PROVE me that Vegan diet is Optimal for Health...

[Alexender]

ive been bodybuilding for some years...

 

Over those years i been eating ALOT of crap... Which today i know are not Optimal Foods and can in fact Inder your progress.

 

Lately ive been debating whether i should switch from my current diet to a Full Blown Vegan Diet, since i incoporate alot of the foods that a vegan are probally eating on a regular basis.

 

IM OPEN MINDED.

 

THE FOODS I WILL NOT EAT NO MATTER WHAT ARE : Wheat(Gluten-Products), Dairy Products(Milk,yogourt,cow products), Soy,Any kind of Processed foods(Bread,pasta-wheat,all that crap,man made sauce), HIGH INTAKE OF SUGAR... etc...

 

Yes im currently eating meat and chicken , eggs and fish,im taking COD liver oil as omega 3 as well.

 

The reason im asking is yes im ok on a diet like this, i do look way better than most people but I dont feel too well.

 

Could i Be better EATING ONLY Rice, Cabbage, Pineapple and more fruits and more greens???

 

This is what im wondering....

 

My main concern is health.

 

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs113.snc1/4953_1159561342827_1041593214_493359_3671574_n.jpg

[cubby2112]

You will find no better argument for a vegan diet than the China Study by T. Colin Campbell. Read that, and maybe something by Dr. Fuhrman, McDougall, Esselstyn, Ornish, etc. Jack Norris is a great source on vegan nutrition, as well as Michael Gregor.

 

Here is a great article on vegan lifting by Jack Norris: http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/weightlifting

 

Also, check out some profiles on this site to see what some current vegan lifters are doing for nutrition: http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bios

 

There certainly isn't a need for soy, other legumes work just fine. It sounds like you have the right idea, avoiding processed stuff. Lots of people become vegans, then eat like shit and wonder why they feel crappy.

 

You may want to look into some nutritional yeast and hemp protein, since you seem to want to stick to whole foods. Bulkfoods.com has a great price on nutritional yeast if you buy five pounds, and vitacost.com has a great price on 3lb bags of Nutiva hemp protein (high protein or high fiber version).

 

BTW, nice physique!

[Anji]

Well chicken isn't that good for you, in fact a lot of chicken is injected with pork fat to make it look plumper and since the 1940s chickens nutritional value has lowered incredibly. Also I agree with not eating white bread, white pasta and white rice but the wholegrain versions of these foods are really beneficial as a vegan, particularly if eaten with lentils or beans because it creates a protein.

...just a few bits of information

[beforewisdom]

Alexander;

 

The best health argument you will ever get for a plant based diet is in the book called "The China Study". It was the largest epidemiological human nutrition study in history and it was run by one of the top scientists in the U.S.. You will not get better credentials or a higher quality ( backed up ) of information elsewhere. It has been out for a few years, so you can probably read it for free from your local library.

 

I recommend reading this short link on getting the best nutrition information , should you be interested in trying a more plant based diet:

http://beforewisdom.com/blog/?page_id=462

 

There is a lot of bull shit on the web ( and this board ) about vegan nutrition.

 

To be honest, a number of bodybuilders have reported a period of adjustment when they switched to vegan diets. They had to learn about new foods, change some eating habits and use more protein supplements.

 

Lastly, you can edit your posts and post titles on this web board. I believe the phrase you want in your title is

 

"Prove to me that a vegan diet is optimal for health"

 

No disrespect

[Theresaann]

Cubby, thanks for the connection to the hemp protein-tre helpful! Good post too.

 

Alexander, you are going to have to so some research to educate yourself, but its SO worth it. I've found I thrive on a vegan diet, even WITH bodybuilding, ONLY If I do not eat crap as well-that means no daily indulgence in crap like "soy ice cream, chips, "vegan cookies," and all that. Also, no snacking between meals.

 

If I stick to whole foods, with very high nutrient content diet, as in "Eat to Live," Dr. Fuhrman's book (drfuhrman.com), I do amazingly well. Dr. Fuhrman is the smartest guy on nutrition that I've studied. That and the China Study and you are good to go!

[Marcina]

On the contrary Therasaan... Lots of people can snack in between meals on a vegan diet and still gain muscle. Especially men and people with high metabolisms such as myself! I eat every 2 hours. I don't gain weight unless I do. A bodybuilding diet is a lot different from a fat-loss diet when it comes to terms in how often a person eats. With bodybuilding, frequent meals are helpful. To remain lean, it's good to have a clean diet. It's best for recovery too

 

On a vegan diet I would strongly recommend a vegan brand of creatine. Since I started using it, it's really helped my gains since creatine is not available in vegan foods. The body makes its own and supplementing really seems to help.

[Tommy-Jitsu]

it cures cancer, thats why:

[Theresaann]

"On the contrary Therasaan... Lots of people can snack in between meals on a vegan diet and still gain muscle."

 

I wasn't saying that everyone should eat that way, only that I found that it works for me. Everyone has to find their own way.

[Couture547]

Well chicken isn't that good for you, in fact a lot of chicken is injected with pork fat to make it look plumper and since the 1940s chickens nutritional value has lowered incredibly. Also I agree with not eating white bread, white pasta and white rice but the wholegrain versions of these foods are really beneficial as a vegan, particularly if eaten with lentils or beans because it creates a protein.

...just a few bits of information

 

Chicken is a hell of alot healthier then alot of crap vegans eat like the mock meats, protein powders ect. I actually thing the lean animal products are the one of the healthiest things the average person eats on sad. Problem is people go vegan and eat the same stuff as before but without the whole food animal prodcuts and adds in processed food. Vegan diet done right though is the best diet anyone could do

[Couture547]

ive been bodybuilding for some years...

 

Over those years i been eating ALOT of crap... Which today i know are not Optimal Foods and can in fact Inder your progress.

 

Lately ive been debating whether i should switch from my current diet to a Full Blown Vegan Diet, since i incoporate alot of the foods that a vegan are probally eating on a regular basis.

 

IM OPEN MINDED.

 

THE FOODS I WILL NOT EAT NO MATTER WHAT ARE : Wheat(Gluten-Products), Dairy Products(Milk,yogourt,cow products), Soy,Any kind of Processed foods(Bread,pasta-wheat,all that crap,man made sauce), HIGH INTAKE OF SUGAR... etc...

 

Yes im currently eating meat and chicken , eggs and fish,im taking COD liver oil as omega 3 as well.

 

The reason im asking is yes im ok on a diet like this, i do look way better than most people but I dont feel too well.

 

Could i Be better EATING ONLY Rice, Cabbage, Pineapple and more fruits and more greens???

 

This is what im wondering....

 

My main concern is health.

 

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs113.snc1/4953_1159561342827_1041593214_493359_3671574_n.jpg

 

You look great, I agree with your list of foods you want to avoid except i do'nt see a point in avoid all gluten unless you know your allergic. Non gluten grains are better though becasue your less likely to have a issue with them. I think you'd do great as a vegan as long as you get out of the tradition mind set of needing x amount of percent of protein/ carbs/ fats that they say to eat on a bodybuilding diet. That works fine on a omni diet casue you can eat whole real foods and hit the numbers, but it's impossible to get much over 25 percent protein as a vegan on real foods. I've noticed the best looking vegans are the ones eatting the carbs and eatting a majority of whole foods. I see others that are living off mock animal prodcuts, protein powders ect and are 160 pounds

[Vegan Joe]

Chicken is a hell of alot healthier then alot of crap vegans eat like the mock meats, protein powders ect. I actually thing the lean animal products are the one of the healthiest things the average person eats on sad. Problem is people go vegan and eat the same stuff as before but without the whole food animal prodcuts and adds in processed food. Vegan diet done right though is the best diet anyone could do

Now shouldn't that read fresh fruits and vegetables instead of lean animal products. What happened to all your soapbox carbohydrate speech.

[Vegan Joe]

I've noticed the best looking vegans are the ones eatting the carbs and eatting a majority of whole foods. I see others that are living off mock animal prodcuts, protein powders ect and are 160 pounds

160 pounds is fine if you're 5'8". Dang you funny man.

[Zack]

Now shouldn't that read fresh fruits and vegetables instead of lean animal products. What happened to all your soapbox carbohydrate speech.

 

[Ducati]

Chicken is a hell of alot healthier then alot of crap vegans eat like the mock meats, protein powders ect. I actually thing the lean animal products are the one of the healthiest things the average person eats on sad. Problem is people go vegan and eat the same stuff as before but without the whole food animal prodcuts and adds in processed food. Vegan diet done right though is the best diet anyone could do

 

I disagree. When I went from omni to junk food vegetarian, I lost weight and felt better. Even the faux meats are better than real meats. No antibiotics or hormones, and much much fewer pesticides and other chemicals.

 

I do think some omni's who eat a diet with a a lot of fruit and vegetables are healthier than many vegans who never eat fruits or vegetables. Frosted Flakes for breakfast, faux lunch meat with veganaise for lunch, and vegan burritos for dinner is not the least bit healthy. And I know many many overweight vegans who eat this way everyday. And they can't figure out why they are overweight.

 

But I would take anything vegan, no matter how unhealthy, over a piece real meat any day. Even if I ignored the fact that it was a living creature, I would rather have the processed crap without chemicals and hormones, then the real thing. Even junk food vegans don't have the same levels of cancer and heart disease as the average omni.

[Couture547]

Chicken is a hell of alot healthier then alot of crap vegans eat like the mock meats, protein powders ect. I actually thing the lean animal products are the one of the healthiest things the average person eats on sad. Problem is people go vegan and eat the same stuff as before but without the whole food animal prodcuts and adds in processed food. Vegan diet done right though is the best diet anyone could do

Now shouldn't that read fresh fruits and vegetables instead of lean animal products. What happened to all your soapbox carbohydrate speech.

 

 

People on sad diets eat very little fresh fruits and veggies or good carbs in general. The average american get like 40-45 percent carbs and the majority of that comes from refined white flower, sugar ect. So with the exception of a fresh fruit or veggie here and there lean animal prodcuts are the healthiest things average american eats

[Couture547]

Chicken is a hell of alot healthier then alot of crap vegans eat like the mock meats, protein powders ect. I actually thing the lean animal products are the one of the healthiest things the average person eats on sad. Problem is people go vegan and eat the same stuff as before but without the whole food animal prodcuts and adds in processed food. Vegan diet done right though is the best diet anyone could do

 

I disagree. When I went from omni to junk food vegetarian, I lost weight and felt better. Even the faux meats are better than real meats. No antibiotics or hormones, and much much fewer pesticides and other chemicals.

 

I do think some omni's who eat a diet with a a lot of fruit and vegetables are healthier than many vegans who never eat fruits or vegetables. Frosted Flakes for breakfast, faux lunch meat with veganaise for lunch, and vegan burritos for dinner is not the least bit healthy. And I know many many overweight vegans who eat this way everyday. And they can't figure out why they are overweight.

 

But I would take anything vegan, no matter how unhealthy, over a piece real meat any day. Even if I ignored the fact that it was a living creature, I would rather have the processed crap without chemicals and hormones, then the real thing. Even junk food vegans don't have the same levels of cancer and heart disease as the average omni.

 

I disagree, but see where your coming from. The term vegan explains what someone doesn't eat not what they do it. I don't belive animal products are healthy and think everyone should limited them, but compared to white flower, white sugar, oils, transfat, high salt ect. animals products are healthy. Any Whole food> over a refined food imo.

[beforewisdom]

I disagree, but see where your coming from. The term vegan explains what someone doesn't eat not what they do it..

 

That isn't correct.

 

The term "vegan" isn't about what people don't eat, but about an ethical belief they have -- the "why" they do it.

 

Donald Watson & his wife created the term "vegan" shortly after WWII. The term was made to refer to people who have the belief that it is wrong to use animals. Thus someone can eat a "vegan diet" without *being* a vegan -- a person who believes it is wrong to use animals.

 

Here is a PDF of the letter/newsletter where the Watson's first coined the term "vegan" before they started the Vegan Society of the UK.

 

http://beforewisdom.com/veg/archive/watsonStartVeganism.pdf

[Ducati]

I disagree, but see where your coming from. The term vegan explains what someone doesn't eat not what they do it. I don't belive animal products are healthy and think everyone should limited them, but compared to white flower, white sugar, oils, transfat, high salt ect. animals products are healthy. Any Whole food> over a refined food imo.

 

I eat that those unhealthy foods occasionally. I wouldn't eat meat occasionally. Nor would I eat non-organic blueberries. Both meat and non-organic blueberries are laden with pesticides. And meat has antibiotics, hormones, carbon monoxide, and a bunch of other chemicals they won't tell you about. When I went from lean meats to vegan "junk food", I still lost some weight and felt much better.

[Couture547]

I disagree, but see where your coming from. The term vegan explains what someone doesn't eat not what they do it..

 

That isn't correct.

 

The term "vegan" isn't about what people don't eat, but about an ethical belief they have -- the "why" they do it.

 

Donald Watson & his wife created the term "vegan" shortly after WWII. The term was made to refer to people who have the belief that it is wrong to use animals. Thus someone can eat a "vegan diet" without *being* a vegan -- a person who believes it is wrong to use animals.

 

Here is a PDF of the letter/newsletter where the Watson's first coined the term "vegan" before they started the Vegan Society of the UK.

 

http://beforewisdom.com/veg/archive/watsonStartVeganism.pdf

 

I don't care who coined the term, the fact of the matter is a vegan is someone who doesn't consume animal products. There are people that do it for animals, health, envirmental doesn't matter why they do it there still vegan. There's also people that could belive it's wrong to eat animals but still do it, so does that make them vegan? of course not

[Couture547]

I disagree, but see where your coming from. The term vegan explains what someone doesn't eat not what they do it. I don't belive animal products are healthy and think everyone should limited them, but compared to white flower, white sugar, oils, transfat, high salt ect. animals products are healthy. Any Whole food> over a refined food imo.

 

I eat that those unhealthy foods occasionally. I wouldn't eat meat occasionally. Nor would I eat non-organic blueberries. Both meat and non-organic blueberries are laden with pesticides. And meat has antibiotics, hormones, carbon monoxide, and a bunch of other chemicals they won't tell you about. When I went from lean meats to vegan "junk food", I still lost some weight and felt much better.

 

the importance of organic is a overhyped. Non organic blue berry> Organic cane sugar any day. non org blue berries will have still have some bad stuff, but organic cane sugar has no benefit what so ever. that said organic whole foods are the best bet

[Alexender]

Update over the last weeks, i remove Fish,eggs and chicken from the diet and red meat and No nuts.

 

I have been doing a cleanse(Celeri,Brocoli,Parsley,aspargus,carrots) shakes multiple day with fruits(pineapple,berries,coconut).

 

I lost some weight but it doesnt really matter its something im experiencing and I guess the cleaning will do something good for the body and i guess all those vitamins,fiber and antioxidant from the Greens,Fruits will help my body.

 

Im going to Reintroduce Red meat(Lean beef sirloin,Liver and Horse Meat) And thats going to be probaly my new diet.

 

Veggies,Fruits + red meat.

 

No eggs,chicken or fish and No whey protein.

 

Theres something about red meat that Keep Me VERY LEAN and does something for my skin and Energy, i cant describe it.

 

It might be b12, Iron and Zinc from the Red lean meat.I get veins all over when i eat red meat, I cant describe it, it is like its anabolic.

 

Or the CLA.

 

I may be celiac and Gluten or grains do a problem that i cant absorb Iron and i become anemic when i consumme Grains and b12 too.

 

I cant rely on Grains,Soy or anything like that, that is just plain crazy... no pun

 

Thank you for your inputs everyone, i appreciate it.

[Ducati]

 

Theres something about red meat that Keep Me VERY LEAN and does something for my skin and Energy, i cant describe it.

 

Of course, it is called steroids and hormones.

[seitan_man]

Alexander, if I looked like you I wouldn't even think twice about changing my diet, as it has cleary been optimal in helping you create that amazing physique.

 

I am a vegan for ethical reasons, but find that so much contradictory information is given about the vegan diet that it is hard to know what to eat to build muscle etc. especially for someone new to the lifestyle. Soy and gluten are common 'lean' vegan protein sources so if you were cutting them out completely you may run into the problem of having to 'get protein through carbs', a common criticism of the vegan diet in terms of it being beneficial for bodybuilding.