone who is aiming for a totally pure diet, then it probably should be eliminated. But for people who want a moderately healthy diet that does allow some indulgences, there's little reason to give it up.

 

IMO a moderately healthy diet will lead to a moderate health. For me it comes down to this: I only have one body - thats why I am trying to treat him as good as possible. That is logical in my eyes ( ) - not acting moderately healthy/unhealthy and make my body handle avoidable stresses.

[Guest]

Really coffee in moderate amounts could even be healthy...its quite antioxidant dense...maybe its like coconuts...one a day and its good...two a day is stretching it and three a day and your on your way to the fat farm

[FormicaLinoleum]

Is coffee so bad that it should never be consumed? For someone who is aiming for a totally pure diet, then it probably should be eliminated. But for people who want a moderately healthy diet that does allow some indulgences, there's little reason to give it up.

IMO a moderately healthy diet will lead to a moderate health. For me it comes down to this: I only have one body - thats why I am trying to treat him as good as possible. That is logical in my eyes ( ) - not acting moderately healthy/unhealthy and make my body handle avoidable stresses.

Sure, I agree that eating unhealthy things (e.g., cupcakes) even in moderation will result in less optimal health than will never eating such things. My point is that not everyone has the goal of optimal health. I do understand your reasoning in going for optimal health. I'm just pointing out that not everyone comes to the same conclusion. Life requires balancing things that are good for you but perhaps not enjoyable and things that are enjoyable but perhaps not good for you. You strongly favor things that are good for you. Other people are on the other extreme and do all kinds of unhealthy things and don't care much about what it does to their bodies. Then there are people who are in the middle who try to do healthy things most of the time, but do allow themselves unhealthy things now and then. Coffee is not so horrible for people that it's completely incompatible with a pretty healthy lifestyle.

[michaelhobson]

I only have one body - thats why I am trying to treat him as good as possible. That is logical in my eyes ( ) - not acting moderately healthy/unhealthy and make my body handle avoidable stresses.

 

Don't forget a mind that needs to be treated well too. Some of us find intense pleasure in coffee and other "poisons". For us reasonably good physical health is a good balance to reasonably good mental health.

 

All of us draw the line somewhere. Riding in the car can be a serious health hazard. But most of us take our chances and go where we want to go. Safer is not always better.

[FormicaLinoleum]

Don't forget a mind that needs to be treated well too. Some of us find intense pleasure in coffee and other "poisons". For us reasonably good physical health is a good balance to reasonably good mental health.

Once again you said what I meant to say, but much more succinctly.

[chesty leroux]

I think I found a way to unite every opinion in here: Kopi Luwak

Kopi Luwak or Civet coffee is coffee made from coffee cherries which have been eaten by and passed through the digestive tract of the Asian Palm Civet (Paradoxurus hermaphroditus). The animals gorge on the ripe berries, and excrete partially-digested beans in their feces, which are then harvested for sale. This process takes place on the islands of Sumatra, Java and Sulawesi in the Indonesian Archipelago, in the Philippines (where the product is called Kape Alamid), in the country of Vietnam, and the coffee estates of south India.

Jesus.

 

yum.

 

haha i actually heard about this stuff on CSI or something like that. Civet poo coffee. They busted a murdered cause he was the only one who drank it or something, its expensive.

 

I'm not a huge coffee fan but i do dig it sometimes. And i've been a caffiene whore for a good year now. I had a stint where i breifly gave it up, and i felt more awake most of the time, but i ended up going back to it....

 

thanks guys now i want coffee.

[cubby2112]

I only have one body - thats why I am trying to treat him as good as possible. That is logical in my eyes ( ) - not acting moderately healthy/unhealthy and make my body handle avoidable stresses.

 

Don't forget a mind that needs to be treated well too. Some of us find intense pleasure in coffee and other "poisons". For us reasonably good physical health is a good balance to reasonably good mental health.

 

All of us draw the line somewhere. Riding in the car can be a serious health hazard. But most of us take our chances and go where we want to go. Safer is not always better.

 

Well said. To me, it should just be left up to the individual person. If he/she loves coffee and a cup now and then, or one a day, etcetera, is a great pleasure and stress reliever (I know caffeine can raise stress levels, but I believe that can be outweighed by the individual's love of it), then I would say go ahead and indulge. I like coffee, but I don't drink it anymore because I have gone completely straightedge and I feel better without it. This is not the case for all.

[michaelhobson]

Poop coffee? Even I draw the line somewhere!

 

Hm, would poop coffee be vegan?

[sydneyvegan]

Poop coffee? Even I draw the line somewhere!

 

Hm, would poop coffee be vegan?

 

That's a good question... I would say no... But then are Vegetables that have been fertilized with animal manure also not vegan?

 

If it doesn't hurt the cat and is a waste product.... interesting...

 

I drink 1 cup of coffee a day and I love it... I don't have to drink it, but I love it in all it's dark, bitter, goodness Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

 

I'm going to Hell anyway, so I might as well drink coffee.

[oregonisaac]

Personal opinion, caffeine is not a food, nor is it a something the body uses or builds anything with, nor is it water, therefore it is not "good" for me. That and I would rather have energy all the time, not just when I drink caffeine.

 

I still eat chocolate sometimes though, and there is really no difference there, and maybe someday I will give that up! We are all on our own journey, and we can all support all journeys!

[robert]

I know you have tons of energy these days! I liked the story about snowboarding. Imagine what the typical person eating fast food would have experienced. They probably would have been passed out with little energy.

 

I really like hearing the stories from you and davidtarrfoster as new vegans and your experiences with increased energy and overall health. For me it has been so long since I wasn't a vegan I don't know what it was like before.

 

Feel free to share some of your stories or experiences with our online community too.

 

Good explanation about why you don't drink coffee too. Very good thoughts in that about building, food, and necessity, or lack there of.

[flanders77]

@MH, Formica and the other discussion partners:

Forgive me if I "preached" to much. As some others I stated my opinion. I do strongly believe coffee is not healthy for many reasons.

If somebody or somemind feels the need to drink coffee for forever reason I am far from judging him/her. As mentioned above everybody draws the line somewhere else. For me it is more important to be able to move the line and be in a steady developement. What a person puts inside his/her body is the most personal thing to imagine, so everyone has to decide for him/herself.

My ability to translate my german thoughts into english words obviously unsufficient sometimes.

Some thoughts I still have to get rid of:

1. IMO the "intense pleasure" or "love" mentioned by MH and cubby is often mixed up with addiction. (Which does not mean that you are addicted of course)

2. I knew from the beginning of the discussion the "driving-in-a-car-is-dangerous-argument would come up somewhere

3. I wrote: "IMO a moderately healthy diet will lead to a moderate health. For me it comes down to this: I only have one body - thats why I am trying to treat him as good as possible. That is logical in my eyes ( ) - not acting moderately healthy/unhealthy and make my body handle avoidable stresses."

I emphazised that it is my personal opinion that works for me. I am happy that we are all different concerning our believes, thoughts and stage of life.

[jonzen]

I am bowing deeply in your direction, dear Flanders77, thank you for nudging me along on this path to health. I admire your stance and your dedication to your body!