davidtarrfoster Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 As many of you know, I've been eating vegan for about 4 months now. I don't miss the burgers, cheese, butter, junk food or anything like that, and I know I can buy fake leather shoes, belts, etc. But there is one animal product that I'm not sure what do do about: Wool. I wear suits to work, and it seems that all men's suits are made of woolI have a dress overcoat made of woolI love wool socksI love sweaters, which all seem to be made made of wool So I'm not going to throw out my wool clothes that I already have, but eventually these clothes will wear out and I'll need to get new suits, sweaters and coats. Two questions I have are: 1. Is wool horrible and cruel to buy. I assume it is, but I haven't seen much on the topic. 2. Is there a substitute? Is there a store that sells non-wool suits? Are there non wool sweaters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 animals that are kept for wool are in captivity, and as far as I know they are also the same animals which will be used for meat. Animals which are bred for wool have been specifically bred to have more wool than is natural for them, so it become uncomfortable for them. Additionally, depending on the farm, the animals can be further mistreated due to rough handling during the shearing (they can be bruised / grazed / cut), and also all the other usual farm type things. Alternatives are generally man-made things like polyester I think. Also cotton. I have some nice thick jumpers which aren't wool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Can you buy used suits and have them altered to fit properly? At least then you're recycling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveliberate Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I second the idea of buying used. Personally I would not get rid of stuff that I already owned just because it's wool, leather or whatever. On a side but related note, I remain unconvinced that buying new petroleum based (& most other) synthetic stuff is particularly better for the earth or animals than using animal products... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I don't think anything is wrong with wearing things you already owned...however I took that as an opportunity to give my stuff to friends that would buy those things for themselves...it keeps them from buying replacements for a bit longer which is a really good thing. As for the suits there are lots of cotton suits...I used to have a few but now they're way to big so I donated them to goodwill. One was a really snazzy expensive Pierre Cardin suit if your interested in names. Plus the good thing about cotton is that it is far cooler than wool but at the same time it can be just as warm. As for socks I always wear cotton when I'm not training but in term of the feel of wool...I'd say go with hemp socks as a replacement. In terms of the cruelty angle Australia is terrible and they export more wool than anyone. I saw a video of 4 guys in Australia holding a sheep by its legs and another guy cut the tail off the sheep, there was a huge line of sheep waiting for the same thing to happen to them...I have no idea why they do this but they do and with no medication to ease the pain at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 I like the fleece stuff that is like wool but is fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offense74 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 There are alot of problems with cotton too. Pestecides, working environment, where is it grown, etc.It's not an easy question.Peronally I'd prefer wool from grazing sheep than cotton who has been grown so that half a tribe in Africa have been gased to death from pestecides. The synthetic materials are no picknick either, usually made from environmentally hazardous materials that might even harm you healthwise in the long run.But you got to have clothes on your body so some "religion" have to be sacrificed or you will freeze to death (or actually have to live the common nightmare where you find yourself naked on a street full of people). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 There's always organic cotton...its become far more readily available...also hemp even in its non organic state is pretty unobtrusive to the environment compared to growing most things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Hell, Walmart sells organic shirts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneyvegan Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Yes Potter is right, the process is called mulesing...Because sheep naturally have wrinkles and folds of skin around their back end, they are prone to fly strike in hot climates (like we have in Australia). The flies lay eggs in the folds of skin then the maggots hatch and proceed to eat the flesh of the sheep....Farmers cut the folds of skin away without anaesthetic leaving a large open wound.... this then heals with smooth scar tissue, thus removing the problem of the wrinkles...This is why I wont wear Wool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andesuma Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I remember it took me awhile to figure this one out as well...However, wool is cruel; and often comes from the sheep right after slaughter. It is supporting the by-product of an unimaginably cruelindustry and practice. I have read in previous vegan forums that Kohl's and Lands End havegood wool-alternative suit options.Also, buying second hand is definitely a good idea, & Good Will is likethe blob taking over Oregon, so I don't think you'll have much trouble finding something that looks good.And don't forget Craigslist! People sell everything on that thing... link about wool:http://www.animalsvoice.com/PAGES/writes/editorial/investigations/misc/wrong_wool.html link for alternatives:http://www.peta.org/living/alt1.asp good luck & if you ever want a female opinion while out looking forsomething second hand, let me know.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offense74 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Hemp is definately the way of the future. But for right now our nice and compassionate governments wants to protect us from the horrors of marijuana whilst subsidicing dairy because it's just so damned good for your bones I have not ever seen organic cotton in Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 The way i think of it, at a very basic level, is imagine if you had a basement full of children, and you don't let them out, and every so often you shave their head and sell their hair. Do you ask any more questions before saying it's wrong? I certainly wouldn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 In addition to what others have said, there's usually no way to tell if wool comes from shearing (which , unless you are actually there to witness the process, you have no idea how badly any specific group of sheep is treated) or is what they call "pulled wool": wool gathered from a sheep after it is killed. Also, the whole idea that we NEED to use animal products in some way needs to be rethought, and by wearing wool, one seems to support the idea that we need to exploit animals to live well. I agree that you should wear the suits you have until they are no longer wearable (or give away those that are in good shape to Goodwill or the Salvation army and keep wearing those that are still wearable, but not necessarily someone else would wear as used), but don't buy anymore. ' Tencel and hemp are two fibers to look into. Like you, I was vegan in diet before I had gone 'all the way" (and pretty much vegan since I went vegetarian): I didn't buy any more leather or wool, but I wore a few pairs of leather shoes I had until they were no longer wearable. And it took me a while to get rid of the beautiful wool sweaters I had knit myself (I finally decided to , and gave them to my stepmother). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offense74 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I'm not saying I don't have any problems buying wool. I don't think I even own any wool stuff.What I'm saying is that when you go buy a shirt you are making an active decision between Africans dying of cancer from pesticides, animals living under bad conditions and environmentally destructive chemical substances (as in petroleum-based materials). I don't act like it's an easy decision. It's not. As I said earlier, hemp rocks! But our elected politicians have decided for us that it's better to have sheep mutilated and African workers dying of cancer than to risk having a few white people getting stoned on a friday night (alcohol is ok though). It's nothing short of rediculous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I think its a different case with cotton...surely the people don't have many work opportunities but they are volunteering to do those things. And yes its terrible to support that but then they'd have no work at all. The animals have no say whatsoever...well they do but nobody listens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidtarrfoster Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Wow. Thanks for all the info. The cotton vs. synthetics vs. wool is interesting. I may just default to the "Robert Test" for my decisions. That is, if I do something and Robert consequently delivers a DDT or a pile driver, then I've made the wrong choice. Seriously, though, I'll check out the cotton suit thing. Thanks. Anyone know if there is a label to look for to know if wool is harvested humanely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneyvegan Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 There are some good high quality cotton suit fabrics available... Holland and Sherry, which is one of the biggest cloth manufacturers on Savile Row, make some really nice suit fabrics.... It gets expensive when you start getting suits Tailor made, but it is a solution.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelicanAndrew Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Wow. Thanks for all the info. The cotton vs. synthetics vs. wool is interesting. I may just default to the "Robert Test" for my decisions. That is, if I do something and Robert consequently delivers a DDT or a pile driver, then I've made the wrong choice. Seriously, though, I'll check out the cotton suit thing. Thanks. Anyone know if there is a label to look for to know if wool is harvested humanely? The only real way to find that out would be to... 1. Call the company and find out what farm they use for their wool.2. Go to farm and see how the sheep are. Depending on where the farm is, that'd be a bit of a pain. I also have some wool suits and leather items that i bought before going vegan. I'm using them until they wear out, and then i'm going to check into some cotton suits. Sounds like they'd be more comfy anyway. They make polartech socks. It's basically synthetic fleece. But then comes in the whole petroleum byproduct debate. Maybe just wear 2 pairs of organic cotton/hemp socks. It'd keep your feet nice and toasty for sure. This thread reminds me that i have to make sure my family doesn't buy me anything wool/leather/silk/down for the holidays/Christmas. Hemp all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelbct Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I gradually replaced all my leather products. I just can't reconcile wearing dead animal skin. Try NYC-based http://www.mooshoes.com/ for excellent nonleather leather-like shoes and belts. I bought the Vegan Ware Henry shoe, which is fantastic and very sharp looking, and am planning on ordering another pair. They were featured in a GQ article, I hear. I do have a wool suit and a couple wool sweaters from J Crew, who I hear stopped using Australian wool because of the cruelty, they basically shear off the sheep's skin as well as the wool. So wool is not in general cruelty free, and my next suit would definitely be a high quality synthetic or plant-based material, and I don't plan on buying anymore wool... -Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I think Men's Warehouse sells non-wool suits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelicanAndrew Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I think Men's Warehouse sells non-wool suits Ahhhh good. I seriously love them so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Even Macy's has alot of non-wool suits...you should all check and Marshals and TJ Maxx too...my mother got me a cotton Ralph Lauren sport coat that would have been $400 but since the size on the tag was wrong it was only $80...really rediculously cheap...thats where I get my shoes most of the time too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelicanAndrew Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I use Zappos for shoes. Free shipping and if there's an issue you can ship em back for free too. zappos.com i got my macbeth's there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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