Vegans short on 3 nutritents Meat eaters short on 7

[beforewisdom]

This is a snippet from an archvied vegan health newsletter Dr. Michael Greger used to write. It is a few years old, but it is still worth checking out. Please keep in mind the report is about what vegans actually do and not about what they can do as far as getting what they need.

 

From

http://www.drgreger.org/september2003.html

 

Vegan Diets Deficient in Three Nutrients? Well, Meateaters are Deficient in Seven!

 

The latest data on the dietary intakes of vegans was just published last month.[1] The diets of about 100 vegans were recorded for a week and were found deficient in calcium, iodine and vitamin B12. Using the same standards, though, the standard American diet are deficient in 7 nutrients! The diet of your average American is not only also deficient in calcium and iodine, it's deficient in vitamin C, vitamin E, fiber, folate, and magnesium as well.[2]

 

Not only does the American public have over twice as many nutritional deficiencies in their diets, vegans were shown to have higher intakes of 16 out of the 19 nutrients studied, includeing calcium. The vegans were getting more than enough protein on average and three times more vitamin C, three times more vitamin E, three times more fiber. Vegans got twice the folate, twice the magnesium, twice the copper, twice the manganese.

 

And of course the vegans had twice the fruit and vegetable intake and half the saturated fat intake, meeting the new 2003 World Health Organization guidelines for fat intake and weight control.[3] Almost 2/3 of Americans are overweight.[4] In contrast, only 11% of the vegans were overweight. Almost one in three Americans are obese.[4] Zero of the 98 vegans in this study were obese.

 

So when a meateater asks you "Where you get your B12?" You can counter with "Where do you get your vitamin C, vitamin E, fiber, folate, and magnesium? And while you're at it, you can ask them how they keep their sodium, saturated fat, total fat and cholesterol intake under control (not to mention their weight).[5]

 

snip ....

 

REFERENCES

 

[1] Results from the German Vegan Study. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition 57(August 003):947.

[2] USDA. Food and Nutrient Intakes by Individuals in the United States, by Region, 1994-96.

[3] World Health Organization Technical Report Series 916. Diet, Nutrition and the Prevention of Chronic Diseases. 2003.

[4] Centers for Disease Control.

[5] Then you can finally answer their question and proudly say B12 fortified foods or B12 supplements Of course the fact that we're seriously deficient in B12 should not be taken lightly. Evidence suggests that our low B12 intakes make be shaving literally years off of the lives of vegetarians and vegans, so make sure you get your B12!--I recommend "Vitamin B12: Are You Getting It?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

About Dr. Michael Greger

From

http://birdflubook.com/g.php?id=4

Michael Greger, M.D., is Director of Public Health and Animal Agriculture at The Humane Society of the United States. An internationally recognized lecturer, he has presented at the Conference on World Affairs, the National Institutes of Health, and the International Bird Flu Summit, among countless other symposia and institutions, and was invited as an expert witness in defense of Oprah Winfrey at the infamous "meat defamation" trial.

 

Dr. Greger is a graduate of the Cornell University School of Agriculture and the Tufts University School of Medicine. His other books include Carbophobia.

 

All of the proceeds Dr. Greger receives from his books and speaking engagements are donated to charity.

[beforewisdom]

I posted a sticky on where to get calcium in sufficient quantities from

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13765

[Im Your Man]

haha! I'm definitely gonna do this :

"So when a meateater asks you "Where you get your B12?" You can counter with "Where do you get your vitamin C, vitamin E, fiber, folate, and magnesium? And while you're at it, you can ask them how they keep their sodium, saturated fat, total fat and cholesterol intake under control (not to mention their weight)

 

And thanks for the Calcium link sticky, truly good information to send to people addicted to milk

[Marcina]

Lol

Hey meat- eaters!

 

 

BOOOOOOOO UUUUUUURNS!!!!!

[Fallen_Horse]

Blah blah blah, I hate these studies.

 

You can't compare two groups of people, one whom never watches what they eat, and another who must watch it constantly, and expect any good results for those who don't watch what they eat. Of course a vegan diet is usually healthier than the Standard American Diet, that's why it's called SAD!

 

Do a study on health freak omni's versus health freak vegans and I will be more interested...

[Marcina]

I've noticed it's always the people who eat crap who tell me I'M the one who's eating unhealthy.

My grandfather makes fun of my diet all the time and he's overweight with diabetes and eats meat and pasta all the time.

Tsk.

Anyone else experience this?

[beforewisdom]

Blah blah blah, I hate these studies.

 

You can't compare two groups of people, one whom never watches what they eat, and another who must watch it constantly, and expect any good results for those who don't watch what they eat. Of course a vegan diet is usually healthier than the Standard American Diet, that's why it's called SAD!

 

Do a study on health freak omni's versus health freak vegans and I will be more interested...

 

Well, If you reread the quote, there is the phrase "by the same standards".

 

The point of the post for Dr. Greger ( and for me putting it here ) is that a lot of vegans are arrogant about getting enough of_____, because they may read that x foods contain Y, BUT in real daily life they are not as careful as they think they are and they end up not getting enough.

[Emmybear]

So should you take a vitamin b12 supplement? I mean I drink soy milk and eat fortified cereals and even my powerade zero has b12 in it. Should I still take a supplement? And will a multi vitamin do or should we go for the big b12 vitamin? And can you od....I am always wary of taking vitamins because I eat so many fortified foods and drink fortified drinks. I've never got anything checked but my iron levels since I became vegan and they are always normal.

[beforewisdom]

So should you take a vitamin b12 supplement?.

 

IMHO you should read the article. It is an easy read and you arm yourself with very useful information.Many people who don't know what they are talking about will try to confuse you. You will be fortified against that if you read the article and you will protect your health for years to come.

[endcruelty]

very interesting .... thanks

[Im Your Man]

Blah blah blah, I hate these studies.

 

You can't compare two groups of people, one whom never watches what they eat, and another who must watch it constantly, and expect any good results for those who don't watch what they eat. Of course a vegan diet is usually healthier than the Standard American Diet, that's why it's called SAD!

 

Do a study on health freak omni's versus health freak vegans and I will be more interested...

 

Thing is : what is a meat-eater who watch what he eats?

First of all, they're the minority, so it wouldn't be realistic to chose only healthy omnis for a study because they do not represent the majoity of omnis. While most vegans watch what they eat so it's just obvious that it's the samething with the vegans that participate in that clinic. The study is pertinent if the participants in omnis and vegans groups are chosen randomly, so it automatically represent the reality.

Second: a meat-eater who watch what he eats is a bit contradictory, it,s just someone who tries his best but his sources for informations are not good otherwise he would be vegan.

Finally: a meat-eater who watch what he eats could be someone who simply eats less animal products and in low-fat versions, eats more fruits and veggies, replace white bread and white rice by whole grains, etc. It would give results maybe similar to Vegeterians VS Vegans, but vegans would still win.

[ChaserHUN]

My grandpa says too that prisoners ate raw potatoes, your not normal etc., he is a bit overweight, had a 7 hour operation, and he eats lot of red meat and high fat things, so who is unhealthy

and meat eaters who try to eat healthy, maybe eat only chicken, and low fat things, and maybe don't drink milk, only joghurt etc.

[Fallen_Horse]

First of all, they're the minority, so it wouldn't be realistic to chose only healthy omnis for a study because they do not represent the majoity of omnis. While most vegans watch what they eat so it's just obvious that it's the samething with the vegans that participate in that clinic. The study is pertinent if the participants in omnis and vegans groups are chosen randomly, so it automatically represent the reality.

Second: a meat-eater who watch what he eats is a bit contradictory, it,s just someone who tries his best but his sources for informations are not good otherwise he would be vegan.

Finally: a meat-eater who watch what he eats could be someone who simply eats less animal products and in low-fat versions, eats more fruits and veggies, replace white bread and white rice by whole grains, etc. It would give results maybe similar to Vegeterians VS Vegans, but vegans would still win.

First: Agree

Second: Disagree (see below)

Third: Disagree. I firmly believe that the healthiest diet for a human is one that includes lean meats and small amounts of low-fat dairy. It is the diet we have evolved on, and a diet that our bodies are well adapted to subsist on. Cutting out food groups is never 'healthy' for a person, it's just that as vegans we all have to be more creative in getting all of our nutrition. If I was in it for the health, I surely wouldn't be vegan...

 

And if you want to find a large group of omni's who care about their weight, go to some regular bodybuilding or weightlifting forum, and you will find plenty there to do studies on...

[offense74]

Dairy is hardly something we've evolved on.

[beforewisdom]

Second: Disagree (see below)

Third: Disagree. I firmly believe that the healthiest diet for a human is one that includes lean meats and small amounts of low-fat dairy.

 

If that is your opinion then why are you are on a vegan body building forum?

[xjohanx]

probably ethical reasons.

i believe that lean meat and a lot of fish can be a part of a really healthy diet. dairy i'm not so sure about though

[ChaserHUN]

meat, dairy, eggs - from health dairy is the worst

Disagree - our bodies didn't changed trough the year to eat meat, milk etc. , our eating habits is hard because our idiotic society

I don't know why people think you can't get healthy on a vegan diet, there's a lot of vegan junk food out there, like Brendan said, because it's vegan it doesn't mean it's healthy, and why are you on this forum if you don't agree with vegans?

[Fallen_Horse]

It's not about disagreeing or agreeing with anyone.

 

I am vegan due to ethical, moral, and environmental concerns, not due to health. If I only cared about my health I would eat meat, however it's more important to me to help other species, help the earth, etc...

[Im Your Man]

wow, vegans that think meat and fish is healthy...This is incredible.

I can't believe it's on a vegan forum we have to convince animal products are not healthy...

 

Most important, it's not true that humans always consumed animal products. Since there's civilization it certainly became more popular, but not for all nations. Dairies consumption only started a few centuries ago. As for meat, if we look at prehistoric men, the whole thing about meat is a myth. It was a survival food during Ice Age but that's it. Scientists analized fossilized human shit nearly 500 000 years old and there was only vegan proteins in them, in all the different samples they found in different countries.

 

Meat is a second category food, a survival food, like during the Ice Age or if you live in Northern climate like Eskimos and Inuits where no plants grow. It's a second category food because it's nearly at the end of the food chain with all the accumulated toxins and wastes. We humans are at the top of the food chain and we need to eat foods that are at the bottom, at the purest and cleanest form, like plants that grow from water and sun and produce fruits and veggies. It's also a second class food because it doesn't contain anything very useful like vitamins and fibers; instead it contains cholesterol, saturated fats, etc. And lean meat doesn't mean it doesn't contain grownt hormones, parasites, bacterias, shit from the animal, etc.

 

Dairies: it's FOR COWS. After 8 years old our lactase enzyme goes down to almost zero and we're not even supposed to continue drinking human milk so certainly not cow's milk. And at our time, it's full of shit in it and it's pasteurized. If you think grownt hormones are good for health or a liquid that comes from cows that are so sick they're nearly dead.

 

Fish is not healthier than meat. Nutritionists are promoting fatty fish like salmon and tuna just because of their omega-3 content. But hey, it contains saturated fats too, cholesterol, mercury and loads of heavy metals not found in meat and harmful to health, intoxication always come with fish consumption. But fish sold 600% up in 50 years, that's sad. The omega-3 in fish becomes unstable when cooked. So there's flax seeds and all other vegan foods rich in this fatty acid.

 

Eggs: Good source of vitamins, minerals and proteins but there's plenty of better vegan foods and without the cholesterol and fats. And without the abuse of chickens.

[damdaman]

wow, vegans that think meat and fish is healthy...This is incredible.

I can't believe it's on a vegan forum we have to convince animal products are not healthy...

 

I kind of disagree with you here. There are healthy ways to consume some animal products. I agree that the big exception is dairy. Dairy is simply not healthy, no matter what.

 

However, if things like fish and chicken are consumed *as a condiment,* i.e. in very small portions, as a supplemental food source, as many modern-day omnivores in more food-conscious cultures (such as Portland, where a lot of people are falling in line behind the philosophies of Michael Pollan (Omnivore's Dilemma) and Barbara Kingslover (Animal, Vegetable, Miracle)) are doing, it's not necessarily unhealthy, and for us as vegans to claim that it is unhealthy makes it look like we don't understand nutrition.

 

The fact is that you *can* eat a healthy diet that includes some meat. Again, it should be in very small portions, every couple of days, and not consist of red meat/pork/bacon types of meats, but the fact remains there is nothing wrong with doing so from a nutritional standpoint.

 

There is something wrong with doing so from many other standpoints, such as ethically and environmentally, but not nutritionally. Just because plant-sources of nutrition are more than adequate to substitute for the "meat-as-condiment-not-as-main-source-of-nourishment" from a healthy-diet point of view, doesn't mean that the meat-as-condiment diet is inherently unhealthy.

 

Again, that doesn't eliminate the many other reasons not to eat meat even as a condiment, but it makes us look bad if we try and claim that such a diet is unhealthy, especially since most of those people who follow such a diet eat lots of fruits, vegetables and whole grains.

[ChaserHUN]

lol, eat meat to be healthy, than don't give a fuck about other species and eat them.... my health improved a lot when I became vegan, it cured my acid reflux, and I know more have problem with my tonsils, and now that I'm almost on raw food I have even more energy

[Fallen_Horse]

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/77/2

 

Stop with all the fluff. Dairy being unhealthy is just nonsense. Look at that profile. Tell me it's not a good source of protein, Vitamin A, Pantothenic Acid, Potassium, Selenium, Vitamin D, Riboflavin, Vitamin B12, Calcium and Phosphorus.

 

I get sick of meat eaters telling me that veganism is unhealthy, and I get sick of vegans telling me animal products are unhealthy. I don't even know why we are debating this. There is as much evidence against cows milk as there is against soy milk. That is to say, very little.

[ChaserHUN]

You don't get the point, the whole thing is not only about nutrition and blablabla, lot of people is lactose intolerant even they don't know it, they just have little problems like allergies etc., and make a lot of crap in the body, so it's not just all about nutrition, I don't say there's no bad vegan foods, there are a lot of vegan junk foods, but don't just come with this whole nutrition stuff

[Endy]

Funky this.

 

So most of you charming fellows know I'm as new to the vegan world as my local senator is to humor. After reading the three nutrients that we're shy on, I checked my multivitamin supplement and noted that it provides B12 and Calcium.

 

Then I read the label some more. What did my prying eyes find?

 

Gelatin.

 

Woe.

[Im Your Man]

Yeah gelatin is another animal thing that should be avoided.

 

Damdaman... so you're talking about meat the same way you would about some poison substances and drugs... don't take too much, just a tiny small bite per week, just as a condiment like salt... lol

It's like saying : go ahead, sniff some cocaine, just once in a lifetime can't be so bad. Or just one cigarette per week.

Listen, to be able to say that a food is healthy, we should be able to eat it in larger amounts than what you say, like fruits and veggies. Otherwise we could say that tobacco is a healthy food also because it contains carbs, proteins, vitamins and minerals.

Of course milk is healthy, for a calf. But we don't care to know if meat and dairies are healthy or not, because we don't need them, and since we don't need them, I don't see why there's vegans here saying they would be healthier eating meat. If it would add something better to a diet, don,t you think adult cows would add some milk to their diet instead of just grass, and that herbivorous animals wouldn't eat meat ?

When a vegan say "If I only cared about my health I would eat meat" it's like if he would say my health is inferior on a vegan diet and eating meat would make it superior. So vegans like Mac Danzig, Tim VanHorden, or even vegeterian Bruce Lee have inferior health and athletic abilities than meat-eater athletes ?

 

Edit: also it,s not true that meat in small quantity as a "condiment" is healthy. Just a few molecules of infected meat is enough to kill a human. Just one infected mad cow's brain is enough to kill 300 000 humans. Just one bite of meat and you could swallow the flesh-eating bacteria. There's even some vegeterians that got infected by prions and died of the human mad cow disease just because there was microscopic traces of meat in some product. Alzheimer and Parkinson are just two amongst many deseases resulting of small (or large) consumption of meat by slow infection of very small doses of prions over a long period of time.