MSG IN VEG FOOD ...

[RAINRA]

http://www.naturalnews.com/001528.html

[tuc]

Here is all you need to know about MSG: http://www.food-info.net/uk/intol/msg.htm

 

- Zero scientific studies have found it causing negative side effects

- Loads of stuff contain MSG naturally

- There's loads of it in our body

- It makes stuff taste better with less natrium than with normal salt

 

Wikipedia tells that:

 

"The INTERMAP Cooperative Research Group conducted a study of 752 healthy Chinese (48.7% women), aged 40-59 years, randomly sampled from three rural villages in north and south China and determined that MSG intake may be positively related to increased BMI (Body Mass Index)."

 

Bring it on, more BMI the better, for me at least!

[hilary wright]

I've been eating lots of MSG for about 45 years (not deliberately, but it is heavily used in Chinese food). I'll keep you posted if I develope any health problems when I get older.

[Im Your Man]

Of course it's not healthy! No need to wait for a study to prove it. And waiting -or not - for a study to prove it's safe is stupid - or risky. There's been tons of scientific studies who claim MSG is harmful, and it's easy to say they're all worthless, because there's no flawless studies. Why would MSG be safe? Because some seaweeds or other stuff contain MSG naturally ? This doesn't prove eating the seaweed in question is very healthy, and even if it was, there's a difference between eating foods which contain MSG naturally, and eating a concentration of MSG that has been isolated from a product ! Even if there was a flawless study (and this cannot exist) proving the safety of MSG, how could you possibly tell the effects it has when combined with this other substance, and that one, etc, since there's hundreds and hundreds of substances so an almost infinite number of combinations. "MSG intake may be positively related to increased BMI (Body Mass Index)", it's surely not a good thing !...and if you want that effect, take hGH... you should ask yourself, how a calorie free substance can increase BMI ! Playing with the endocrine system and hormones is playing with fire.

 

All the chemicals that are in circulation now have been aproved to be safe by the companies who produced them and sell them, and the FDA don't really care if the tests and studies worth something. And then, what do we observe in our water? That little frogs which live in water polluted by those "safe" chemicals became hermaphrodites or that the males became infertile, or had too tiny sexual organs, because they lived in that toxic cocktail. So now we find plenty of hermaphrodite crocodiles and hermaphrodite gulls. Since several years we notice that all the chemicals they add to food for flavoring or as conservatives are stored in bodyfat and all tissues and we see an epidemia of cases of 8 year old girls with HUGE breasts, or young boys with female chest, with hormonal systems reversed or amplified to the extreme.

 

 

I've been eating lots of MSG for about 45 years (not deliberately, but it is heavily used in Chinese food). I'll keep you posted if I develope any health problems when I get older.

That's good, and my grandfather smoked 1 pound of tobacco each day and he lived pretty old. Conclusion: tobacco is not harmful ! and maybe it even prolongs life ! And all this time we were wrong, trying to make people stop smoking... it's the native Indians hundred years ago who were right, tobacco is good for health.

[xjohanx]

Tuc, when you say scientific studies, what do you mean? Because a lot of observations studies has been done that shows negative side effects of MSG, specially in high doses. And if you consider an increased BMI to be a positive thing you need to look at the worlds' health and really rethink things.

[hilary wright]

Concluding that tobacco is healthy is your conclusion, not mine. Equating tobacco use with MSG is your analogy, not mine (as it is a bit far-fetched). My Grandfather smoked for most of his 94 years and was quite healthy all of his life . . . it certainly doesn't lead me to conclude that smoking is healthy, but everything effects people differently. My father was a heavy smoker and had a long list of associated health problems. As I said, I have experienced no adverse health problems from MSG . . . others may. But then I also eat a high protein diet, take supplements, and eat some cooked food.

[tuc]

There's been tons of scientific studies who claim MSG is harmful, and it's easy to say they're all worthless, because there's no flawless studies.

Well, show me those scientific studies then. And I don't mean raw food magazine articles, I mean peer-reviewed articles of intervention studies. If you just look at the case studies you'll never eat soy again since one guy (out of 6,8 billion people here on earth) got boobs by eating soy. That still doesn't mean that most people are healthy eating soy.

 

Intervention studies do not show adverse effects correlated with the usage of MSG.

 

And it's only CORRELATION with higher BMI, it does not mean CAUSALITY. It's weak and only found in one study so I wouldn't draw any conclusions with that.

[Im Your Man]

Tuc, you said yourself that there is "zero scientific studies have found it causing negative side effects", and right after you quote that a study "determined that MSG intake may be positively related to increased BMI (Body Mass Index)" and you trust this study as well as believing it is a good effect, eventhough now you're saying we shouldn't draw conclusions from this study Well that's good, if you can't trust any conclusions from exterior, draw your own conclusions from the inside. Personally I don't read any study because it's 30 pages long and to have access to full studies it costs a 30$/month membership and personally I got more important things to do or to spend my time and money on. But I read articles about this subject and they all say "this study said that" and "that other study proved this", etc. I don't really care if there's a study proving processed soy or MSG or GMO are bad, because I don't consume any, or I try to reduce to the bare minimum. It's like, I don't need a study to prove me that fire can be harmful. For me it is evident that the only things that are safe are natural foods like organic fruits, vegetables, seeds and sprouts, and it is evident that everything else which has been processed, with something removed or especially added, or something entirely made in laboratory, is unnecessary and is not natural, not normal, thereby subject to cause potential damage, known or unknown. If there's a product that I know I should avoid like a tofu dog but that I eat it anyway, it doesn't mean that I think it is good for me, it just means I am conscious of my choices and decisions as well as the risks and consequences associated, like the smoker who knows it's not good for him or the person who's savouring an old whisky for pleasure eventhough he knows it is risky for his weak heart.

[Fallen_Horse]

And it's only CORRELATION with higher BMI, it does not mean CAUSALITY. It's weak and only found in one study so I wouldn't draw any conclusions with that.

 

Maaaaannnn so many people don't understand the difference between correlation and causality, it's rather unfortunate...

[tuc]

unnecessary and is not natural, not normal, thereby subject to cause potential damage, known or unknown

That is just rhetoric. You are writing that using a COMPUTER. Is that "natural" or "normal"? You said that there are many studies that say that eating MSG is dangerous but you can't show any and you start ranting about how you don't trust scientific studies and how you don't have access to them.

 

You can read all the abstracts of medical scientific studies for free here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

 

Is bodybuilding natural? No. If something is not natural it doesn't mean it is unhealthy.

 

Tuc, when you say scientific studies, what do you mean? Because a lot of observations studies has been done that shows negative side effects of MSG, specially in high doses. And if you consider an increased BMI to be a positive thing you need to look at the worlds' health and really rethink things.

I'm talking about intervention studies. Statistical studies show no potential danger, nor does clinical studies. There's loads of MSG in tomato for example and eating tomatoes doesn't make you sick.

[Im Your Man]

That is just rhetoric. You are writing that using a COMPUTER. Is that "natural" or "normal"?

We're talking about food here, stuff that we put in our body... But you're right, computers can't be found in nature, and yes they're unhealthy: the materials they're built with are unhealthy for the environement when we don't need it anymore, and the screen produces waves that people are sensitive to, certain persons more than others. Some people get sick when we open a tv or if they get to close to a tv, microwave, etc. Some studies show that cell phones can cause some health issues or even brain tumors.

 

You said that there are many studies that say that eating MSG is dangerous but you can't show any and you start ranting about how you don't trust scientific studies and how you don't have access to them.

Well like I said, I don't care too much about studies, they never really have any impact on my life. I did mention a study, the one that you showed yourself and which you said was a good study and which you believed their conclusion about the effects of MSG on BMI.

 

You can read all the abstracts of medical scientific studies for free here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

Well like I said I don't have access to the full documents. This site only shows a summary, removing everything they want and removing everything they don't want to show.

 

 

Is bodybuilding natural? No. If something is not natural it doesn't mean it is unhealthy.

ahah, and bodybuilding is healthy ? It depends what kind of bodybuilding you're doing and what are your goals of course... If what you're doing is only lifting weights and eating healthy, of course it's healthy. But that may be just "weightlifting", not "bodybuilding". And weightlifting is natural... bodybuilding can be natural too, it's just weightlifting but with the will to add more muscles, wheather it's natural or not may depend on how much muscle you build, I guess, and what are your methods... for instance the bodybuilding that Charlie Abel does is pretty natural and I don't see what's so artificial. Of course, the business of bodybuilding, with the competitions and everything it involves, and even just the idea of adding the maximum of lean mass on the body ain't very natural; but the sport of bodybuilding is just like any other physical activity, it's natural, eventhough you can't find shoes or clothes in the nature.... But most bodybuilders take supplements, creatine, processed protein isolates, eat an excess of calories for many months and then do an intense diet to lose all bodyfat. Most bodybuilders, at least those who compete or want to compete, will tell you that it's not healthy.

 

I'm talking about intervention studies. Statistical studies show no potential danger, nor does clinical studies. There's loads of MSG in tomato for example and eating tomatoes doesn't make you sick.

Well like I already said, eating a natural food which contain MSG naturally and in a natural dose ain't the samething as eating a processed product with added isolated MSG, coming from a natural source or not, and may have different effects on the body.

 

Concerning studies, like I said I don't really care about them, so don't ask to me to provide some I'm not convinced at all by their methods and their conclusions, like if we use the same example as before "MSG intake may be positively related to...", that doesn't mean much, and it's the samething in most studies. They could have said also: "may be, or not, positively related to...". They often write also at the end of most articles about studies : "but further tests are required to confirm...". If you're saying that there's no study proving MSG have adverse side effects, maybe you're right, but that doesn't prove MSG have no adverse side effects, it just means that no study found them, may they exist or not. Should I remind you that science is far from being infallible, in nutrition, in astronomy, in everything? Do know how difficult it is to try to target the effect on just one substance when there's thousands of others in our body and that an infinite number of things happen in our body every second? Do you know how hard, even with our modern technology, it is to find a precise gene amongst all the others in the DNA or to discover a distant planet in the cosmos with our telescopes? So you may chose to trust MSG or not, or to believe what you want about them. I have my opinion and you have yours

[RAINRA]

http://poisonevercure.150m.com/monosodium_glutamate.htm

 

http://www.westonaprice.org/msg/msgconcerned.html

 

http://www.feingold.org/Research/msg.html

[beforewisdom]

A truly different interesting opinion about MSG. Fascinating history too

http://beforewisdom.com/blog/?p=166

[tuc]

http://poisonevercure.150m.com/monosodium_glutamate.htm

This one has very little science and loads of scaremongering. Don't buy that nonsense.

 

http://www.westonaprice.org/msg/msgconcerned.html

Weston A. Price is pure bullshit, heavily anti-vegan, anti-vegetarian meat lobby. Don't buy anything they say because it's very likely not true.

 

http://www.feingold.org/Research/msg.html

This one is good. Check the researches yourself and check if there is a single one which tells that MSG is dangerous to HUMANS at the doses it is possible to get from food (they pump those rats with toxic amounts of all kinds of stuff and then claim it's dangerous even though it would be impossible for anyone to get that much from food even if they try).

 

You can find similar lists from soy and that doesn't make soy dangerous. I HATE it when people are being scared for no reason. If MSG was dangerous it would be widely known.

 

What makes it even worse they sell stuff without ingredients they claim to be dangerous. They make MONEY out of scaring people for no reason! Screw those guys.

[blabbate]

That is just rhetoric. You are writing that using a COMPUTER. Is that "natural" or "normal"?

We're talking about food here, stuff that we put in our body...

That's true. I felt terribly sick after trying to eat my computer.

[hilary wright]

That's true. I felt terribly sick after trying to eat my computer.

 

Probably because you don't have an Apple.

[HCPinGviini]

Well like I said, I don't care too much about studies, they never really have any impact on my life. I did mention a study, the one that you showed yourself and which you said was a good study and which you believed their conclusion about the effects of MSG on BMI.

 

You can read all the abstracts of medical scientific studies for free here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

Well like I said I don't have access to the full documents. This site only shows a summary, removing everything they want and removing everything they don't want to show.

You yourself started to talk about studies at the first place, sweetie.

 

But I'm with tuc as I don't belive that there's anything harmful eating MSG as people consume it such a small amounts and as he said: It's found in the nature. You worry too much about isolated products, honey. And it seems quite riddiculous to argue that something's unhealthy even though you have zero evidence claiming your point right. Saying "of course it's not healthy" is like saying stuff like "of course there are dragons". It's just some empty words, if you can't prove yourself right.

 

I should use more MSG as it's so huggin' good.

[Im Your Man]

http://poisonevercure.150m.com/monosodium_glutamate.htm

This one has very little science and loads of scaremongering. Don't buy that nonsense.

 

http://www.westonaprice.org/msg/msgconcerned.html

Weston A. Price is pure bullshit, heavily anti-vegan, anti-vegetarian meat lobby. Don't buy anything they say because it's very likely not true.

 

http://www.feingold.org/Research/msg.html

This one is good. Check the researches yourself and check if there is a single one which tells that MSG is dangerous to HUMANS at the doses it is possible to get from food (they pump those rats with toxic amounts of all kinds of stuff and then claim it's dangerous even though it would be impossible for anyone to get that much from food even if they try).

 

You can find similar lists from soy and that doesn't make soy dangerous. I HATE it when people are being scared for no reason. If MSG was dangerous it would be widely known.

 

What makes it even worse they sell stuff without ingredients they claim to be dangerous. They make MONEY out of scaring people for no reason! Screw those guys.

 

I agree with you that there's lots of paranoia about everything and that fear, not only in politics but in all aspects of life like nutrition, is a tool many people and lobbies use to try to brainwash and control the population and therefore to obtain what they want from them.

 

But about MSG and certain other substances, we know for sure they're not fondamentally good things, they just can't be, they don't contain any vitamins or any essential nutrients that the body can use to optimize health or even not calories to transform in energy. Are they neutral ? It can't be. When a substance don't provide anything good to the body, it can only bruing trouble, the body can't use it, and it has to get rid of it, it's just a nuisance and a pain in the ass.

 

If MSG can kill or harm rats, it could do the samething to humans but a much higher dose is required. But rats are often used in experiments concerning humans because rats react, in general, the same way humans do to many substances.

I'll agree with you that MSG never killed any human instantly, as for other poisons also you need a very large dose in one shot or small amounts over a long period of time. It could be the main cause of death or only contribute to the death in combination with other substances and other factors. It can be directly responsible or indirectly.

No doctor will ever say MSG is directly responsible for someone's cancer or other disease, and it's even hard for scientists to prove it can directly lead to health issues. The actual diagnosis system often don't allow to find which factor (environment, nutrition, etc), or combination of factors, cause a disease.

Individual diseases are multifactorial. We must observe a very large sample of individuals in the population and then make the best estimates and hypothesis.

 

As for being scared of MSG, I'm not scared and I'm not scared of other substances, but I don't think we should embrace and protect them. If they would be dangerous it would be widely known -- not necessarily, or maybe it will, but it may take time. It took time to discover or tell the truth about other dangerous substances. This is not only true in nutrition but in politics for instance, it took time to discover the real reasons why the US government was fighting in Vietnam or other places, until some top secret documents of war files became public. If you don't believe in any conspiracy at all, I suggest you to read stuff about Monsanto for instance.

 

Yeah, tiny amounts of more-or-less harmful products ain't a big deal and it won't kill us... But all the numbers of cancers skyrocked during the last decades, samething for all allergies. Some say that infections are the only things that dropped, but I heard from other specialists that this also went 300-600% up, at least concerning infections caused during sex.

If you get your blood analysed, there will be at least 20 toxic heavy metals found in it, mercury, arsenic, dioxides and even illegal substances like pcb and dtt... about 110 contaminants in total.

 

And the doctor will tell you that because of the era we live in, this is normal and that we shouldn't worry about it. And it's true, some people still live pretty old with all this shit in their blood and tissues, but some others don't live that old and some will die very young even of cancers at the age of 20-25 !

Now, most young men in the world have an abnormally low sperm count and low quality, in some places it's more alarming. Tired and lazy sperms that can barely move. Also, increase number of miscarriage cases in many areas.

 

 

Probably because you don't have an Apple.

Finally I agree with Hilary. Apple rules !

 

Saying "of course it's not healthy" is like saying stuff like "of course there are dragons".

But we have scientific proof of dragons: fossils and bones of dinosaurs

But seriously, if nobody can prove that MSG is healthy, than it's unhealthy, simple as that. What's healthy in MSG, some hidden vitamin C that we can't locate yet with the microscope, or maybe MSG increase general health and protect from cancers and heart attacks ?

[Im Your Man]

Yes, tiny amounts of MSG don't matter so much, but then, tiny amounts of MSG in this food product, a bit more in that one, etc, everyday of your life, as well as tiny amounts of a toxic substance you breathe all the time because of cars, airplanes, factories, another toxic substance in tap water, another in synthetic clothes entering your skin, another in soaps, etc...

[blabbate]

Saying "of course it's not healthy" is like saying stuff like "of course there are dragons".

But we have scientific proof of dragons: fossils and bones of dinosaurs

But seriously, if nobody can prove that MSG is healthy, than it's unhealthy, simple as that. What's healthy in MSG, some hidden vitamin C that we can't locate yet with the microscope, or maybe MSG increase general health and protect from cancers and heart attacks ?

Aha! So absence of evidence is evidence of absence. I knew it! I'm going to ride home on my unicorn-powered cotton-candy sled, since you can't prove that I don't have one.

[Im Your Man]

Aha! So absence of evidence is evidence of absence. I knew it! I'm going to ride home on my unicorn-powered cotton-candy sled, since you can't prove that I don't have one.

No, but in nutrition that's how it works, when it's not good for the body, it's bad (and of course there's different levels of harm). Nothing stays in the body without a purpose and just sits there, waiting for God knows what. If it doesn't have the purpose and capacity to serve the body, then the body needs to get rid of it, to prevent potential damage. The body and organs can get rid of wastes, but some malignant substances are pretty smart and manage to stay.

 

Sure you can ride your unicorn and I don't doubt a second you can, in your imagination

[beforewisdom]

Can you imagine what would happen if someone ate "nightshade" vegetables topped with an MSG based sauce cooked in a microwave!!

[hilary wright]

Can you imagine what would happen if someone ate "nightshade" vegetables topped with an MSG based sauce cooked in a microwave!!

 

 

The body, being unable to cope with all of the poisons would explode into a unicorn, causing much harm and cuteness . . . can't prove it wouldn't happen . . . and my company is PC based.

[Vegan Joe]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080813164638.htm

 

ScienceDaily (Aug. 14, 2008) — People who use monosodium glutamate, or MSG, as a flavor enhancer in their food are more likely than people who don't use it to be overweight or obese even though they have the same amount of physical activity and total calorie intake, according to a University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Public Health study published this month in the journal Obesity. ...

[blabbate]

Aha! So absence of evidence is evidence of absence. I knew it! I'm going to ride home on my unicorn-powered cotton-candy sled, since you can't prove that I don't have one.

No, but in nutrition that's how it works, when it's not good for the body,

Bzzt, stop right there. You don't know it's not good for the body. Hence, "absence of evidence." If it's not good for the body, the rest of your statement might be true. But you seem to have consistent problems differentiating between theories and facts.