Bigz's Fruitarian/Workout Progress Pics/update

[Im Your Man]

Great post FormicaLinoleum, very good reasonning overall.

I think I'm the one you are reffering as the one who don't accord too much importance to science. I agree that science brings interresting informations about the universe and everything, I myself am addicted to scientific magazines relating all news. But eventhough progress has its good points, we could easily survive without all recent inventions, we could live without all new developments in medecine even if that would mean more people would die, and we don't even need electricity. But many aspects of life are still unknown and science don't seem able to explain some phenomenons unless with very doubtful "scientific" theories like about multiple dimensions (actually there's good evidences for that from quantum physics) when it comes to try to imagine what exactly the many dimensions look like, there's also many other things in the universe we know little about, the complexity of human body and mind included.

I agree that normally 200 calories a day from fruit juice would make someone very very lean, in a pretty short period of time with a high activity level, and after a while the person would be under minimal healthy bodyfat % and losing most of lean mass.

But the body can sometimes adapt to extreme conditions, and every week we hear somewhere in the world about someone who survived to unbelievable things, many notions in science are often redefined after each new discoveries.

So what if the body actually adapts his metabolism to an extremely low calorie diet ( 200 cals and some total fastings), the body wouldn't of course be able to use lots of energy from matter but who knows so much about the human mind and its possibilities ? I myself have often more energy after a nightfast and no breakfast to go run outside. Also, sometimes when I was doing longer fasts I had no more glycogen stored in my muscles, I remember sometimes I felt tired but most of the time I felt like I was propelled by another energy source, motivation, positive thoughts, good vibrations, etc.

 

How does science explains some positive results of experiments on the powers of the mind, like telepathy, telekinesis and self-healing ?

[DV]

How does science explains some positive results of experiments on the powers of the mind, like telepathy, telekinesis and self-healing ?

 

Coincidence.

 

 

Great post FormicaLinoleum.

[Im Your Man]

obviously you haven't seen the videos I've seen of telepathic skills, watched under strict surveillance to prevent any cheating, and repeated far too many times to be coincidences. As for telekinesy and self-healing I don't see how it could be coincidences.

[DV]

You are correct. I have not watched The X-Files.

[Im Your Man]

What do you think movies like The Scanners and the X files tv series are based on ? But actually I was talking about documentaries with real footage, showing experiments conducted by sceptical scientists that were stunned to see the results.

 

Strange you haven't heard about the Stargate Project conducted by the FBI and the CIA for the Pentagon to find persons with special psychic powers and to train them to make extralucid spies for the army or top secret missions. Tests made during 13 years showed 25% results, which is impressive considering the chances of coincidences are almost null). During one of the tests, a medium draw planet Jupiter with a circle on it, before even Nasa's space probe discovered it.

There's many big studies, tests and big projects like these that show mysteries that science is unable to explain but that can't go on forever because it costs a fortune to make. Just Google search the words that I highlighted or on Youtube.

The Rhine Research Center, using "ganzfeld" or whole field methods in tests with a person as the transmitter, watching images on a screen, sending informations by thoughts to another person being the receiver, in another room.

On a total of over 3000 tests of the same kind made by a dozen of different research institutes in the world, results of 33%. Chances that it was pure coincidences: 1 chance on 1 trillion.

Russian Nina Kulagina surprises the world in 1967 when in experiments supervised by scientists she moves under controlled conditions small objects under box of glass by thought. High rise in the intensity of brain activity and heart rate during the tests and even weight loss mesured after each session.

I'm not talking about charlatans like Uri Geller bending stuff, but true psychics like Sean Harribance, visit his website. Succeed to 72 tests out of 93. 1 chance in 40 millions that it's coincidences. Again, high cerebral activity in the Alpha area which should normally be calm.

 

More on this page.

 

 

Dr. Charles Theodore Tart and his #25132 experiment. A woman, called Miss Z. for anonyma claimed she could float over her body during sleep.

From Monday to Wednesday, the projector reported having seen the clock while floating out of body. At the times informed by her, the devices demonstrated unusual brain-wave patterns. An absence of rapid-eye movements (REM) was also observed. On Wednesday night, Miss Z identified the target number: 25132. The brain-wave pattern during conscious projection was different from the patterns during waking state, sleep and other altered states of consciousness (an expression proposed by Tart himself).

 

 

A study by Janet Lee Mitchell (American Society for Psychical Research, ASPR) and Karlis Osis on the traveling clairvoyance of surrealist painter and writer Ingo Swann resulted in 8 of 8 correct target observations with 1 in 40,000 probability for a chance occurrence. When Swann reported his vision was outside of his body, there was loss of electrical activity and faster brain wave impulses in the visual areas in the occipital lobes. During this state, there was great drop in alpha activity in the right hemisphere than the left, which other organic functions remained normal.

[Im Your Man]

What do you think movies like The Scanners and the X files tv series are based on ? But actually I was talking about documentaries with real footage, showing experiments conducted by sceptical scientists that were stunned to see the results.

 

Strange you haven't heard about the Stargate Project conducted by the FBI and the CIA for the Pentagon to find persons with special psychic powers and to train them to make extralucid spies for the army or top secret missions. Tests made during 13 years showed 25% results, which is impressive considering the chances of coincidences are almost null). During one of the tests, a medium draw planet Jupiter with a circle on it, before even Nasa's space probe discovered it.

There's many big studies, tests and big projects like these that show mysteries that science is unable to explain but that can't go on forever because it costs a fortune to make. Just Google search the words that I highlighted or on Youtube.

The Rhine Research Center, using "ganzfeld" or whole field methods in tests with a person as the transmitter, watching images on a screen, sending informations by thoughts to another person being the receiver, in another room.

On a total of over 3000 tests of the same kind made by a dozen of different research institutes in the world, results of 33%. Chances that it was pure coincidences: 1 chance on 1 trillion.

Russian Nina Kulagina surprises the world in 1967 when in experiments supervised by scientists she moves under controlled conditions small objects under box of glass by thought. High rise in the intensity of brain activity and heart rate during the tests and even weight loss mesured after each session.

I'm not talking about charlatans like Uri Geller bending stuff, but true psychics like Sean Harribance, visit his website. Succeed to 72 tests out of 93. 1 chance in 40 millions that it's coincidences. Again, high cerebral activity in the Alpha area which should normally be calm.

 

More on this page.

 

 

Dr. Charles Theodore Tart and his #25132 experiment. A woman, called Miss Z. for anonyma claimed she could float over her body during sleep.

From Monday to Wednesday, the projector reported having seen the clock while floating out of body. At the times informed by her, the devices demonstrated unusual brain-wave patterns. An absence of rapid-eye movements (REM) was also observed. On Wednesday night, Miss Z identified the target number: 25132. The brain-wave pattern during conscious projection was different from the patterns during waking state, sleep and other altered states of consciousness (an expression proposed by Tart himself).

 

 

A study by Janet Lee Mitchell (American Society for Psychical Research, ASPR) and Karlis Osis on the traveling clairvoyance of surrealist painter and writer Ingo Swann resulted in 8 of 8 correct target observations with 1 in 40,000 probability for a chance occurrence. When Swann reported his vision was outside of his body, there was loss of electrical activity and faster brain wave impulses in the visual areas in the occipital lobes. During this state, there was great drop in alpha activity in the right hemisphere than the left, which other organic functions remained normal.

[Raw tennis]

What do you think movies like The Scanners and the X files tv series are based on ? But actually I was talking about documentaries with real footage, showing experiments conducted by sceptical scientists that were stunned to see the results.

 

Strange you haven't heard about the Stargate Project conducted by the FBI and the CIA for the Pentagon to find persons with special psychic powers and to train them to make extralucid spies for the army or top secret missions. Tests made during 13 years showed 25% results, which is impressive considering the chances of coincidences are almost null). During one of the tests, a medium draw planet Jupiter with a circle on it, before even Nasa's space probe discovered it.

There's many big studies, tests and big projects like these that show mysteries that science is unable to explain but that can't go on forever because it costs a fortune to make. Just Google search the words that I highlighted or on Youtube.

The Rhine Research Center, using "ganzfeld" or whole field methods in tests with a person as the transmitter, watching images on a screen, sending informations by thoughts to another person being the receiver, in another room.

On a total of over 3000 tests of the same kind made by a dozen of different research institutes in the world, results of 33%. Chances that it was pure coincidences: 1 chance on 1 trillion.

Russian Nina Kulagina surprises the world in 1967 when in experiments supervised by scientists she moves under controlled conditions small objects under box of glass by thought. High rise in the intensity of brain activity and heart rate during the tests and even weight loss mesured after each session.

I'm not talking about charlatans like Uri Geller bending stuff, but true psychics like Sean Harribance, visit his website. Succeed to 72 tests out of 93. 1 chance in 40 millions that it's coincidences. Again, high cerebral activity in the Alpha area which should normally be calm.

 

More on this page.

 

 

Dr. Charles Theodore Tart and his #25132 experiment. A woman, called Miss Z. for anonyma claimed she could float over her body during sleep.

From Monday to Wednesday, the projector reported having seen the clock while floating out of body. At the times informed by her, the devices demonstrated unusual brain-wave patterns. An absence of rapid-eye movements (REM) was also observed. On Wednesday night, Miss Z identified the target number: 25132. The brain-wave pattern during conscious projection was different from the patterns during waking state, sleep and other altered states of consciousness (an expression proposed by Tart himself).

 

 

A study by Janet Lee Mitchell (American Society for Psychical Research, ASPR) and Karlis Osis on the traveling clairvoyance of surrealist painter and writer Ingo Swann resulted in 8 of 8 correct target observations with 1 in 40,000 probability for a chance occurrence. When Swann reported his vision was outside of his body, there was loss of electrical activity and faster brain wave impulses in the visual areas in the occipital lobes. During this state, there was great drop in alpha activity in the right hemisphere than the left, which other organic functions remained normal.

 

I totally agree, man. There are some things we can not see with our eyes. Doesn't mean they don't exist.

Have you seen the Camelot Project? My favorite is "Boriska's Interview". They've got some fine staff there.

 

Enjoy.

 

PS: I find silly that some people consider telepathy and such a coincidence.

[nobita]

what a b_____

 

seriously, threads of this nature should be deleted or have a big warning.

 

Some kids may believe this b_____ and actually starve to death.

 

Gosh, please!

 

from his site;

 

"it consists mainly of what I call my invisible foods, the sun and fresh air, I get my water from air..."

[Zack]

what a b_____

 

seriously, threads of this nature should be deleted or have a big warning.

 

Some kids may believe this b_____ and actually starve to death.

 

Gosh, please!

 

from his site;

 

"it consists mainly of what I call my invisible foods, the sun and fresh air, I get my water from air..."

 

 

[xjohanx]

I have completely missed this thread and I just read through all the 10 pages.

I don't really know what to write except LAWL

[ISETFIRE]

Hey guys,

 

I think posts/topics like this should in no way be deleted, cause this forum provides the opportunity to discuss things like this and therefore WARN PEOPLE. It's better for people to read things here where critical comments are made, than people going to the actual website which presents the "B______" info in a more or less convincing way.

 

Furthermore, people should be allowed to believe into whatever they want (thelepathy and so on) without being laughed at and disrespected. Just because I don't believe in god I can't go around and laugh at every indivdual who is religious. Well, I could do that but I don't think it's a good way of getting the world closer together...

 

BUT, in my opinion, all posts about thelepathy, religion and whatever should be deleted here or moved to another part of this forum, because it's not in any way nutrition related

[Lena01]

2000 Ig Nobel Prize of Literature - Presented to Jasmuheen (formerly known as Ellen Greve) of Australia, first lady of Breatharianism, for her book Living on Light, which explains that although some people do eat food, they don't ever really need to.

but no, seriously, where did common sense go?

[xjohanx]

b12 is linked to common sense.

[Richard]

BUT, in my opinion, all posts about thelepathy, religion and whatever should be deleted here or moved to another part of this forum, because it's not in any way nutrition related

 

If it happened that a thread was totally derailed off-topic, I'd consider moving the posts around, but I think this topic is still on track basically, even if it's gone a bit wobbly at times. I agree with what you've said totally, I don't think that belittling or laughing at each other is constructive. I find a lot of what has been said to be far-fetched, but I don't see the need for anything but a constructive, logical counter-argument, which has already been presented by many posters.

[Im Your Man]

the reason why there's a post about psychic powers is because I mentionned the point that the body is not the only factor involved in the quality of the assimilation of the nutrients and that the mind is an important factor too. Perhaps that is the case with Bigbwii, his mind allowing "superhuman" physical skills. But someone said that the mind has no power that science can't already explained, so I gave some examples of unsolved mysteries.

 

The body of a person who is always depressed or stressed will not use the calories or assimilate the vitamins the same way that someone who is joyful and happy. The mood during the meal is important too. Anger, or having a negative perception towards food and the act of eating, will not have the same effects on the body than someone with a peaceful mind or with a positive perception of foods.

 

Therefore, the notion of quality outweighs quantity, and it is perhaps possible to achieve results similar or even superior with a tiny amount of food instead of a large. Just a theory. I'm not even saying this concerning Bigbwii, but anybody. Like I said, it is not about believing him or not, but using this example to see what's possible.

 

But concerning the post about telepathy, I don't care if we move it elsewhere or delete it, if it makes a false presumption that Bigbwii has something to do with psychics who can move objects and read people's minds, he probably doesn't want to be associated with these.

[DV]

I am now going to levitate myself right out of this conversation........

Edited September 17, 2008 by DV

[nobita]

I get my protein from stones

 

and actually I spend very little money on food. I go to regular super markets, no health food stores and the like

[Oggy]

Hi new to this forum, this raw section interested me in joining so its a good thing. (well for me anyway)

 

Something that I was thinking when reading this was, why do people that don't eat enough calories put on weight (fat)? I'm sure its due to the body going on starvation mode so why would it be any different to someone that's working out on less than the recommended amount of daily calories? If the body can store fat cells on low calories then it should be able to put on muscle as long as your activating your muscles. In fact the body surely would opt in storing protein in the muscles as this is the body's preferred energy source after glucose.

 

As long as it has enough quality glucose and nutrients then why would one need all these (empty) calories that the body can't use?

 

The liver can only store 75 grams of glucose so as long as you keep this topped up along with vitamins/minerals/micronutrients (I do believe raw food gives more than this) and the 10 essential amino then what else do we need to survive, as long as he's keeping his body in an anabolic state by moving his muscles?

[FormicaLinoleum]

I don't know too much on this topic, so I hope that someone better informed will also respond. But I just wanted to point out a couple of things.

 

When people say "empty calories" they mean calories that are not accompanied by vitamins and minerals. For example, cake could be described as empty calories. However, this does not mean that these "empty" calories are not used by the body just like any other calorie. They are. From Wikipedia: "Empty calories, in casual dietary terminology, are calories present in high-energy foods with poor nutritional profiles, typically from processed carbohydrates or fats. An "empty calorie" has the same energy content of any other calorie but lacks accompanying micronutrients such as vitamins, minerals, or amino acids as well as fiber as found in whole grains but less so in white flour."

 

Your body needs calories (from fat, carbs, and protein) and nutrients. One can't replace the other. For example, I could get all my nutrients through pills, but that wouldn't keep me alive because I would not be taking in any calories. Likewise, if I ate enough calories to fulfill my energy needs but got very little in terms of vitamins or minerals, I would eventually develop deficiencies and have serious health problems.

 

Your body needs calories to function, to do everything it does. Basal metabolic rate is an estimate of the number of calories that one's body needs in a day if one were resting the entire day. Basically it's an estimate of how many calories one's body needs for organs and biological systems to function, with no allowance for physical activity of any sort (even sitting or standing up). A 130-pound woman has a BMR of somewhere around 1200 calories per day. If a 130-pound woman needs 1200 calories just to lie in bed all day, you can understand why people would be skeptical of a larger man working out and maintaining weight on just a few hundred calories a day.

 

Yes, the body can adapt to low calorie intake somewhat by going into starvation mode. When that happens, though, the body actually starts to break down muscle for energy and hold onto fat. So no, going into starvation mode would not explain how someone could be lean and muscular on very few calories. Also, starvation mode starts around when you drop below BMR (or around 1000 - 1200), which is far higher than a few hundred calories a day. That low would be extreme starvation--nowhere near enough to support basic body functions. (Yes, the body can do without food for a while, but it will use fat stores and muscle to provide the energy missing from intake, so one will lose weight while doing it.) I don't know this for sure, but I'm not sure people actually gain weight if they dip into starvation levels while dieting. I think it's more often that their body holds onto their fat stores, so they don't lose weight/fat like they hoped. Then if someone who entered starvation mode started eating normally again, they would gain weight quite quickly.

[Im Your Man]

I like the fact that there's more scientific arguments, good reasonning and voluntarily questioning in this thread, like from Oggy and Formica.

I get my protein from stones

But perhaps Nobita should know that everybody on Earth, humans and non-human animals, not only Bigbwii, we all get our proteins from stones, air and water.

[Oggy]

 

Sorry empty calories was probably the wrong thing to say. The body doesn't need calories it needs glucose to fuel the liver and brain and all the nutrients to form cells (muscle), this is all.

 

Why do humans need to eat calories when humans generate energy/calories from exercise, we need nutrients (amino acids, vitamins, minerals, glucose etc) for fuel and cells, its not the calories that give us energy. Cows eat grass and get massive but there are hardly any calories in grass but yet a stake has lots of calories in it.

 

Multivitamins are useless on there own, synthetic vitamins are a toxin to the body we need the whole complex vitamin from foods not supplements.

[FormicaLinoleum]

A calorie is a unit of energy. It's not a thing that a person or any other being can eat. It's a unit of measurement that is applied to the amount of energy that food provides. When I referred to calories above, it was implied that I was referring to calories of food (carb, fat, protein). I certainly didn't mean to imply that I think that calories are some thing that can be eaten. (I am not sure from your response whether you think they are, or whether you thought I think they are and were trying to correct me.)

 

So yeah, it doesn't make sense to talk about whether or not we need calories in the way you do. And calories don't give us energy--calories ARE energy, or at least a way of measuring energy.

 

We need carbohydrates, fats, and protein. And we need certain vitamins and minerals. (And other substances, like water.) It's just that we need a certain amount of carbohydrates, fats, and proteins to keep our bodies going, provide building material, and so on. And one way we talk about how much of those things we need is by referring to the number of calories of those things we need. So in my original long post every time I refer to needing calories I am referring to needing a certain amount of food as measured in calories.

 

There's little point comparing us to cows or lions. Though I will point out that cows have to eat way more grass than lions need to eat meat. Most animals that eat grass have to spend nearly all of their waking lives eating in order to get enough calories of grass.

[Oggy]

A calorie is a unit of energy. It's not a thing that a person or any other being can eat.

So why do we need to measure calories if we can't eat them, surely the nutrient value is the only thing that counts?

And calories don't give us energy--calories ARE energy,

Why don't we start measuring nutrients instead of calories because from what your saying calories do nothing?

[Richard]

I think you're misunderstanding what a calorie is Oggy. It's a unit of energy, and when you're talking about calories in food, it's the amount of energy you get from that food when you digest it. You need energy for all the parts of your body to function. When people talk about "eating X number of calories" they mean "eating food which will give me X calories of energy once I digest it".

 

Calorie is just a measurement, like a gram or a centimeter. You can't just have "a gram" or "a centimeter". You have to have a measurement of something. So you can have a gram of protein, or a centimeter of carrot. But you can't just eat "a centimeter" as that's a unit of measurement. Similarly, you can't eat a calorie. You eat a food, and it gives however many calories of energy - it's the energy that you need, the calories are a way to measure the amount you get. At least, this is how I understand it.

 

FormicaLinoleum already explained the use of energy, and explained that if you were to just reach your recommended daily allowance of micronutrients, and took in no foods which gave you energy (measured in calories), you would not survive.

 

Nutrients are measured, I'm not sure where you get the impression from that people are not monitoring / measuring the nutrients they take in. To be concerned with energy (calories) does not mean that you're not concerned with other nutrients.

[Oggy]

But how come we don't get energy from empty (or whole) calories, surely then calories are not important. The reason we eat calories from whole foods is for the nutrients not the calories, calories don't build cells nutrients do.

 

I do understand what a calorie is but what I don't understand is the importance of the amount of calories as Formica Linoleum said "calories don't give us energy, they ARE energy". So arguing that calories are needed for muscle growth is completely flawed!

 

Yes calorie is a measurement of energy but there is energy in everything and its the quality of energy that matters not the amount so people need to remember this when someone says they maintain on 800ml of fruit juice, the juice is obviously packed with whole complete nutrients to maintain a body like that. Put it this way there will be FAR more nutrients in 800ml of freshly squeezed fruit juice than say 5 big macs but each big mac has 500 Cal's. Our scientific brains will tell us that a bodybuilder on 2500 Cal's per day could easily maintain (and they would, in a very unhealthy way) but on the 800ml fruit juice diet they somehow would suffer from malnutrition because its only like 400 Cal's. In reality though, the person getting his 2500 Cal's through big macs is the one going to suffer malnutrition and the person drinking 800ml of nutrient dense fruit juice is getting all the glucose and nutrients for optimum cell growth.