How to get enough protein

[Couture547]

And i've all ready shown that you can get more then enough protein on a cooked vegan diet without supplement. A diet of 20 percent protein works for anyonw. 8K calories= 400 grams of protein, 4K calories= 200 grams of protein, 2K calories= 100 grams of protein. 1,500 calories= 75 grams of protein. Any thing less then that for anyone and your just starving yourself and not building mass on matter how much protein.

 

Even Omni guys will say that the most the body could ever use at one time is around 40 grams of protein and that's a absolute max. Any thing more then that and your wasting your time. Just think if your eatting 20 percent protein you fall right where you need to be. Not to little and not too much, but just right

Except that you have several people in this thread for whom 20% protein was not enough. They tried it. It didn't work. They upped their protein intake and started gaining mass. That's not to say that everyone is going to have the same experience, and it's just anecdotal evidence, but any evidence at all is enough to bust your unsubstantiated claim that 20% is enough for "anyone."

 

Once again, I'm simply arguing against blanket statements. It seems foolish to me to say "x is always true" when you can just click back a page or two and read multiple people posting "I personally tried x and it did not work for me."

 

Ive said nurmerious times If your undereatting carbs then your bodies protein needs are alot more. So the question is how much were they eatting before? And what was the source of this protein? I'm blown away by the amount of processed soy i see people on here eatting

[DV]

She said 20 pounds of muscle, so that can mean more then 20 total with water and fat, but still at least 20 in muscle. If one gains 20 pounds and half of it is muscle then you gained 10 pounds of muscle

 

For god's sake, already! I've had a NET gain of 20 lbs of lean (non-fat, ie, muscle) mass and a NET loss of over 10 lbs of fat. This takes into consideration the wide (up to 3 lbs) water weight fluctuations I can have at different times due to hormones (menstruation) and/or sodium intake.

[Couture547]

She said 20 pounds of muscle, so that can mean more then 20 total with water and fat, but still at least 20 in muscle. If one gains 20 pounds and half of it is muscle then you gained 10 pounds of muscle

 

For god's sake, already! I've had a NET gain of 20 lbs of lean (non-fat, ie, muscle) mass and a NET loss of over 10 lbs of fat. This takes into consideration the wide (up to 3 lbs) water weight fluctuations I can have at different times due to hormones (menstruation) and/or sodium intake.

 

I'm very aware that's what you said, i was repling to someone else

[FormicaLinoleum]

She said 20 pounds of muscle, so that can mean more then 20 total with water and fat, but still at least 20 in muscle. If one gains 20 pounds and half of it is muscle then you gained 10 pounds of muscle

Well, if you acknowledge that she gained fat along with her muscle, then why did you ask for someone to show you someone who gained 20 lbs of muscle but no fat or water?? Did you just word that poorly?

[Couture547]

No i worded it right. I said show me a forty something natural woman that put on 20 pounds of lean muscle. I don't care how much fat one puts on or water on top of the 20 pounds of muscle. Imagine how easy a 20 year old man could become a top natural bb if a forty year old woman can add that kind of muscle

[beforewisdom]

Do you mean you want to hear about an example of a person who put on 20 lbs of muscle without putting on some fat at the same time?

 

If so, it just doesn't work like that most of the time with significant (small, yes ) gains in muscle.

 

Anybody who has had a trainer or even just read books on bodybuilding or even bodybuilding magazines knows that.

[Couture547]

no i don't really care about that as long as one put on at least what they said in lean muscle. For example if one gained 40 pounds with 20 of that lean muscle and the other water and fat then that was a 20 pound gain of lean mass. I just know to many people and i was one of them that lifts hard eats huge and takes alot of supplements and thinks most or all the mass gained was lean muscle. when in fact most of the weight gained was water/ fat/ extra food weight/ bloat.

[FormicaLinoleum]

No i worded it right. I said show me a forty something natural woman that put on 20 pounds of lean muscle. I don't care how much fat one puts on or water on top of the 20 pounds of muscle. Imagine how easy a 20 year old man could become a top natural bb if a forty year old woman can add that kind of muscle

What was the bolded part supposed to mean, then?

And as far as the BB and lifter doing it since the 60's show me one person that put on 20 pounds of lean muscle(no fat or water) in a one year period without drugs. Then if you can find that show me one a 40 year old woman.

I don't follow bodybuilding at all, so I'm not the one to start giving examples. But DV and SydneyVegan both said they have put on that much or more. From reading this board and Vegan Fitness I read about people gaining a lot of weight all the time, so I don't see any reason to doubt DV. From the Team 200 blog, it seems Troy gained 15 lbs in 5 months. I know not all of it would be muscle, but knowing him, I'm sure much of it is.

 

You are saying that DV and SydneyVegan are outright lying to us. That's a really serious claim and I don't see that you have much ground not to believe them. Beginners can make a lot of progress in a year. Eventually, most people plateau and then have a really hard time adding additional weight/muscle, but until someone reaches that plateau for their body, they can make pretty good progress when first starting lifting. The problem is that those beginning gains can't go on forever. But at the beginning, someone new to lifting could most likely put on 20+ lbs of muscle and a year seems long enough to do so.

[DV]

And that describes my gains precisely, FormicaLinoleum (which is a great name, by the way). I started out skinny fat - 5'10" in the 140s lb range with almost 30% bodyfat. I had 102-106 lbs of lean mass on me. I was recently around 160 lbs at 18% bodyfat and a lean mass of about 126-130 lbs. I purposefully give ranges to indicate that water weight can change. If measurements are taken under the same circumstances (near empty GI tract, same trainer, before workout, no change in regular diet the days before) then you'll get the most accurate results.

 

But the real proof is in how you look and how your clothes fit. Pictures are only worth so much and I'm of a generation that shies away from posting our bodies on the internet, so there will be no before and after shots here. You only get to see them when I compete! The people who know me well are impressed with the muscle I've put on and my shirts/blouses/jackets especially have mostly been given away as there is no chance my shoulders and upper back will ever get into them again, regardless of how much body fat I trim.

 

I started a training journal in the past to inspire older women to consider bodybuilding because if I could do it then anyone can, as I've NEVER been athletic. A woman shorter than 5'10" or one with a fairly muscled body might not see the same results as myself in a year. I'm sure the next 20 lbs of muscle will take me more than a year to gain, if I choose to get bigger. At the very least, I'm looking to add another 10 lbs of muscle in 2009 and have no doubt that it will be attainable - at my advanced age of 43.

[Couture547]

I don't think anyone is lying about what they think they gained weather they gained every bit of what they think is different. If your getting that good of results i say go with it and go with it with a large smile on your face at all times becasue people risk they health and lively hood using roids to get those kind of results

[beforewisdom]

No way to say this without being insulting, but I think with the off the wall, baseless ideas you've posted to this forum and the fact that you argue with people who know what they are talking about when you clearly do not......you are the last person to make statements about how people have mistaken impressions of what they accomplished.

 

BTW are you "mountain vegan" from the veganrepresent board? You have a similar alias and style.

[Zack]

No i worded it right. I said show me a forty something natural woman that put on 20 pounds of lean muscle. I don't care how much fat one puts on or water on top of the 20 pounds of muscle. Imagine how easy a 20 year old man could become a top natural bb if a forty year old woman can add that kind of muscle

 

You jealous brah?

[Couture547]

Who wouldn't be jealous? If a 43 year old woman can gain 20 pounds of real muscle in a year then i need to train under her and you should too brah. I'd be a natual Arnold in 3 years and then work my way up to Coleman

[Zack]

Who wouldn't be jealous? If a 43 year old woman can gain 20 pounds of real muscle in a year then i need to train under her and you should too brah. I'd be a natual Arnold in 3 years and then work my way up to Coleman

 

I did the same as her in the same amount of time while only training for 1 year. The extra time I was just eating more..

 

xveganjoshx put on about 30 or so of muscle in somewhere around a year.

 

You're male, get your diet and training right and make some progress. Don't insult someone successful and accuse her of not being natural.

 

Maybe if you weren't into the wacky raw things you'd have the results she does.

 

As far as getting like Arnold or Coleman, stop kidding around. DV is relatively new to the lifting thing. When you're new, gains come fast and taper down over time.

[Couture547]

Never once said she wasn't natural. And your nothing to ride home about. As far as me I'm pretty strong and getting stronger by the day, but i'm realistic about the size i gain. Since you down talk a raw food diet then you should be much stronger then me considering you were on a superior diet and i was on this so called crap diet where everyone is is small and weak. Let me ask anyone that claims they gained 20 plus pounds. How did your lifts improve? adding 20 pounds of muscle to a woman would pretty much double every lift minimum

[thendanisays]

Never once said she wasn't natural. And your nothing to ride home about. As far as me I'm pretty strong and getting stronger by the day, but i'm realistic about the size i gain. Since you down talk a raw food diet then you should be much stronger then me considering you were on a superior diet and i was on this so called crap diet where everyone is is small and weak. Let me ask anyone that claims they gained 20 plus pounds. How did your lifts improve? adding 20 pounds of muscle to a woman would pretty much double every lift minimum

 

 

maybe you should go check out DVs training journal. ive actually trained with her and its no joke. She is DIESEL! She lifts more than a lot of men that i know. I'm talking-she doesnt even touch a dumbell below thirty....ever and it is my understanding that she gets her bf tested very frequently and has consistantly for more than a year....so.....yeah...there's THAT.

 

 

....or you could just brawl it out. i bet you'd think she gained 20 pounds of muscle then.

[Couture547]

Never once said she wasn't natural. And your nothing to ride home about. As far as me I'm pretty strong and getting stronger by the day, but i'm realistic about the size i gain. Since you down talk a raw food diet then you should be much stronger then me considering you were on a superior diet and i was on this so called crap diet where everyone is is small and weak. Let me ask anyone that claims they gained 20 plus pounds. How did your lifts improve? adding 20 pounds of muscle to a woman would pretty much double every lift minimum

 

 

maybe you should go check out DVs training journal. ive actually trained with her and its no joke. She is DIESEL! She lifts more than a lot of men that i know. I'm talking-she doesnt even touch a dumbell below thirty....ever and it is my understanding that she gets her bf tested very frequently and has consistantly for more than a year....so.....yeah...there's THAT.

 

 

....or you could just brawl it out. i bet you'd think she gained 20 pounds of muscle then.

 

 

She looks pretty good in the little pics i've seen, so i bet she is strong. 5'10'' 165 is about average for a non fat man at that height. most men don't do much for strength work so it wouldn't be surprised if she's stronger then alot of men

[DaN]

I'm talking-she doesnt even touch a dumbell below thirty....ever

 

Are you saying DV can bicep curl 30 kilos? Or are you talking about pounds?

 

I am a male, 6ft & near 15 stone.And a I am using just under 30 kilos on my biceps.

 

[Zack]

She means pounds dan.

[beforewisdom]

Who wouldn't be jealous? If a 43 year old woman can gain 20 pounds of real muscle in a year then i need to train under her and you should too brah. I'd be a natual Arnold in 3 years and then work my way up to Coleman

 

Not if, she did do it. If you pulled your head out of your ass and followed advice there is actually evidence for instead of clinging to dietary fetishes spawn out of the creative fiction writing of raw food authors you could get those same results too.

[blabbate]

Who wouldn't be jealous? If a 43 year old woman can gain 20 pounds of real muscle in a year then i need to train under her and you should too brah. I'd be a natual Arnold in 3 years and then work my way up to Coleman

Did you just say "brah?" Stop that.

[Gaia]

Sorry to say, but genetics plays a big part in all of this. It is when you get to your genetic potential, and plateau, that the extra becomes really important (supplements, complicated workouts, cycling calories, etc.). Of course most of us don't wait till that long, and we do it as we go along. Thus we have no base standard to see if something is working for us or not. And the human metabolism is always changing too, so what worked before may now be homeostasis, and we have to push the genetic potential another way (such as back off, and try again: cycling).

[DaN]

She means pounds dan.

 

 

Otherwise thats one strong woman!

 

[beforewisdom]

She means pounds dan.

 

 

Otherwise thats one strong woman!

 

 

She still is.

[FormicaLinoleum]

Who wouldn't be jealous? If a 43 year old woman can gain 20 pounds of real muscle in a year then i need to train under her and you should too brah. I'd be a natual Arnold in 3 years and then work my way up to Coleman

Just because she gained 20 lbs of muscle in her first year does not mean that she could keep doing so until she was as big as a steriod-user. I already pointed this out. People make fast gains at the beginning, then their gains slow and plateau. Even if a natural builder can make fast progress at first, his/her body will plateau before he/she gets as big as a roid-user can.