Complete proteins

[offense74]

I'm on another, swedish board for training and BB. Almost every thread is in some way related to protein and almost everybody is concerned about complete protein. I thought this was an outdated and meaninless concept? There is no way to get EAA deficiencies from what I understand. I understand the positive sides of gobbling down whey and casein since it will speed up muscle building (because of what it does hormonally to the body, after all it's ment to build cows) but worrying about EAAs?

Any input?

[veganmomma]

I don't have any input, but I have a comment. I thought discussions about complete protiens were outdated from the the 1970's or 80's.

[Fallen_Horse]

Someone who eats only bread will eventually die from lack of complete proteins.

 

 

It's not an outdated concept in any way. Protein COMBINING is an outdated concept...

[Jason]

Someone who eats only bread will eventually die from lack of complete proteins.

 

 

It's not an outdated concept in any way. Protein COMBINING is an outdated concept...

 

Someone would need to eat only bread for a very long time to develop a protein deficiency.

You would most likely get sick or develop some other deficiency first.

[offense74]

Someone who eats only bread will eventually die from lack of complete proteins.

No.

All the EAA's are there in large enough amounts. If you only eat bread you will die of some kind of deficiency but not from any EAA.

Look it up on nutritiondata!

[Im Your Man]

There's some nations, sects and religious groups that eat a strict macro diet consisting of only grains, like monks in certain monasteries eating only a bowl of white rice per day. They're not as strong as Ronnie Coleman but they're not dying. They even do a celebration once a year where they dance for 24 hours in a row.

[veganmomma]

I deleted my post because I felt it was to arguementative.

 

August 26, 2008 5:27 am EST

Edited August 26, 2008 by veganmomma

[beforewisdom]

Below are some old notes from my hard drive.

 

It was never the case that anyone said that complementing amino acids was unnecessary. It was only unnecessary to do so at every single meal. The rule of thumb is that if you are eating good food and maintaining a healthy lean weight ( not fat ) that you are getting enough protien. "Enough" is not the same as optimal.

 

The coauthors of Becoming Vegan say as much and they are also two of the coauthors of the ADA Position Paper On Vegetarianism.

 

Your body needs 9 essential amino acids. It has a capacity for making do if it is not getting all 9 in perfect blends all of the time, but like everything else in life that has limits. If you don't compliment at every single meal, but eat good food you probably don't have much to worry about.

 

However, if you don't enough legume derived foods or other concentrated protein sources......living off just grain, bread etc.....you might not be doing as well as you could be doing.

 

Vegan complete protein combinations:

 

1. Legumes + WHOLE grains

2. Legumes + seeds

 

 

 

Protein combining is not necessary at every meal,

but it is necessary at some point in a day:

 

From

The American Dietetic Association

Position Paper On Vegetarianism

http://www.eatright.org/Public/GovernmentAffairs/92_17084.cfm

 

"Plant protein can meet requirements when a variety of plant

foods is consumed and energy needs are met. Research indicates

that an assortment of plant foods EATEN OVER THE COURSE OF A

DAY can provide all essential amino acids and ensure adequate

nitrogen retention and use in healthy adults, thus

COMPLEMENTARY PROTEINS DO NOT NEED TO BE CONSUMED AT THE

SAME MEAL."

 

( emphasis in upper case mine )

 

 

THE NEW BECOMING VEGETARIAN

ISBN 1-57067-144-3, pages 52 - 55

by

Brenda Davis, Registered Dietician ( vegan ) &

Vesanto Melina, Registered Dietician ( vegan )

( these authors also cowrote the ADA paper quoted above )

 

 

 

- recommended daily intakes for protein are based on the assumption that

adequate calories to maintain body weight are being taken in.

 

- the US RDA for protein is 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight

( divide your weight in pounds by 2.2 to get your weight in kilograms).

there is no RDA for athletes.

 

- the US RDA should be increased by 15 - 20%, for people over 6 years of age,

if the proteins used are uncomplemented.

[Fallen_Horse]

Protein combining is not necessary at every meal,

but it is necessary at some point in a day:

 

From

The American Dietetic Association

Position Paper On Vegetarianism

http://www.eatright.org/Public/GovernmentAffairs/92_17084.cfm

 

"Plant protein can meet requirements when a variety of plant

foods is consumed and energy needs are met. Research indicates

that an assortment of plant foods EATEN OVER THE COURSE OF A

DAY can provide all essential amino acids and ensure adequate

nitrogen retention and use in healthy adults, thus

COMPLEMENTARY PROTEINS DO NOT NEED TO BE CONSUMED AT THE

SAME MEAL."

 

( emphasis in upper case mine )

 

 

THE NEW BECOMING VEGETARIAN

ISBN 1-57067-144-3, pages 52 - 55

by

Brenda Davis, Registered Dietician ( vegan ) &

Vesanto Melina, Registered Dietician ( vegan )

( these authors also cowrote the ADA paper quoted above )

 

 

 

- recommended daily intakes for protein are based on the assumption that

adequate calories to maintain body weight are being taken in.

 

- the US RDA for protein is 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight

( divide your weight in pounds by 2.2 to get your weight in kilograms).

there is no RDA for athletes.

 

- the US RDA should be increased by 15 - 20%, for people over 6 years of age,

if the proteins used are uncomplemented.

This is exactly what I am referring to. Without having a compliment to bread, eventually the body will develop a problem...

 

Basically I was replying to the OP that complete/incomplete proteins aren't a myth, they are a proven fact and they definitely do exist.

[Vegan Joe]

This is exactly what I am referring to. Without having a compliment to bread, eventually the body will develop a problem...

 

Basically I was replying to the OP that complete/incomplete proteins aren't a myth, they are a proven fact and they definitely do exist.

The same thing could be said about eating nothing but rabbit. Eventually some imbalance will occur followed by disease.

Am I missing the point?

[Jason]

I thought this was an outdated and meaninless concept? There is no way to get EAA deficiencies from what I understand.

You are correct Offense

 

It is all but impossible to be protein deficient if consuming adequate calories.

If someone ate a diet of only a few different plants, then maybe.

Nobody eats such a limited diet that they would ever need to worry about complimenting amino acids.

 

If somebody thinks it is possible, design a protein deficient diet.

Not a diet of only one food, but a variety of plant foods.

It can't be done.

[DV]

If you ate the minimal amount of protein intake each day and you ate a source that was low (not absent) a particular amino acid, then you would develop a deficiency in that particular amino acid. If you believe that the Limiting Amino Acid theory has any merit, all you need to do is eat enough bread to reach the daily minimum of lysine and you'll be fine. Even wheat is not a incomplete protein, it's just lower in lysine than the other essential amino acids.

 

If you are on a low protein diet then it's probably best to complement a large intake of bread with a food group that is higher in lysine. If your protein intake is relatively high (like most westerners) then you probably have nothing to worry about unless you have a metabolic problem (and you would have known about this in childhood).

 

There is a huge misunderstanding by most people that plant foods are incomplete proteins (ie, missing some essential amino acid). The truth of the matter is that most plant foods are high in some amino acids and low in some - but contain all the essential amino acids, for the most part.

[liftandcode]

If you ate the minimal amount of protein intake each day and you ate a source that was low (not absent) a particular amino acid, then you would develop a deficiency in that particular amino acid. If you believe that the Limiting Amino Acid theory has any merit, all you need to do is eat enough bread to reach the daily minimum of lysine and you'll be fine. Even wheat is not a incomplete protein, it's just lower in lysine than the other essential amino acids.

 

If you are on a low protein diet then it's probably best to complement a large intake of bread with a food group that is higher in lysine. If your protein intake is relatively high (like most westerners) then you probably have nothing to worry about unless you have a metabolic problem (and you would have known about this in childhood).

 

There is a huge misunderstanding by most people that plant foods are incomplete proteins (ie, missing some essential amino acid). The truth of the matter is that most plant foods are high in some amino acids and low in some - but contain all the essential amino acids, for the most part.

 

Awesome answer DV. I've just realized how many sources of protein are actually short in Lysine. Although, like you and others said, as long as you eat a wide variety of food you should be fine.

[beforewisdom]

My diet is mostly 3 meals a day where each meal is built around a 50/50 mix of legumes and whole grains. Since legumes have much more protein then equal portions of whole grains I use a protein ( 1 a day ) drink where the protein is derived from brown rice.

 

I'm not an expert, I don't know if this is necessary, but I do this with the thought to boost the amount of amino acids that whole grains are good for. The thinking being that not only will I get a total protein boost, but that the protein I get from my legumes will be complemented from the supplement as well.