JW Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Went out to lunch with a group of people from work (work-related)So they all start talking about slaughterhouses and how horrible they are and how horrible it must be to work there.But they all ordered meat dishes.I obviously made a few comments but I had to restrain myself because I need my job WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaSiren Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 How about ministers? loving peaceful spreading good will. I want to take them to a slaughter house so they can hear the screams. I wonder if they can really justify that all that is "God's will". Thus, I can't stand stepping into a church any longer. I lose all respect for these types of people. Once they are "enlightened", I can not conceive how they can continue to be a part of such suffering. I hope and pray that kharma bites them in the....end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I don't understand how many people can have such a disconnect between where 'meat' comes from and what they eat. And others refuse to think about it because "then they'd feel bad about eating meat." I agree about ministers (and most other 'religious' folks) who can't see that kindness and compassion should be extended to all of whoever's creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share Posted November 17, 2006 Yes. How people can claim to be compassionate human beings and still support the slaughter of innocent animals?I don't know what is worse... the rationalization or the ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormicaLinoleum Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I think I posted here about this a little while back... I was given a brochure for a conference organized by the Friends on Peace. It was full day of sessions about creating/promoting peace. And what were the choices for lunch? Ham, turkey, or vegetarian (most likely containing cheese) sandwiches. How can peace and the dead bodies of animals go together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 You know, humans may be the stupidest of the animal kingdom, some at least. You can learn alot from other animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 An element to this is the people first mentality. The logic is that we are humans and should think about the suffering of our kind first, before animal suffering. Perhaps if no human suffered we would not make animals suffer. Thats all well and good I guess, lets move onto the counter point. If you care about humans so much why support industries that make them suffer? I'm sure you all know a bit about how bad it is to work at slaughterhouses. I'm also sure many of these people first folks support many other industries that are very cruel to people. I hope your arguments go very well and you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willpeavy Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE????????? They are weak mentally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 I think I posted here about this a little while back... I was given a brochure for a conference organized by the Friends on Peace. It was full day of sessions about creating/promoting peace. And what were the choices for lunch? Ham, turkey, or vegetarian (most likely containing cheese) sandwiches. How can peace and the dead bodies of animals go together? People just don't see the contradictions! Is the conference still coming up? If so,, send them the quote by (who? Ghandi?) that says "how can we talk of peace when we are the graveyard of murdered beasts" (or something to that effect. I'm always appalled when environmental, peace, feminist or any other groups of that nature don't 'get it' and keep offering dead carcasses at their banquets! And she's not a religious leader, but Oprah Winfrey is put forth as such a wonderful humanitarian, bla bla bla...and at her birthday party, she served lobster, veal and (whatever the third most cruel animal-based foods you can imagine!)!I was invited to a dinner put on by some hospital group that dealt with post-op heart patients (a friend and I went for the program that accompanied the meal, which was about some rainforest trip someone took). Guess what the options were (not for me...I asked for vegan): pretty much the same SAD that gave these people heart problems in the first place: beef, cake, I can't even remember exactly what, but I do recall it was so ironic and stupid! (this was actually one time I was happy that my table mates started talking about what I was/wasn't eating!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 The logic is that we are humans and should think about the suffering of our kind first, before animal suffering. That seems to be a mentality a lot of people have. They seem to think that by caring about /having compassion for animals, one can't care about/have compassion for humans. That you can only have one or the other. "There are so many humans suffering in the world" and all that. Yes, there are, but we humans can multi-task,, and reduce both kinds of suffering at the same time. I just never get that argument. Besides, if you can have compassion for a being that is 'not like' you, wouldn't it make it all the easier to have compassion for one that is 'like' you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Kathryn every time i've heard that people first argument it is always in conjuction with some vegan talk. The people first argument is nothing more than an excuse to be speciesist or self centered, take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 I believe that many people out there are truly compassionate but for some reason suppress their guilt over eating animals.I was like that for many years. It's just so easy in our society to eat animals and animal products without even thinking about where they come from. My wife presented a speech at our church last year on animal rights and as a result, a 67 year old woman has become vegetarian.It reminds me of Buddhism..... We all need to be enlightened to see the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finbarrio Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 How about ministers? loving peaceful spreading good will. I want to take them to a slaughter house so they can hear the screams. I wonder if they can really justify that all that is "God's will". Thus, I can't stand stepping into a church any longer. Sounds like Thanksgiving dinner at my house! Last year, my dad, with no prompting whatsoever, actually quoted the bible to back up his position that eating animals was ok. So I asked him "do you really think Jesus would condone the systematic torturing of animals?" End of conversation. SO SO SO much of what we've been taught in this world is simply not true, and/or simply one person's opinion represented as an absolute truth. It's maddening how blindly people follow rather than think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 The ones that bother me the most are those who consider themselves to be compassionate people and despite being made aware of the realities of where meat comes from and how it gets to their plates, continue to eat it!!! The very week after my wife delivered her speech at church, there was a pot luck lunch........ you guessed it......... 90% meat dishes (despite ALL the people telling her afterwards about how it really made them think)aaaaarrrrrggghhh!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I once talked to someone about veganism. They said it had made them think about becoming vegetarian again (they used to be vegetarian). But they added that if they did become vegetarian, they wouldn't tell me because they wouldn't like me to think that I 'won' the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollegeB Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Richard has brought out a good point that Fin's comment about what his dad said, made me think. We hate to be wrong (some might not, but i think most people dont want to admit mistakes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odidnetne Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Suggest a vegetarian restaurant next time, or let them see Meet your meat before going out to eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormicaLinoleum Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 The logic is that we are humans and should think about the suffering of our kind first, before animal suffering. That seems to be a mentality a lot of people have. They seem to think that by caring about /having compassion for animals, one can't care about/have compassion for humans. That you can only have one or the other. "There are so many humans suffering in the world" and all that. Yes, there are, but we humans can multi-task,, and reduce both kinds of suffering at the same time. I just never get that argument. Besides, if you can have compassion for a being that is 'not like' you, wouldn't it make it all the easier to have compassion for one that is 'like' you?I used to get that a lot on a non-vegan board I was on. It obviously makes no sense. First, I can't see how begin a vegan could possibly prevent a person from doing things for people. (And do the people who say this really spend so much time working to address human issues?) Second, with that logic, we shouldn't be doing anything at all other than caring about and working to end human suffering. This board I was on had threads about movies, music, sports, fashion, cars, etc. Why was that a thread about animal rights issues was a waste of time and distraction from "real" issues, but all of those threads about truly trivial things were not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finbarrio Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 This board I was on had threads about movies, music, sports, fashion, cars, etc. Why was that a thread about animal rights issues was a waste of time and distraction from "real" issues, but all of those threads about truly trivial things were not? Because the TomKat wedding is clearly more important than animal rights, world hunger, AIDS, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelicanAndrew Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 You have no idea how much i want to burn down every tabloid in the nation fin. That stupid Celeb-fixation bullshit makes me want to puke. If i ever meet a celebrity i'm just going to pretend like they're a normal person. Say "hey i saw you in blablah, good job!" But no screaming, no obsessing over whatever they wear all that crap. Unless it's Natalie Portman, then all bets are off. p.s, Didn't do that when i met steve albini i could barely breathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 But they added that if they did become vegetarian, they wouldn't tell me because they wouldn't like me to think that I 'won' the discussion. That's an interesting thought. I think many human beings (myself included) don't like to be told what to do. And if they are approached about veganism in a way that sounds like "this is what you should do," (it's their perception that counts, not necessarily how the deliverer of the message feels s/he is delivering that message) they may actually be made to rebel more strongly against the idea. I certainly didn't get into vegetarianism or later veganism because someone approached me and told me I should do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 But they added that if they did become vegetarian, they wouldn't tell me because they wouldn't like me to think that I 'won' the discussion. That's an interesting thought. I think many human beings (myself included) don't like to be told what to do. And if they are approached about veganism in a way that sounds like "this is what you should do," (it's their perception that counts, not necessarily how the deliverer of the message feels s/he is delivering that message) they may actually be made to rebel more strongly against the idea. I certainly didn't get into vegetarianism or later veganism because someone approached me and told me I should do it. Well at the time I was doing my illustration course at university. I was drawing a picture of an animal being eviscerated by a crazed-looking humanoid figure. This girl approached me and asked me what it was about, and I explained that it was about how I dislike animal cruelty, and the people involved with it. So she brought it up, and the conversation went from there, with her questioning my beliefs and asking for reasons behind my choices (even though I think that the choice of killing and eating animals is the one which needs questioning, given that veganism isn't so much an action as it is a non-action). So I wasn't telling her what to do even, just answered her questions. She said it made her think about it, but didn't want it to seem like I had a valid point I guess. I think people feel they are weak to admit they are wrong. I think it's weakness to cling to nonsensical ideas and to fear change. I think it's strength to own up to mistakes and to change the way we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finbarrio Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I think that the choice of killing and eating animals is the one which needs questioning, given that veganism isn't so much an action as it is a non-action. Well put Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdandrew Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I love this site. Good insight from everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 The ones that bother me the most are those who consider themselves to be compassionate people and despite being made aware of the realities of where meat comes from and how it gets to their plates, continue to eat it!!! The very week after my wife delivered her speech at church, there was a pot luck lunch........ you guessed it......... 90% meat dishes (despite ALL the people telling her afterwards about how it really made them think)aaaaarrrrrggghhh!!!!I know. It's tough at times. Really facing it, it's hard to not just get a feeling that you must be superior and the thing is, you want and need to be honest about where you fit in to this society; what you are relative to what others are. And it's hard to find ways to really make excuses for everyone else at times. Yet, who wants to be a narcissist? Or to just come across as some kind of intellectual snob. My work situation is such that I must try to find excuses for a lot people. Lots of women nurses. A group that one would think would be much more likely to be vegan. Yet, there isn't a one of them that is. I think I pretty much have been dishonest with myself. I've pretended people are so much better than they are. I've pretended it was just ignorance when it's clearly lack of compassion. Even most vegans seem to lack very much compassion in my experience, relatively speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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