What specific aspects of the forum are most important?

[robert]

Thanks again for the info! Please keep it coming too! The MORE people respond with specifics the more we have to work with.

 

I CANNOT PROMISE ALL OF THESE THINGS, but we will carefully read through the requests and suggestions and do the best we can to create the future of this website and forum.

 

Thanks and look forward to more ideas.

 

Please tell me (us) what your favorite aspects of other sites or forums are and we'll look into incorporating them here too. No promises, but we'll try hard to satisfy requests.

[beforewisdom]

Stop taking the "edit" button away after a certain amount of time.

 

I know the idea behind this is to prevent trollish types from saying one thing to inflame people and then editing their posts so they can claim they said something else.

 

The thing is, if people do that kind of BS everyone else knows that and that person will/should be ejected anyway.

 

In the meantime people who hurriedly write posts and are embarrassed by errors later....after the "edit" button is gone can't fix their poor writing

 

It's been my experience that having the "edit" button indefinitely becomes a problem eventually. People don't think twice before posting something inflammatory, because they think "well, I can always go back and edit it later."

 

And if there is no edit button for them to do that then the inflammatory message stays up there to heat things up into a flame war. If someobody posts something nasty, it is a blessing that they remove it sooner than later.

 

If someone is doing that a lot to bait people, then hide or if they are just being frivolous an admin can talk to them and not take the edit button away from everyone else.

 

In the end, people own what they write.

 

No offense, I just disagree with you on this.

[beforewisdom]

Please tell me (us) what your favorite aspects of other sites or forums are and we'll look into incorporating them here too.

 

What I like about this forum as opposed to others has nothing to do with technical aspects ( aside from making those debug messages go away ). I like that you stop intra-vegan pissing contests and pump positive, friendly energy into the atmosphere to make it into a friendly place.

 

Most other forums are congregations of the perpetually offended looking for a virtual fight.

[robert]

I appreciate that. We've been around for years and we've been more family-friendly than Disneyland. That is how I set it up from the get-go.

 

Basically, be nice, or leave I personally drive thousands of non-vegans here (those are many of the "visitors" or unregistered users who are on at all hours. So it is important to me that we represent the vegan lifestyle in a positive way.

 

I had to remind people many times that the forum in some way is a reflection of me, of Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness, of veganism in general and we're not just writing to an audience of a few hundred registered users, but to a much wider audience.

 

I get e-mails all the time from non-vegans who appreciate the information they find here.

 

So, thanks for your feedback there and for your feedback about technical aspects too.

 

Cheers.

[VeganEssentials]

There should be a section for people who want to debate veganism.

 

I think a Q&A on veganism section is better than a debate section, personally. Let people who have genuine questions on veganism post in a place where people can reply to authentic interest. It isn't up to anyone here to PROVE why veganism is the lifestyle they choose - if it's pro/anti vegan philosophy that people want to discuss, I think that there's probably better boards for it. Opening up a section where people can get into heated debates over little bits of why they want to find holes in veganism is encouraging too much flaming and B.S. to pop up - that's what kills good message boards quickly. I think that if someone GENUINELY wants to know about vegan ideals, more power to having a place for them to post, but when it comes to someone trying to nitpick something from an anti-vegan standpoint, that's not productive to the nature of the board in any way. Let 'em go elsewhere for that sort of things - this board was designed around fitness, not philosophical debate, so I think we should keep it that way

[robert]

Also note that I know we moved "away" from Bodybuilding and Fitness for a while as I created 30-something sections and focused more on entertainment and fun than fitness. I think we made a lot of friendships that way and had some good times, but we are moving back towards more of a focus on Bodybuilding and Fitness. Of course the bodybuilding sections were always there, but we didn't use them as much.

 

I've made a conscious effort to bring those sections back and along with help from Zack, Troy, VeggiePrincess, xveganjoshx, and a bunch of others, we're bringing the muscle back in town around this joint!

 

I look forward to the future to see how the new set-up looks.

[Sir Veganism]

Again, I would recommend to not make your own bulletin software. I would recommend use some new great forum softwares out such as VBulletin, Phpbb3, and Invision Power Board. There's no reason to attempt to code a bulletin board software youself, which will probally turn out barely ideal, no offence.

[Kon]

unless you're paying like +$15,000

[xveganjoshx]

I had to remind people many times that the forum in some way is a reflection of me

This is problematic, IMO. The new board should be more focused on everyone instead of circling around Robert Cheeke (which it tends to seem like it does at times). No hate intended bro, I just think that this site should be more about the many people who are involved in vegan bodybuilding and fitness rather than Robert Cheeke and some other people who are into vegan bodybuilding and fitness.

[Zack]

I had to remind people many times that the forum in some way is a reflection of me

This is problematic, IMO. The new board should be more focused on everyone instead of circling around Robert Cheeke (which it tends to seem like it does at times). No hate intended bro, I just think that this site should be more about the many people who are involved in vegan bodybuilding and fitness rather than Robert Cheeke and some other people who are into vegan bodybuilding and fitness.

 

I agree completely...

[VeganEssentials]

However calling someone a troll just because he asks questions that criticize the intent of vegans and/or animal rights activists, doesn't necessarily mean he is bashing vegans, flaming, or necessarily a troll.

 

No harm done in asking for opinions on unusual questions. I think that many people are just very used to be on the defensive, because through time on pretty much every board, there's been someone who comes on and asks obscure questions just to irk people or try to find a loophole in the logic of a vegan lifestyle. If someone REALLY wants to know the answer to something different or wants to debate the reasoning behind an issue, more power to them. I think that a lot of people (including myself) are just afraid of the old troll stuff like the "If we aren't supposed to eat animals, how come they're so tasty"? kind of crap that sprout up when there's an open invite to debate anything relating to veganism. So, depending on the question, I think it's totally fair to ask things off the normal track, but having an open debate forum can lead to a lot of junk to filter, which is just more work for the mods. Besides, it'd be easier to have a good Q&A sticky or section for all the common stuff because, even though many here are happy to help, having to reply to the same questions every week can get old after a while

[Richard]

If you want to criticize veganism and animal rights activists, you could go to an anti-vegan website. By all means ask questions about veganism, and I think that non-vegans should be welcome here, but to want to criticize veganism, this seems an odd place to do it.

[Guest]

It sucks but really we open ourselves to that criticism just like they are open for it. Sure we can kick them out but someone that wants to criticize vegans isn't gonna get as much of a rise on a I love vivisection forum.

[offense74]

If you want to criticize veganism and animal rights activists, you could go to an anti-vegan website. By all means ask questions about veganism, and I think that non-vegans should be welcome here, but to want to criticize veganism, this seems an odd place to do it.

I disagree

By the means of critique, I evolve. It's how it's always been like for me. I became a plant eater thanks to extended knowledge I got from critiquing my old view.

I'd say there are plenty of boards for people who like to call themselves vegans and are scared of change and challenge. I on the other hand thrive on knowledge and is therefore a firm believer in a plant based diet.

If one doesn't want to get involved in discussions the fundamentals of the lifestyle or whatever one wants to call it, then by all means don't...

 

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen...

[beforewisdom]

I wouldn't pay money to have someone build you forum software from scratch. Just upgrade to the latest version and if it doesn't have a feature people really want pay someone to modify the code.

 

I think the technical features of the current forum ( minus the bugs ) are enough.

 

Technical features ( or lack thereof ) have long since ceased being an issue for what makes a web forum a good web forum.

 

The dominant issues are administration. Either the admins are too heavy handed which spoils the enjoyment of discourse or they are too liberal, letting pissing contests spoil the atmosphere, letting trolls run rampant, or enforcing their own policies in self serving unfair ways.

 

The best admins run their boards and talk to their subscribers as someone throwing a dinner party in their private home would treat their guests.

 

You already do that.

 

Just make that debug message go away and I would be happy.

[Richard]

If you want to criticize veganism and animal rights activists, you could go to an anti-vegan website. By all means ask questions about veganism, and I think that non-vegans should be welcome here, but to want to criticize veganism, this seems an odd place to do it.

I disagree

By the means of critique, I evolve. It's how it's always been like for me. I became a plant eater thanks to extended knowledge I got from critiquing my old view.

I'd say there are plenty of boards for people who like to call themselves vegans and are scared of change and challenge. I on the other hand thrive on knowledge and is therefore a firm believer in a plant based diet.

If one doesn't want to get involved in discussions the fundamentals of the lifestyle or whatever one wants to call it, then by all means don't...

 

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen...

 

Well, to me it's like having a fans of Nintendo forum, and having a section for complaining about fans of Nintendo. Just seems like... why come to this forum to do it, if you don't like Nintendo, don't come to a Nintendo forum. It's not to do with not being open to criticism. I am criticized all the time in day to day life, I don't need to come to a vegan forum to read people's criticisms of veganism. I just don't think it's a valuable thing to have on the forum, and ultimately it would just be a place full of intense arguments anyway.

[veggieprincess]

If you want to criticize veganism and animal rights activists, you could go to an anti-vegan website. By all means ask questions about veganism, and I think that non-vegans should be welcome here, but to want to criticize veganism, this seems an odd place to do it.

I disagree

By the means of critique, I evolve. It's how it's always been like for me. I became a plant eater thanks to extended knowledge I got from critiquing my old view.

I'd say there are plenty of boards for people who like to call themselves vegans and are scared of change and challenge. I on the other hand thrive on knowledge and is therefore a firm believer in a plant based diet.

If one doesn't want to get involved in discussions the fundamentals of the lifestyle or whatever one wants to call it, then by all means don't...

 

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen...

 

Well, to me it's like having a fans of Nintendo forum, and having a section for complaining about fans of Nintendo. Just seems like... why come to this forum to do it, if you don't like Nintendo, don't come to a Nintendo forum. It's not to do with not being open to criticism. I am criticized all the time in day to day life, I don't need to come to a vegan forum to read people's criticisms of veganism. I just don't think it's a valuable thing to have on the forum, and ultimately it would just be a place full of intense arguments anyway.

 

I get what your saying, but here's the other side of it Richard.

 

In my daily life, I am sometimes accused of being "argumentative", but that's not whats really going on.

 

Say I'm interested in a new supplement people are talking about. I might say to the sales guy, "I don't think I have any use for that. I don't see the benefit".

 

Now the salesperson might come back to me and say, "Lots of people have great results. Just try it". Now his argument was pretty weak, so he hasn't done a good job of convincing me to buy it. If I'm still curious I might give more arguments of why I don't want to buy it. Now he could say "fine" and walk away or he could keep trying to come at me an an angle that makes me want to buy it.

 

Sometimes when people argue, all they're saying is, "You haven't convinced me yet. Give me something else".

 

Some people have more of a "devils advocate" style of talking which isn't really arguing, its trying to get more info until they hear something that clicks. Because I have this kind of personality, I try to be more sympathetic with Non-Vegans that might seem to be putting down the lifestyle and everything else. If they clicked on this website, their was obvioulsy some interest in our lifestyle. It's our job to debunk all the myths and stereotypes that person has in their head without feeling like they are not welcome.

 

So the person that said a debating or Q&A about Veganism section wouldn't be a bad idea in my opinion. We could even preface the section by saying, "please don't take anything that's said here personally" or something like that.

[Richard]

As I said, questions are fine. He said he wants to criticize the intents of vegans and animal rights activists. Having a Q&A section would be a cool thing for people who are new to veganism and want to know more

Edited December 23, 2007 by Richard

[pelicanAndrew]

I really like reading peoples training logs and getting motivated through that. Also the sports and fitness and bodybuilding/weight lifting sections are big deals for me(and I really should post in them more). I read those more then I post in them, mainly because I have limited knowledge. I try to help where I can though!

[robert]

I had to remind people many times that the forum in some way is a reflection of me

This is problematic, IMO. The new board should be more focused on everyone instead of circling around Robert Cheeke (which it tends to seem like it does at times). No hate intended bro, I just think that this site should be more about the many people who are involved in vegan bodybuilding and fitness rather than Robert Cheeke and some other people who are into vegan bodybuilding and fitness.

 

I agree, and that is what we've been working on for the past year (check out the profiles section).

 

You have to understand the history of the website to know why it's mostly about me.

 

It was started 6 years ago, when Robbie Hazeley and I were the only known vegan bodybuilders and it was www.veganbodybuilder.com (ER ending) and was about me.

 

Over the years we've been expanding and it's a work in progress.

 

Trust me, I've been searching for marketable vegan bodybuilders all over the world for years!!!!! I've put in the effort, I just don't come up with much.

 

Topher was our Golden Boy for a year or two but has vanished from the scene.

 

Alex Dargatz was our next golden boy and is still featured in many photo galleries, on the main site, wrote articles, etc.

 

No offense is taken at all. I realize that it's still about Robert Cheeke, but as Ronnie Coleman says, "what have you done for me lately?"

 

I'm not asking that of you, but of anyone.

 

My goal is to tell stories and feature others.

 

Why do you think I'm so enthusiastic about all the new profiles? I've also been trying and trying and trying to get others to write articles but it's always just Me and Daywalker who want to write anything. Dr. Joe offered to write articles for our main site and was run off, so again, empty handed.

 

Trust me, I want to get away from Robert Cheeke too.

 

I have my own site after all, www.robertcheeke.com and about 4 other websites I run.

 

I just need more cooperation from the community to write articles, submit photos, submit profiles, share news, etc. and those invitations have been given out on a regular basis, even to the point that is seemed like I was begging for someone to contribute to get the focus off Me.

 

I hear you, in fact I think I even take it a step further. I'm just looking for others who are doing newsworthy things for this industry and I'd be happy as hell to share that.

 

Thanks for the feedback though, and I'm on it. I just need people to step up too.

[Zack]

I had to remind people many times that the forum in some way is a reflection of me

This is problematic, IMO. The new board should be more focused on everyone instead of circling around Robert Cheeke (which it tends to seem like it does at times). No hate intended bro, I just think that this site should be more about the many people who are involved in vegan bodybuilding and fitness rather than Robert Cheeke and some other people who are into vegan bodybuilding and fitness.

 

I agree, and that is what we've been working on for the past year (check out the profiles section).

 

You have to understand the history of the website to know why it's mostly about me.

 

It was started 6 years ago, when Robbie Hazeley and I were the only known vegan bodybuilders and it was www.veganbodybuilder.com (ER ending) and was about me.

 

Over the years we've been expanding and it's a work in progress.

 

Trust me, I've been searching for marketable vegan bodybuilders all over the world for years!!!!! I've put in the effort, I just don't come up with much.

 

Topher was our Golden Boy for a year or two but has vanished from the scene.

 

Alex Dargatz was our next golden boy and is still featured in many photo galleries, on the main site, wrote articles, etc.

 

No offense is taken at all. I realize that it's still about Robert Cheeke, but as Ronnie Coleman says, "what have you done for me lately?"

 

I'm not asking that of you, but of anyone.

 

My goal is to tell stories and feature others.

 

Why do you think I'm so enthusiastic about all the new profiles? I've also been trying and trying and trying to get others to write articles but it's always just Me and Daywalker who want to write anything. Dr. Joe offered to write articles for our main site and was run off, so again, empty handed.

 

Trust me, I want to get away from Robert Cheeke too.

 

I have my own site after all, www.robertcheeke.com and about 4 other websites I run.

 

I just need more cooperation from the community to write articles, submit photos, submit profiles, share news, etc. and those invitations have been given out on a regular basis, even to the point that is seemed like I was begging for someone to contribute to get the focus off Me.

 

I hear you, in fact I think I even take it a step further. I'm just looking for others who are doing newsworthy things for this industry and I'd be happy as hell to share that.

 

Thanks for the feedback though, and I'm on it. I just need people to step up too.

 

very cool.

[robert]

This is genuine too.

 

Seriously.

 

Ask Richard.

 

Ask Jessifly.

 

Ask those who have really listened to my plans.

 

For example, you'll notice a ton of Profiles on the main site from people who aren't on the forum.

 

That is because I've been searching high and low all over the internet and in my community for awesome vegan athletes.

 

Please understand, I am trying to feature others, in fact I made the bold statement to have 100 profiles by March 08!

 

But as far as the forum goes........I NOW realize what I think xveganjoshx was saying, that perhaps I post too much so my name is always on there.

 

The forum is open to anyone to post as much or as little as they want. I have a lot to share.

 

Often I think potter and I post too much and I think many would agree, and some people post too little based on how much info they have to offer, but my responsibility to the forum community is to keep it active, post regional events, news, and encourage people here who are attempting new challenges.

 

I think some of you are starting to figure me out and I really am moving away from RC on the www.veganbodybuilding.com website. It takes time and effort to get lots of new athletes and articles up there.

 

Nobody knows this more than Richard.

 

If you have any questions about my own sincerity or authenticity, please ask him. We work closely together and we're working on some neat projects to reach as many people as we can and appeal to as many people as we can.

 

But I can totally appreciate your comments about too much RC. I agree and even feel a little awkward about it.

 

More profiles and articles to come. I'm going to track down Dr. Joe to have him write some stuff, and I'll try to get more training stuff from Daywalker and VeganEssentials for the main site too, as well as stuff from Mac Danzig, and others.

 

It's a work in progress, but we're on it

 

Thanks and I appreciate the concern, it's a valid one.

[xveganjoshx]

I had to remind people many times that the forum in some way is a reflection of me

This is problematic, IMO. The new board should be more focused on everyone instead of circling around Robert Cheeke (which it tends to seem like it does at times). No hate intended bro, I just think that this site should be more about the many people who are involved in vegan bodybuilding and fitness rather than Robert Cheeke and some other people who are into vegan bodybuilding and fitness.

 

I agree, and that is what we've been working on for the past year (check out the profiles section).

 

You have to understand the history of the website to know why it's mostly about me.

 

It was started 6 years ago, when Robbie Hazeley and I were the only known vegan bodybuilders and it was www.veganbodybuilder.com (ER ending) and was about me.

 

Over the years we've been expanding and it's a work in progress.

 

Trust me, I've been searching for marketable vegan bodybuilders all over the world for years!!!!! I've put in the effort, I just don't come up with much.

 

Topher was our Golden Boy for a year or two but has vanished from the scene.

 

Alex Dargatz was our next golden boy and is still featured in many photo galleries, on the main site, wrote articles, etc.

 

No offense is taken at all. I realize that it's still about Robert Cheeke, but as Ronnie Coleman says, "what have you done for me lately?"

 

I'm not asking that of you, but of anyone.

 

My goal is to tell stories and feature others.

 

Why do you think I'm so enthusiastic about all the new profiles? I've also been trying and trying and trying to get others to write articles but it's always just Me and Daywalker who want to write anything. Dr. Joe offered to write articles for our main site and was run off, so again, empty handed.

 

Trust me, I want to get away from Robert Cheeke too.

 

I have my own site after all, www.robertcheeke.com and about 4 other websites I run.

 

I just need more cooperation from the community to write articles, submit photos, submit profiles, share news, etc. and those invitations have been given out on a regular basis, even to the point that is seemed like I was begging for someone to contribute to get the focus off Me.

 

I hear you, in fact I think I even take it a step further. I'm just looking for others who are doing newsworthy things for this industry and I'd be happy as hell to share that.

 

Thanks for the feedback though, and I'm on it. I just need people to step up too.

 

This is awesome. I'm glad you've realized this and have been taking steps toward this.

 

I realize I offer alot of criticism at times, but always remember it is always positive. This lifestyle is so positive and constructive, especially in the midst of so many lifestyles I see around me that are destructive or unfulfilling.

 

I love the concept of vegan bodybuilding. I want this shit to blow up. I want vegan bodybuilding to take over the map. And for that to happen we need alot of peeps reppin it. I'm glad you've realized this and are making it happen.

 

To paraphrase Kanye and RC: "And if they hate then let 'em hate and watch the vegans pile up".

x1,000,000

 

Now excuse me, I have to go squat.

[robert]

"I love you man" as xdarthveganx would say.

 

I'm off to the gym shortly too! Back attack come get some!

 

Anyway.................now back to the technical aspects of what we need to change or focus on.

 

I talked to my programmer/engineer today and he's excited to read through these ideas and start working on writing software.

 

Again, it may be 8 months away, but we're working on it.

 

I DO hope to FIX the DEGUG thing pretty soon though!!! It really annoys me!!!!!!

 

"Watch the Vegan Bodybuilders Pile Up, Baby!"

[Richard]

Yahr, well rob has asked many times for people to submit articles to be included on the site, and we are featuring any news items which are relevant, not just to do with Robert. Also Rob is aiming to have a very large number of profiles in the next few months. But Rob can't make people contribute to the site, the opportunity is there for people who want to though