medman

Sosso makes some good points. You would do well to appreciate what the therapeutic index represents. Also, you still claimed medications are made of arsenic and rat poison, which is laughably outrageous. Sosso also pointed out the same thing I tried to in my last post - that you noticed that visibly sick or hospitalized people look unwell. You attribute this to them taking medication. I attribute this to what is known in statistics as "sample bias" - in your mind, the representative sample of people you think of as "medication takers" are all people you could tell were visibly unwell. While those unwell people are indeed taking medication (after all, they are unwell), so are many, many, many people whom you cannot visually identify. Out on the street, you can't tell who looks healthy but is still on medication (for example, I take meds for my acid reflux, yet can be seen running and biking around the city, training in the gym, looking healthy). Therefore, because your "on medication" group contains only people who are visibly unwell, and not any of the people who take meds but look great, your sample is biased and you concluded that all people who take medication are on death's door. That's the exact same error made by people who say all vegans are scrawny pale women with anemia, because the one person they knew in high school who was a vegan was a scrawny pale woman with anemia.

There are still vegans who are in danger of having high cholesterol - diet is only one part of the lipid picture. There are a number of disorders of lipid metabolism, some of which are relatively common, which can cause high cholesterol even in the absence of a dietary intake. It's always a good idea to have your cholesterol checked, because it's such a significant risk factor if it turns out you have a problem. Same goes for blood sugar...a good quality diet doesn't make you immune, it just decreases your probability of developing a problem. I agree with veganluv, B-12 and D are probably the biggest two I'd ask about, followed by ferritin (which shows if you're developing an iron deficiency). Beyond that, most other tests (like TSH for thyroid function) should be at the discretion of your doctor, if he or she has any reason to suspect there could be a potential issue. There are plenty of other things that will automatically get checked off when you get your blood work done, so I would just make sure you mention B12, D, and ferritin. As for general checkup advice, my biggest suggestion would be to ask about anything you're worried about. Have you felt more tired than usual lately? Has there been a change in your bowel movements? Weight gain or loss with no significant change in your diet/exercise routine? Anything going on in your body that has caused you concern is worth mentioning; if it is "nothing to be worried about", let your doctor make that determination.

The photos to go along with my "Medman, the Ant Man" training log (http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=21098). 2 months ago - 124 lbs. http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p437/mbene085/StrongLifts/Photoon2009-12-02at0245.jpg http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p437/mbene085/StrongLifts/Photoon2009-12-02at02452.jpg http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p437/mbene085/StrongLifts/Photoon2009-12-02at0246.jpg http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p437/mbene085/StrongLifts/Photoon2009-12-02at02462.jpg http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p437/mbene085/StrongLifts/Photoon2009-12-02at0247.jpg Now - 127 lbs http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p437/mbene085/StrongLifts/Photoon2010-03-04at23152.jpg http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p437/mbene085/StrongLifts/Photoon2010-03-04at23162.jpg http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p437/mbene085/StrongLifts/Photoon2010-03-04at2317.jpg http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p437/mbene085/StrongLifts/Photoon2010-03-04at2312.jpg http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p437/mbene085/StrongLifts/Photoon2010-03-04at23142.jpg I've made huge improvements in my lifts, and I wish I had a way to take photos of my legs, because the biggest gains have probably been there - I started out with those unmistakeable marathoner's legs I think this is not bad for a 2-month period (1 month of P90X, 1 month of StrongLifts which is what I'm sticking with from here on in!).

beforewisdom, the reason I suggested ferritin is that it represent's the body's reserve of iron (more direct measurements of iron can be normal even if the person is deficient). Blood calcium is good to know for a variety of reasons, none of which have to do with osteoporosis. Many of the things you look for in a blood test aren't just "current" circulating levels, they're markers of the bigger picture going on in the body. And Vegan Joe, a BMD (bone mineral density) scan is of course even more useful if you have a previous one to compare to, but in and of itself, it can suggest whether someone might be osteopenic (having low mineral density, which isn't identical to osteoporosis but is related).

This is especially funny to me because "hipster" is such an arbitrary label...what makes someone a hipster? There should be guidelines. And you don't need to care about animal rights or the environment to be a vegan. Everyone has their own reasons. Someone could be a vegan simply because they find eating animal products gross (and I actually know someone like this), or because they want a cholesterol-free diet. And they would and should be welcome in our community, regardless of whether or not they have any moral reasons behind their decision. If you ask me, energy spent on hating anyone is energy wasted.

IYM, I never said we give medications that are bad for the patient's health - I was saying that there are plenty of treatments and medications which neither improve nor harm the health of the patient (and therefore aren't specifically "good for your health"), but vastly improve their quality of life, because you were talking about morphine at the time. Morphine does not make anyone healthier. What it does is give a whole lot of people in agonizing pain a way to enjoy their life more fully, whether it's temporary recovery from surgery, or at the end of their life when they are suffering pain from a terminal illness. You say medications contain arsenic and rat poison - WTF? Yes, you joined a study and experienced a side effect (myalgia) of a medication to prevent osteoporosis, then decided it was clearly designed by the devil. What about the 70% of older men who die within a few weeks of falling and breaking their hip? THOSE are the men the pill was designed to help, and it may very well save many lives. And osteoporosis is one thing that cannot always be blamed on a person's choices - for example, we only recently learned that 80% of Canadians are chronically vitamin D deficient. A Canadian man who is 75 now never knew his bones were going to be weakened by impaired calcium absorption due to our country's low UV levels. If the risk of myalgia is, say, 5% (as it is for certain medications), many osteopenic people would gladly take it because of the extremely high mortality (50-70%) and morbidity associated with hip fractures in the elderly. IYM, *PLEASE* stop making statements about things you know nothing about. Doctors CURE things every day. In my post a day or two ago, I even gave you a short list of things that we cure on a daily basis. Saying that we "never dare say we offer cures" is genuinely offensive, both because of how little this shows that you know about anything medical, and because of the conviction with which you state such a boldfaced lie. As for "never seeing someone taking medicine and looking healthy" - I assume that you are checking everyone's medication list which they have stapled to their forehead as they walk around. I mean, come on, can you even take yourself seriously when you say such a thing? As though you know which people are on medications. You've probably had a thousand rosy-cheeked joggers run by you in the street who were treating a yeast infection, or are on an antacid for their acid reflux, or are taking NSAIDs for a slightly pulled tendon. You probably assume they must be "drug-free" to be so healthy and active. As somebody who actually DOES get to see hundreds of people's medication lists when I get to meet them face to face, I'd like to think my opinion might actually carry some weight on this matter.

Thanks, chewy! Talked to my gym buddy and we're stoked to start the dips, barbell rows, and weighted chin ups/pull ups And don't worry, I'm definitely not about to start cutting calories!

CBC (which will include things like hemoglobin), and make sure you have your ferritin checked too.

Vegan Joe - Chewy - thanks for the advice! I know I should switch to barbell rows soon/now, I'm just a little intimidated by them, and am concerned my spectacularly poor flexibility might be an issue. But I guess I have to put those fears aside and actually TRY them, as I might not have any issues at all in the end. Pushups are a breeze, I can easily bang out 20-30, even after having gone all out on bench. I didn't recall reading about switching pushups to dips - I thought the next step was weighted pushups? I like the idea of switching to dips, though, because pushups felt way too similar to bench, and are done on the same day. Thanks so much for the recommendations, though - hopefully with your advice I'll be able to get stronger faster (and progression is already so fast and so easy as a beginner)! Coroho - thanks! I've never been a fan of keeping track of calories...whether I was doing my marathon training or weightlifting, I find my body lets me know when it needs more fuel for my training. I've been starving since I started StrongLifts, and I always eat when I'm hungry, so I'm definitely eating big these days!

When I first started exploring the world of weight training a couple of years ago, I was a vegan marathoner, weighing in at a meager 106 lbs (48 kilos) at 5'6". I wasn't consistent in the gym, and always made excuses, until recently when I did a month straight of P90X and got hooked on the rush of adrenaline that I never quite got from running and biking (though I do love me some runner's high!). I convinced a friend to start StrongLifts with me one month ago, and have been very consistent with it (and plan to continue this way). My photo log: http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=21112&start=0 So where am I now, after 1 month of SL? 127 lbs, getting stronger and bigger every day. Deadlift: 1x5 @ 135 lbs (BW+10) Squat: 5x5 @ 125 lbs (BW) Bench Press: 5x5 @ 110 lbs (BW-15) OH Press: 5x5 @ 70 lbs Chin-ups (unassisted, unweighted): PR of 13, 10, 8 this week Inverted Rows: PR of 16, 12, 10 this week Working on improving my "Ant Man" status - soon to be able to deadlift, squat AND bench above my bodyweight for a full 5x5! As for my bodyweight, I had made it to 124 with my old routine over the course of a couple of years...in the month since I started StrongLifts, I've gone from 124 to 127. I honestly don't know why I never did this before. Loading up a full sized plate on each end for deadlifts today and seeing people stare at the little marathoner deadlifting with perfect form was quite fun. This has been such a fun intro to powerlifting that I don't think I'll be able to stop! I had let myself become convinced that as a natural marathoner build, I could never and would never be strong. Now I'm asking myself when I hope to be overhead pressing above my weight As for supplements, I've been going with 2.5-5g of creatine ethyl ester with my pre-workout meal, 12g of EAAs (split up into 6g while working out, 6g immediately afterward), and a half-serving of Vega before bed.

Happy Birthday!!

Ryan, stop using logic. It's a foreign language to most. This is not an insult to any board members - I'm actually thinking more about patients I see, like one who admitted to eating nothing but "tea, crackers, goat cheese, and water" and was on welfare for her disability, but was spending god knows how much on a "Chinese herbalist" in addition to seeing medical doctors (which are free here!). You have to ask...is this the most effective way to spend her money in an attempt to get healthy? Oh, and she was a smoker. Fancy Chinese herbalist and cigarettes vs nicorette and a salad every day...her words when describing why she was seeing the herbalist were "I'm trying to do everything I can to get better, you know?" That was one of those real-life moments where I felt the need to face-palm.

I will change the advice from "see a doctor" to "see a competent doctor". I saw two people with fibro in the pain clinic today. One was in serious distress from an acute multi-symptom episode. My staff (the Canadian term for 'attending') didn't blow it off as "just fibro". Neither should any doctor worth his/her salt. So you must first find someone who looks at the big picture; then you must also be willing to accept the fact that this recent symptom may genuinely be related to/caused by your fibro, if that is the doctor's educated opinion. Just because you have fibro, doesn't mean it's because of fibro...but it also doesn't mean it has nothing to do with it, either. Important questions the doctor may ask could include "What was involved in this detox you did?" Sometimes some scary shit is in "natural" products. The fact that you did something so unusual immediately prior to the start of your waning appetite immediately red flags it as a possible cause.

It is now. I win! PS - it's really cool to see the range here from old hats to new converts.

Ryan and Rob both make very good points. I will add another response for you to think about, IYM - what you're describing as never being "cured" are chronic conditions, which by definition, don't go away! What about acute conditions? From gonorrhea to gastroenteritis, peptic ulcer disease to Guillain–Barré syndrome, there are countless conditions which ARE cured by allopathic medicine. Add to this the number of self-limiting but deadly conditions (like acute respiratory distress syndrome, or viral encephalitis) which require "supportive care". In these cases, the treatment (like putting someone on a ventilator or ECMO for ARDS) is not a "cure", but allows the person to survive long enough to heal. And here's something else to think about...let's say you're an active person, playing squash, running 5k in the morning, eating well every day of your life. There may come a time when your knees are riddled with osteoarthritis from having been used so much. If you get your knee replacement surgery, you could be the only 70 year-old on the tennis court vs hobbling around the backyard in pain instead. And knee replacement surgery is indeed considered "curative" for osteoarthritis in that joint - it will never, ever be coming back

I agree. But I think FH's point was more that ionizing water does add anything useful...I don't think he was suggesting that making sure your water has as little 'added' to it as possible is a bad thing, just that the hocus pocus of ionizing it or oxygenating it doesn't do anything. I'm jealous that you have fresh spring water!

Pu intended?

Obviously, you shouldn't be bringing them to the hospital at all. They were doing just fine where they were.

Clod Fission, I have also switched to green tea before training. I find it gives me the "smoothest" energy boost...everything else gives me a temporary high and then a crash similar to what chrisjs described. That, or if I also need a pre-workout snack, I take one of the Clif Bars that has caffeine in it (peanut toffee buzz...hot damn that tastes good).

Good news! I think I figured out what part of my technique was causing the issue. A couple of days ago, I tried to pay a ton of attention to what I was doing when I was feeling my IT band rolling. And I realized I've been driving upward with my right leg more than my left. This was pushing my hip slightly to the left as I came up out of the squat, and so my glutes on my left had to contract hard to stabilize my pelvis. I saw my right foot was also very very slightly in front of my left foot, exacerbating the problem. Today when I squatted (5x5 at 120 lbs - just 7 pounds below my body weight!), I was extra careful to have a perfectly symmetric stance, and that I was driving upward with both legs equally. And guess what? The problem was completely gone! I did a whole bunch of hip/glute warmups beforehand which I could tell helped as well. Looking forward to wednesday, when I'll be attempting my 5x5 at bodyweight!

Just wondering how far back this lifestyle goes for our active board members. I'll go first: Vegan for 7 years, vegetarian for over 10.

Welcome from Ottawa! Glad to have another Canuck 'round here.

People hold different values, but they also often don't genuinely appreciate the consequences of their actions. Not to say that people don't have a right to smoke, but I haven't met any patients who are happy about their emphysema, COPD, or lung cancer. The story I most often hear is "I wish I had never started smoking, but it was so common back then, it was just the thing to do." I haven't heard anyone say "This was totally worth missing out on being able to play with my grandkids."

Wow. Adena gets strong indeed! Keep up the awesome work!!

Yeah, sorry if that came off as angry toward you at all. The ludicrousness of the 'argument' just brings me to a point that I don't think I can even try to make a rational statement like yours.