Gyre

Sorry double post.

Mu.

ConanVegiBarbarian you make a great observation. We have all this talk about health and fitness and then we are a forum about bodybuilding which has little to do with REAL fitness and health. This is a veganbodybuilding forum though so it is part of the deal. Indeed with the idea of competition you kind of lose way of what is actually the point of what you are doing and maybe have a personal agenda within something that has none of it's own. Kind of like having a poetry contest. I have been looking into training at the Yantai Shaolin temple but the tuition and board keeps going up in the thousands, it also looks like they have changed things to accommodate for westerners within the training which sucks because then we work at our pace not theirs.

I like how you can give an informed opinion with logical reasoning and many openings for others to share their opinions and the only guy who comments on anything is the one who talks about animal rights with great zeal(and offense74). Just putting that out there, it is the same almost anywhere I post actual content for the mind. Please apply what others have posted so you can respond in a manner that is on the subject of the discussion.(instead of picking and choosing, or at least have an opinion about something other than what you are interested in or take defense from if you are getting involved. Because it seems you either have to challenge someone or be silly to have a real discussion.) Dude, veganpotter, when I am talking about the mental social structure of the identity of being vegan and the use of that personal attachment(which it seems you do have) please contribute to the conversation more than: "If people thought thoroughly and with a clear mind they way I think you're recommending they wouldn't compromise animals and the ideas vegans promote just to hold powder inside a pill. Sure there are many things in life that probably aren't all that vegan but they don't tend to be really simple things to avoid that compromise others that are actually trying to follow as much of a vegan life as they can Ann Coulter." -Veganpotter I want your content, yourrssss. My response was: "So then what makes you a vegan? Is it hand or foot or any other part belonging to a person?" -me Your response? " I think its doing your best to not pay for the death of animals for your own good. If an animal needs to die to keep you alive for a surgery then you've gotta decide that on your own and I think would be justifiable either way. If an animal needs to die from animal testing because you want to make sure your nail polish would be safe to drink then you aren't a vegan. I do my best to try not to buy or consume things that have animal part in them...and I don't buy leather shoes just to throw them away and keep the laces...that would be pointless...as is buying a supplement in a gelatin capsule then throwing it out...neither of them are all that necessary." -veganpotter I never even brought up animals... While I got an answer you may not be aware of what I am getting at which is why I stated that those were valid points, valid but still a little too red herring for me. I don't doubt your commitment to animal protection and fair treatment, that is great, but if you don't understand the question enough to be involved in the discussion and not just your side of the story then ask me what I mean. I mean there must be more to your thought pattern then accusations, animal rights and what you do to help. This is what I meant by the Ron Paul comment as he talks about freedom and it's perspectual faucets and backs it up with a standard of thought(the constitution) while all the others talk about are terrorists, 911, and illegal immigrants. So while I talk (essentially) about the freedom of non-attachment with my standard being logic and compassion you talk about those that do not follow the way(terrorists), the event with the capsules(911) and people who say they are vegan but dont follow the rules(illegal immigrants). Please at least argue with my process of thought if it differs from you and tell me why your actual input not an external outsource of your energy. Do not mistake kindness with weakness. Your accomplishments as a vegan mean as much (to me) as a person who raises money for the republican party and this has been my argument. My perspective is there is no difference because you both have an agenda. I don't think even you can live up to your expectations of a vegan, maybe you can but only if you are the creator of the entire idea of consumption for survival. If your ideas of what a vegan is sprouted from animal rights then there is the rest of the world of thought on the matter, I would like to hear your opinion. As for the division problem I was referring that if you cut the same thing up into a million pieces it will no longer function as it once did. I would wonder what your opinion would be of the concept of a feral man would be concerning animal rights. I just had the thought that makes a hell of a difference: You take this stuff personally. I do not. I am not a vegan, you are the construct of what you think a vegan is, I am not. Please, Please, Please review what my argument has been and give me your opinion about the actual subject matter without bringing anything personal to the conversation. Leave your ego's at the door along with your guns, you can talk without arms. But you have the right bear arms if you live in the U.S. OK that was a lame joke.

You know DV you made a good point: "Those who don't stick around for long tend to be older and/or educated and/or professional and/or in a long-term relationship. Just my observations. Why? Because those people don't need the Vegan Police telling them why they are unacceptable to "the cause" anymore than an intelligent catholic needs a priest telling him/her how they've sinned. " But they are still identifying with being a "Vegan". It is pleasant to hear someone finally say "I'm not vegan" -DV I am also glad you made the connection of religion and being vegan. Then again if a catholic keeps sinning why are they a catholic? Because they think it is good? If something is good it is instantly evil in the same sense both must be invited to the dinner table. This idea follows to anything that is "good". This could easily be explored within each of us. "It definitely is which is why I had so many people emailing me privately and supporting me." -veganpotter If those that support you do not have the integrity to say anything they should not support anyone else but themselves. If you keep dividing things you will find you are alone in the end. This is not a bash just the outcome of division and then that .00000012 is just the hope for change. You make a good argument too Veganessentials. I would also agree that supplements are not a need. H2O is a need, Oxygen is a need, substinance is a need(unless you follow certain practices). I usually don't get involved with groups with agenda's because they throw out all real life issues for the human created social mental structures. Ethics are for those who cannot see things as they are and need a blanket to see things better. if it takes this to motivate you then at least explore what tools you are working with and where they came from. Ethics eventually break down where as the truth stays centered even if it is distorted, those with ears to listen and eyes to see will.We must never forget that our ancestors were meat eaters, domesticated animals and cultivated the current genus of agriculture today. Do not take for granted the position you have today. My arguement stands as to what a "vegan" is: "I suppose the only real flaw in the whole vegan movement (and I can understand why a "movement" would seem necessary as a response and for some a defense) is the identification of a vegan in the same way that someone would call themselves an American. I do not get normally get involved in groups with agenda's for this reason. If you saw two children fighting over what part of the sandbox was what, would you get involved?"-Me Further explanation: "What I was kind of getting at is that nobody is really vegan even if you eat like a vegan. Main word is LIKE a vegan. An idea must go through the same scutiny as any other. If you have not put your ideas to the same task as any other than you cannot call them your own and usually if you do it becomes a new idea, nifty keen! So if you think you are anything you can only live up to being LIKE the thing in your brain." -Me As for being successful if you identify with success then there is a pause because for the moment you think you are done. It never ends there is no success until you die, You are the winner!. There is something beyond vegan, something beyond social structure. All questions lead to more questions. If you have the money to support a company that you feel gives a positive outlook of your agenda then you are still getting something out of it and have the intent of getting something out of it.(This is part of a much larger idea In the same way I think of what I post here, I do not want anything out of my words they hold their own, but I also walk the fine line of gain by posting. In this way some people would leave this forum I suppose if they felt they were trying to gain something.) I also would like to know: How many of you "vegans" would know how to survive in an environment unknown to you and keep your vegan lifestyle? (oh, and survive) Just for the record I am not for anyone or against anyone/anything.

You could create a goal that is larger than the competition that way the competition is just a pebble on your path. Survival is a good one, think of all the ways you may need to survive that involve your body and train for that. Like jumping over things, lifting to things, climbing to things, running from/to things, rolling to things, twisting and pulling and pushing things(sometimes all at once). I say this in the manner that SPETZNAZ trains for the occasion that they have to lift someone who is hanging off a cliff to safety while you yourself are hanging.The competition will be cake.

I was making a joke only with the last ...zealot, because you didn't see who made the original comment and passed it to me. I do not know you in any intimate way other than maybe reading your posts around the forum when i see them. That doesn't mean I can't act jovial with others, especially during a serious discussion, especially with people I have not met.

I actually didn't say anything about zealots and animal rights vegans in first place I was just commenting on the use and response you gave. I dont think I am twisting anything by saying that your form of zealot in your mind holds you to whatever you would think of being a zealot.(basically I am asking why it is not cool to call them zealots, what makes zeal a negative aspect) You just couldn't wait to stuff a word like disingenuous in my face could you? .... zealot LOL.

I was kinda referring to Ron Pauls straight answers and questions then the opposition just dancing around one subject matter. But I agree with you, he is a neat candidate. Just try not to make your diet your religion. if you are offended by being called a zealot then that would mean you identify with being as such, then you have to deal with your own form of the word. This is what I am talking about. I would hope that once we are done with these "Ethics" we can throw away it's primitive toys, but it is not without the journey. Just remember that there is a raw person out there cursing vegans because they allow the brutal cultivation of fruits and veggies.

Okay, valid points. After this discussion I kinda know how Ron Paul feels.

The funny thing is the Ok muhammad was an internal thought and I ended up typing it in thought. So then what makes you a vegan? Is it hand or foot or any other part belonging to a person?

What I was kind of getting at is that nobody is really vegan even if you eat like a vegan. Main word is LIKE a vegan. An idea must go through the same scutiny as any other. If you have not put your ideas to the same task as any other than you cannot call them your own and usually if you do it becomes a new idea, nifty keen! So if you think you are anything you can only live up to being LIKE the thing in your brain. The only thing we can ask anyone to do about the whole vegan lifestyle change is ask them to consider the same thought process as I have described.

I find it interesting that you divided mental health from physical health. Western medicine really has a hard time with considering them to be related. It is all connected my friend.

Easy: Shaolin Masters. Spetznaz, although that may only be part of some kind of blood sport. Surfing is a good one. If they could combine surfing and soccer that would be awesome. Maybe Kung fu and other sports kinda like kung fu soccer.

At first I thought this thread was about my post: My intuition towards eating and consumption is not based on what lifestyle you choose, what you wear, what you eat or how many laps you can or cannot do. It is all about energy. So from my perspective you all look the same way you feel towards someone who is not your direct representation of the Vegan. Both in actuality and demeanor. In my humble opinion there is only the moment and then again that is no-thing. In the way we talk about this and that it can be hard for others to understand you, it is not our differences that hold us apart because we all generally feel good about what we are doing most of the time. Where others see fruits and veggies I see molecules and organic structures of energies in motion, same with meat and rocks. When I observe people acting against this I also wonder why they wish not to see the splendor of it all. In this way I can create an even smaller circle around myself and maybe others I have come into contact with over the years who feel the same. Yet we are all the same. What chains of memory are you following? What is your nature? Either to incite change or wield and woe do you not have some faith in what you are doing? In what way are you not a merchant? If you are selling faith in veganism do not be cross with others of the same faith. back at another thread like "People who are not healthy giving advice" or something like that so I stayed away to see everyone's discussion. I suppose the only real flaw in the whole vegan movement (and I can understand why a "movement" would seem necessary as a response and for some a defense) is the identification of a vegan in the same way that someone would call themselves an American. I do not get normally get involved in groups with agenda's for this reason. If you saw two children fighting over what part of the sandbox was what, would you get involved? I was approached by a man who wanted me to donate money for a spade and nutering of domestic pets. My response was in the key of species manipulation and false dominance over animals. Another man's response to my statement was that he works and barely has enough to get by because he wants his children to have pets. Maybe he should think about feeding his children more than adding more variables to his situation. How many of you "vegans" would know how to survive in an environment unknown to you and keep your vegan lifestyle? (oh, and survive) So when painting your identity how many colors do you use and what mediums do you work in? Metaphors!!! This is all for discussion purposes and contemplation. My miracles are that I eat when hungry and sleep when tired.

My intuition towards eating and consumption is not based on what lifestyle you choose, what you wear, what you eat or how many laps you can or cannot do. It is all about energy. So from my perspective you all look the same way you feel towards someone who is not your direct representation of the Vegan. Both in actuality and demeanor. In my humble opinion there is only the moment and then again that is no-thing. In the way we talk about this and that it can be hard for others to understand you, it is not our differences that hold us apart because we all generally feel good about what we are doing most of the time. Where others see fruits and veggies I see molecules and organic structures of energies in motion, same with meat and rocks. When I observe people acting against this I also wonder why they wish not to see the splendor of it all. In this way I can create an even smaller circle around myself and maybe others I have come into contact with over the years who feel the same. Yet we are all the same. What chains of memory are you following? What is your nature? Either to incite change or wield and woe do you not have some faith in what you are doing? In what way are you not a merchant? If you are selling faith in veganism do not be cross with others of the same faith.

Sweet dude! Spin those chakras!

Surya Yoga contains all forms of yoga. The same is said of martial arts except martial arts is most often considered a sport. If you consider life a sport I would tend to agree with that statement. Surya Yoga is Sun Yoga essentially. You live like the sun and love like the sun. I should make a whole new topic on Sun gazing.

I train because the motions within the gung fu system are natural to the human body and its functions. I also train because the comprehension I receive from tai chi gung fu is more profound and insightful than forms of life education employed by our education system. My question would be: HOw has martial arts made an impact in your life?

I am a ten minute bike ride away from fresh dates fallen straight off the palm and slightly baked by the sun. MMmmmm...

In what forms and how do you meditate? Why or why do you not seek enlightenment?How do you? Thank you.

I miss you guys too. I wish I could have adventures there as much as here that way it would be equal.

I can actually believe this was not mentioned before. Breathe, number one thing, in through your nose and diaphram into your lungs second, out nose or mouth from lungs then diaphram. Also ask yourself what the words: Here and Now mean to you. For me if I am getting overworked about anything in general or I am thinking down a path that is not really going to help things like envy or greed or lust I take a breath and say those two words to myself. It brings me here: the state of actual reality and now: the presence of that reality in my mind. This is all so I can better understand what I am doing and how I am feeling.

I would say ultimate Tai Chi would win because you would always be in the right place at the right time and never use more than four ounces of pressure, that and they could fix whatever they did to you within their flow. Myabe as a back there could be muai Tai or maybe Kuntao. Dont count out capoeira either because it is very unpredictable where as muai tai and kuntao can be. Tai chi though can be adapted to any situation with any healing motion that can be charged with energy to deal a powerful blow of varied levels.

Hola chicas and chicos I am new to the forum and brought here by folks from Oregon and Seattle. I live in Arizona and have been vegan for many years and raw in the past while I worked at a restaurante called Rawsome! It is a joy to be here in seattle with xbillyx, ravi, hero, lizworld, jessifly on my visit. So yeah, I will post more about myself and stuff around me soon! Peace.