What about Small farms? Shouldn't we eat eggs if they don't

[RAINRA]

My family keeps trying to push this ... what if I eat eggs from a small farm where there is no suffering and the chicken runs around freely... there are some around... the eggs would just go to waste and rot.

 

Why do you have to be so restrictive? Why can't you eat some non vegan food if it means that I cook a special dinner for a special occasion and it really matters to someone. what are your answers for these questions?

 

I know what I say but trying to hear what others have done or would say

[GinaKina]

Because eggs are the byproduct of a hen's menstrual cycle. That's just gross.

 

I'm a big fan of Colleen Patrick-Goudreau's podcast, and one of her episodes I listened to yesterday talks about this. Her opinion was pretty much the same. Okay, well if they're really REALLY being raised humanely, then I guess I don't oppose people eating them. But...I never would, even knowing that. I know what it IS and its gross. Plus, very few hens are actually raised with this purpose. Most hens, even if they claim to be "humanely raised", aren't.

[Guest]

following is a standard definition of *egg*:

 

a. A female gamete; an ovum. Also called egg cell.

b. The round or oval female reproductive body of various animals, including birds, reptiles, amphibians, fishes, and insects, consisting usually of an embryo surrounded by nutrient material and a protective covering.

c. The oval, thin-shelled reproductive body of a bird, especially that of a hen, used as food.

 

... i'll pass.

[Im Your Man]

why the hell would I eat this gelatinous substance, this slimy and sticky mass of fats and cholesterol? I've forced myself to eat it too many times, just because everybody else was doing it. Almost everybody is reluctant to eggs; they add salt, pepper, ketchup on their omelettes, with bread. And those who are brave enough to swallow raw whole eggs, this is ing. People use mostly eggs in recipes, when other things could replace perfectly: avocado, banana, tofu, arrow-root, etc... It's like those people eating whole oysters, they don't even know that they're eating the oyster's shit at the same time.

[Im Your Man]

the eggs would just go to waste and rot.

if people think like this, I don't have a lot of hope for the future of mankind. If people think that life is a waste and something that rots. Those eggs would become life, not rot. Or they wouldn't exist, without those "small" farms.

[RAINRA]

My point of view is that animals are not products or product producers. So just in that concept I refuse to use any animal as a product in anyway. Well treated or not. Plus eggs got lot of cholesterol which no one needs.

 

I don't care which family member I offend or culture for not eating animal products no matter what the occasion. They are offending me by asking me to take part in it. So it goes both ways.

[auburnoutlook]

saying no thanks with a smile has always worked for me.

 

 

i personally no longer enjoy the taste or cosistency of eggs or milk. i lived on a small farm in virgina with cows and chickens. they were all treated like family members. most people on the farm were vegetarian and many vegan. im just rambling now.

 

anyway, so cows need to be milked, hens lay eggs with or without mating. if there isnt a rooster around than the hen will lay unfertilized eggs. so hens lay eggs no matter what. technically speaking those unfertilized eggs will never become chickens and are basically the hens menstrual cycle. im a vegetarian because i hate the thought of hurting another creature. im vegan cuz the dairy industry is cruel and promotes slavery and after this long i always felt sick digesting it anyway.

 

i say using those unfertilized eggs if you want, even the milk(it hurts the cows if you dont milk them) isnt awful at all. i remember when we would just dump out milk and trash eggs because no one was around that drank it or ate them. i dont see that as wasting it since the cows and chickens makes it reguardless and we really had no other option, but alot of people turned it down despite their watering mouths and capable digestive systems. its your body and it does no harm to anyone else. why deprive yourself if you obviously want it( "you" as in the type of people im talking about, not those posting in this forum)? i just dont get it.

 

vegan should be a term you define for yourself

[Richard]

Even on a "small farm", what happens to the male chicks?

[blabbate]

the eggs would just go to waste and rot.

if people think like this, I don't have a lot of hope for the future of mankind. If people think that life is a waste and something that rots. Those eggs would become life, not rot. Or they wouldn't exist, without those "small" farms.

What? Not all of them would become life. Hens don't reproduce asexually, as cool as that would be. The unfertilized eggs, which the hen will lay regardless, will simply rot.

[Richard]

It's the same as women having a period each month, that will not turn into a baby, even if you put it in a jar and keep it on the window sill.

[blabbate]

following is a standard definition of *egg*:

 

a. A female gamete; an ovum. Also called egg cell.

b. The round or oval female reproductive body of various animals, including birds, reptiles, amphibians, fishes, and insects, consisting usually of an embryo surrounded by nutrient material and a protective covering.

c. The oval, thin-shelled reproductive body of a bird, especially that of a hen, used as food.

 

... i'll pass.

Following is a standard definition of *seed*:

(1): the grains or ripened ovules of plants used for sowing

(2): the fertilized ripened ovule of a flowering plant containing an embryo and capable normally of germination to produce a new plant ; broadly : a propagative plant structure (as a spore or small dry fruit)

 

Seeds, beans, nuts, fruits, grains, all used for reproduction. They contain embryonic material and nutrients. The only difference between them and what we traditionally think of as "eggs" is that the eggs come from animals. There's nothing inherent to them regarding reproductive function that isn't also associated with plenty of vegan foods.

[auburnoutlook]

before i lived there, alot of non vegans raised chickens to make eggs. when i moved there we created two large open areas. one with two hens and a rooster so we got some baby chicks and all the chickens(like seven) from before were in a separate area. we would let them loose during the day but always keep the groups separate.so only two hens ever laid eggs that turned into chickens and even then it wasnt many. see its hard because you dont want a million chickens running around because it is expensive so we tried to keep the population low by just not allowing them to mate. some farms you can trust. in these situations trust is dependent on knowledge. the animals died of old age like anyone else and wer treated like family.

[Crystal]

Does your family have much experience with "small farms" and hens? You can tell them that on vegan farm animal sanctuaries, the chickens eat the eggs. Have you ever broken an egg in front of a chicken? They go wild and will compete for this treat! It may seem odd to us, but they LOVE eggs and it makes sense. It takes a lot of nutrients and energy to produce an egg so if the opportunity arises to replace some of these nutrients it makes sense in a survival sort of context to make good use of it. Sorry, kind of a tangent there. . .

 

Anyway, to further Richards point, ask your family if they know what happens to hens when they age and stop producing. Its not like they are "put out to pasture"!

 

If the eggs are collected for any kind of profit, then suddenly the hen's life has a price on it and for any business to succeed, this profit margin needs to be kept in the positive and then it becomes an animal welfare issue instead of animal rights.

 

The "gross" factor doesn't seem like a good argument to me because clearly that will be worse for us those who eat eggs.

[auburnoutlook]

we put them out to pasture...basically. but i know we were a rare exception.

 

knowledge is priceless. get to know your local farmers.

[blabbate]

To get back to the original question.

My family keeps trying to push this ... what if I eat eggs from a small farm where there is no suffering and the chicken runs around freely... there are some around... the eggs would just go to waste and rot.

Well, those farms are mostly fictional, so it's a bit of a dishonest question. It's virtually impossible to find a farm where the chickens don't suffer at all, ever, due to their confinement. But even if you did find one, Crystal made a fantastic point below that once you purchase the eggs, you've turned the hen into a product. Even if that individual farm doesn't harm the animals, others will as long as there's a profit to be made.

 

Why do you have to be so restrictive? Why can't you eat some non vegan food if it means that I cook a special dinner for a special occasion and it really matters to someone. what are your answers for these questions?

I would wonder why it bothers them so much. As long as you're participating in the occasion, I don't understand why the food is such a big deal. It's what you believe, and it doesn't harm them. The most you can do is apologize and explain that it's simply a matter of choice and personal principles.

 

My family goes out of their way to cook for me, but when I first told my mom, she did poke fun at me a bit, asking, "Do you blame us? Is it because of something we did?"

[auburnoutlook]

the chicken is only a product if treat them like one. i KNOW of farms all over the country that were just like mine. they are rare but not as rare as you might think.

 

are you sending the message to your family that food looks tasty but you dont want it because your vegan? that can be confusing. it would be confusing to me, and im vegan.

[RAINRA]

No I am not interested in what they are cooking at all. My mom cooks on holidays since we all live like 3000 miles from each other. So when the holidays come around she likes to cook for everyone. Now that I am vegan it makes it tough for her to please everyone with one meal ... I so called complicated things. So she was trying to see I would just break my veganism for those occasions and I responded to her it is not a turn on turn off thing. I really disagree with the way animals are treated. I make no exception. It is just so wrong I told her. It is just tough for her to see how I can be so stubborn when it comes to this or so I think she thinks I am being.

[auburnoutlook]

telling her that you disagree with the way animals are treated doesnt really have anything to do with cruelty free dairy meals. if i understand correctly she is offering to make food that is vegetarian and uses dairy that is totally harm free. if you dont LIKE dairy foods than that is what you need to express to her. then what you need to say is that you dont enjoy the taste of dairy products any longer and would be happy to just eat the veggies. did you try sending her recipes?

i bet she could make like at least five dishes vegan and no one would know. stuffing with vegan sausage is amazing.

[RAINRA]

yeah well she lives in Russia. My bros and sis live in Spain. I live here. We get together on the holidays. She would cook a lot of meals when I go over to visit. The whole family would gather around food. Now I am the only one who will not eat what she is offering.

 

The egg issue was a tottaly different question than her preparing meals. She has no access to farms like yours she is just stating in theory.

 

So now when we get together we will have to cook different meals. My fam still want to eat what they eat cheese lasagna, turkey stuffing and mash potatoes, spanish ham, Manchgo cheese... these are some of the things they love to eat. Spanish Culture is so wrapped around these foods (except the turkey and mash potatos) for festive occasions that I look like a real outsider not eating them. Vegan recipes I really don't think they would want as substitutes.

[auburnoutlook]

my super cool aunt switched out their traditional stuffing for a vegan kind and only told me. no one knew! and i ate veggies and salad. ive been a veggie for so long im used not eating like noraml people. being a trainer as well i eat like every three hours so i brought a snack to thanksgiving and when dinner came around just ate veggies and the amazing stuffing. they would joke with me and as kindly as i could i would point out my physique versus their lack of. i was always nice about it but it sure shut them up. my family used to give me so much shit and now they asks for pointers.i always say "go vegan! and hit the gym" good luck. i hope you are able to find a happy ground to stand on.

[michaelhobson]

i say using those unfertilized eggs if you want, even the milk(it hurts the cows if you dont milk them) isnt awful at all. i remember when we would just dump out milk and trash eggs because no one was around that drank it or ate them. i dont see that as wasting it since the cows and chickens makes it reguardless

 

Unless you stop breeding cows, then there is no milk.

[Vegan Joe]

I suppose you are a problem. You see you remind everyone there, about the meat they are eating. Which by the way is a good thing, as long as your message doesn't turn them off. Your Mom want everything to go well and with the possibilty that the thought of dead animals can make people loose their appetite. Interesting how she would ask you to go against your beliefs and convictions. I'm sure deep down she is proud that you stand up for your beliefs. Watching you grow she has seen you go through many phases so she is just trying to hurry this phase along. Love her no matter what. Insure her that she needn't go out of her way, and bring the dessert.

[auburnoutlook]

i say using those unfertilized eggs if you want, even the milk(it hurts the cows if you dont milk them) isnt awful at all. i remember when we would just dump out milk and trash eggs because no one was around that drank it or ate them. i dont see that as wasting it since the cows and chickens makes it reguardless

 

Unless you stop breeding cows, then there is no milk.

 

 

we didnt breed the cows, they made love because they wanted too.....our farm was very romantic.

[Mik]

My family keeps trying to push this ... what if I eat eggs from a small farm where there is no suffering and the chicken runs around freely... there are some around... the eggs would just go to waste and rot.

 

Why do you have to be so restrictive? Why can't you eat some non vegan food if it means that I cook a special dinner for a special occasion and it really matters to someone. what are your answers for these questions?

 

I know what I say but trying to hear what others have done or would say

this applies to hardly any eggs anyway, even free range egg laying hens are farmed pretty intensively even though when you look at the boxes they always try to give the impesssion that they're from cute little country farms, sometiems you see a Mr and Mrs Jenks or whatever on the front saying 'we raise our animals to the finest quality blah blah blah,' and maybe in some cases it could be true but they'd do it whether it was or wasnt so I'd prefer to take the route that definately is cruelty free.

[Guest]

following is a standard definition of *egg*:

 

a. A female gamete; an ovum. Also called egg cell.

b. The round or oval female reproductive body of various animals, including birds, reptiles, amphibians, fishes, and insects, consisting usually of an embryo surrounded by nutrient material and a protective covering.

c. The oval, thin-shelled reproductive body of a bird, especially that of a hen, used as food.

 

... i'll pass.

Following is a standard definition of *seed*:

(1): the grains or ripened ovules of plants used for sowing

(2): the fertilized ripened ovule of a flowering plant containing an embryo and capable normally of germination to produce a new plant ; broadly : a propagative plant structure (as a spore or small dry fruit)

 

Seeds, beans, nuts, fruits, grains, all used for reproduction. They contain embryonic material and nutrients. The only difference between them and what we traditionally think of as "eggs" is that the eggs come from animals. There's nothing inherent to them regarding reproductive function that isn't also associated with plenty of vegan foods.

 

a vegan does not sustain off of animal products ... are you suggesting we do not eat plant based seeds? guess we can all aim for breatharian.