Animal activists attacking scientists’ homes

[michaelhobson]

This is a long article, but well worth the read.

 

Animal activists attacking scientists’ homes

More protesters using firebombs, flooding, acid at researchers’ front doors

 

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/ap/ae224888-eb03-4cad-8612-6bbf0ccf0a56.hmedium.jpg

Animal rights activists, who declined to give their names, demonstrate outside the home of a University of California professor in Berkeley, Calif.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25574658/

[Im Your Man]

I like that.

Sometimes things aren't moving fast enough and some more drastic measures are necessary to make things change.

I'm for terrorism as long as there's no harmed life and no physical injuries, and when it's necessary. Socially accepted terrorism, or the kind of terrorist acts showed in the movie Fight Club.

[Richard]

"It's not inhumane, all we do is give the monkey an illness, try to find a cure, then we kill them and cut up their brains. What's inhumane about that?"

 

I don't have much to say about that kind of person

[xjohanx]

i don't have time to read the full article but it seems fair to me. however i hat that Dr. Jerry Vlasak and everyone else who claims to be spokes persons for the alf

[Fallen_Horse]

"Accompanying the attacks is increasingly tough talk from activists such as Dr. Jerry Vlasak, a spokesman for the Animal Liberation Front press office. In an interview with The Associated Press, he said he is not encouraging anyone to commit murder, but "if you had to hurt somebody or intimidate them or kill them, it would be morally justifiable.""

 

Anyone know when this happened? Everything I have read from the ALF says do no harm, to animals or humans...

[Richard]

I think the idea is that it's "morally justifiable", but that's not the same as saying it should happen, or that he is promoting it

[beforewisdom]

I think this sort of thing is GREAT until I think of the example it will set for it being acceptable for people who don't agree with my life to protest me at my home.

 

How would I feel if a bunch of hooded christian activists showed up in front of my house and chalked on my street Fornicators, heathens, & Adulterers Live HERE because they know I am a single guy who goes out on dates with romantic conclusions, that I am not church goer?

 

or

 

I have some neighbors who are put out of work by new environmental regulations. They can't pay their bills. They see my pro-green bumper stickers. They spray paint Tree Huggers Won't Let Me Feed My Kids on the wall of my apartment

Edited July 8, 2008 by beforewisdom

[xjohanx]

ALF saves lives. That's the bottom line. I love them

[xjohanx]

The ALF doesn't look like idiots but you sound like one when you say stuff like that.

I consider every life saved to be a great victory and because of that I fully support the liberators. I totally agree with you that living a positive and healthy lifestyle sets great examples for others but liberating animals by night doesn't make it impossible to be a role model by day.

Last friday the Swedish ALF (DBF) burned down a building that was meant to be a slaughter house for elk. They were going to start killing animals September 1 but now they won't be able to. The owner says that they probably won't find another location and will just give up the idea. How is this bad?

I know that it might sound stupid but when I was a vegetarian one of the things that made me go vegan was the ALF. I thought they were really cool and I understood that the dairy and egg industry was horrible if people acctually were willing to sacrifice their freedom to saves those animals. I also think a lot of kids and rebelious teenagers can look up to the ALF and get into veganism that way.

[Michelle]

I think this sort of thing is GREAT until I think of the example it will set for it being acceptable for people who don't agree with my life to protest me at my home.

 

How would I feel if a bunch of hooded christian activists showed up in front of my house and chalked on my street Fornicators, heathens, & Adulterers Live HERE because they know I am a single guy who goes out on dates with romantic conclusions, that I am not church goer?

 

or

 

I have some neighbors who are put out of work by new environmental regulations. They can't pay their bills. They see my pro-green bumper stickers. They spray paint Tree Huggers Won't Let Me Feed My Kids on the wall of my apartment

 

This about sums it up.

 

I think that the message is very important, but there's got to be a better way to deliver it.

[xjohanx]

Jaleel:

Here in Lund we can thank the ALF that there's only two stores that sell fur details (it used to be over 10). Same story goes for the rest of the country. Fur farms are being raided, fur stores are being destroyed and hunting trips are sabotaged. One fur store owner was visited by activist in her home several times and when she asked the police what to do they answered "you better shut down". I love it. However you twist and turn it, lives are saved. You gotta appreciate the value in that!

[xjohanx]

agreed

[michaelhobson]

I think this sort of thing is GREAT until I think of the example it will set for it being acceptable for people who don't agree with my life to protest me at my home.

 

How would I feel if a bunch of hooded christian activists showed up in front of my house and chalked on my street Fornicators, heathens, & Adulterers Live HERE because they know I am a single guy who goes out on dates with romantic conclusions, that I am not church goer?

 

or

 

I have some neighbors who are put out of work by new environmental regulations. They can't pay their bills. They see my pro-green bumper stickers. They spray paint Tree Huggers Won't Let Me Feed My Kids on the wall of my apartment

 

The difference is that you and your family are not torturing and murdering other beings on a daily basis. That sets a wide gulf between your scenarios above and the real life scenarios in the article.

[beforewisdom]

It wouldn't to they types of people I mentioned in my examples. By their view my life might be just as offensive to them as vivisectors are to me. By their view, I would have it coming and they would simply be the ones vocalizing the truth, out loud, out in the open.

[michaelhobson]

It wouldn't to they types of people I mentioned in my examples. By their view my life might be just as offensive to them as vivisectors are to me. By their view, I would have it coming and they would simply be the ones vocalizing the truth, out loud, out in the open.

 

Good enough, I understand your point.

 

I like this one though "Fornicators, heathens, & Adulterers Live HERE", maybe not as a lawn sign or anything, but it would make a damn fine bumper sticker.

[MadamePhilosophy]

If you look back at history, many things that got the ball rolling for change had some involvement with violence. The French Revolution, The Revolutionary War, The Civil War....

 

I know what you're thinking "Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. never promoted violence." That's right, they didn't - and look who suffered for it. Furthermore, how long did it take African Americans to get their respect in the US? We're still working on it.

 

It would be a utopia in this world if we could all abide by Ghandi's ideals, all be peaceful, and all get along via acceptance of our differing beliefs. However, this world will never foster that kind of resolution because people who want things take them, they don't ask or negotiate.

 

As we're beginning to see - the world is a very divided place: those with money and power, and those without. For the ones familiar with history the "haves and havenots".

 

Thus, being leading examples of a beautiful, healthy, gleaming vegan would be enough to evoke change in the world of animal testing/slaughtering/torturing. But just like everything else in American culture easier said than done. We can hope and pray that people will eventually transition to vegetarian/veganism - but they won't because it's a challenge. Saying people will stop eating meat because vegans are awesome is like saying fat couch potatoes will start working out after watching a movie with Angelina Jolie starring as the lead role. That's a beautiful thought folks...but it's just not reality.

 

With all that said, I know some of you must be assuming that I, myself am a violent, hateful person. I must tell you - I am not, and no, I am not quick to decide that violence is the best answer, and no, I do NOT support the war in Iraq.

 

However, I do feel as if some things, some things cannot come without a fight - and my friends, animal rights is one of them.

 

Do you really think that living a cruelty free life is going to stop animal testing? And if so, examine how much good it's done thusfar. I dislike violence as much as the rest of us vegans, but sometimes it's necessary - because if we don't stand up for the animals, no one else will; either because of apathy or fear. It is our responsibility to embrace the drawbacks that come along with necessary measures.

 

Nothing worth having is ever easy to obtain.

 

I wouldn't want psycho Christian's outside my door either, but if I murdered or purposefully tortured, or caused the unnecessary harm of a living thing I would understand their anger. Mutual sexual relations is a pleasurable, healthy thing - slaughtering animals is not.

 

 

http://bullsheet.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/logo.jpg

[MadamePhilosophy]

If you look back at history, many things that got the ball rolling for change had some involvement with violence. The French Revolution, The Revolutionary War, The Civil War....

 

Those are all examples where a large portion of the population was ready for change, and it was intellectuals like Voltaire and John Locke who really predicated the changes as far as galvanizing enough people to actually make a difference. I fail to see how those wars have any correlation to small factions of angry extremists like ALF, or any other extremist group for that matter.

 

 

I believe that it correlates because there is a growing number of people who make themselves more aware of what is going on in the world of animal rights. Yes, you are correct in your statement about the "large portion of the population" but my point is - the "large" part had to start somewhere. And even so, "It's not always the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog." Animal rights activists may be grossly outnumbered, but they fight for what they believe in. There are lots of people who say I love animals but how many of those are actually willing to do something about it?

 

I'm not trying to defer you from your own beliefs, for the healthiest mental environment is a diverse one. I just feel that attempting to be role models for a population that doesn't pay attention is wasted energy.

[CollegeB]

I agree with Jaleel. I don't think it's right to force morals on anyone. I think it just causes resentment. There is a lot of sentiment against PETA just within my family, but none of them have anything against boca burgers. I'd be very outraged if some ALF folks killed anyone in my family because could be looked at as "morally justified." But I dont think that would happen. I've never heard of anyone from the ALF doing harm to someone. Instead of attacking individuals why "not attack" (protest and the like) the system which requires the type of behavior the ALF is trying to stop. Government subsidizes animal experimentation and agriculture, as well as requires animal testing for medications. Even PETA has enough sense to talk about this.

[beforewisdom]

I wouldn't want psycho Christian's outside my door either, but if I murdered or purposefully tortured, or caused the unnecessary harm of a living thing I would understand their anger. Mutual sexual relations is a pleasurable, healthy thing - slaughtering animals is not.

 

It wouldn't be seen as a healthy thing to such people. What I and the vivisectors would have in common is that we would both be doing legal activities, while other people working outside of the law or working outside of any democratic process would have made the decision based on their personal preferences that they are fine with harassing people outside of their homes.

[beforewisdom]

Freeman Wickland is a former ALF spokesperson. This PDF is on his web site. It is based off of a speech he gave to the United Poulty Concerns in the 1990s. My opinion of the ALF is based strongly off his opinions. People who are for and against the ALF will find his views in this SHORT article interesting

 

http://www.freemanwicklund.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/untold-stories001.pdf

[xjohanx]

thanks for the link. it was interesting to read.

I just want to say that I don't support violence towards butchers, vivesectionists or anyone else for that matter. But I feel that in the article the author refers to smashing computers and destroying property as violence and that's not the correct term for those actions.

[Endy]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

 

Study marketing. It's so much more than just a set of advertisements; marketing has been used to change national perspectives and ways of life. Take the lessons of branding and proliferating a message.

[Endy]

Part of the problem is we also don't have an infrastructure in place to ease the transition to and raise the utility of veganism. Create one.

[beforewisdom]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

 

Study marketing. It's so much more than just a set of advertisements; marketing has been used to change national perspectives and ways of life. Take the lessons of branding and proliferating a message.

 

But studying marketing, doing research, and educating the public isn't cool. It isn't as fun as vandalism and harassment. You don't get to wear a cool mask. You don't get the accolades of your friends for risking arrest while wearing a scary looking get up. You don't get the pleasure of shouting down someone in front of their home.

[Endy]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

 

Study marketing. It's so much more than just a set of advertisements; marketing has been used to change national perspectives and ways of life. Take the lessons of branding and proliferating a message.

 

But studying marketing, doing research, and educating the public isn't cool. It isn't as fun as vandalism and harassment. You don't get to wear a cool mask. You don't get the accolades of your friends for risking arrest while wearing a scary looking get up. You don't get the pleasure of shouting down someone in front of their home.

 

Damn. You're right. Endy needs a good party to get going, and ain't no research a party.