any unprocessed protein besides the testo-unfriendly soy?

[kai]

hi i am a vegan bodybuilder who don't eat packaged food

The problem is that i can't get enough protein, any suggestion besides tofu and tempeh to get enough protein?

 

i heard that soy decrease testosterone and increase estrogen which leads to fat storage

what should i eat then?

thanks a lot

[ChaserHUN]

http://veganmaster.blogspot.com/

read this study it's great, try out 80/10/10, if you eat enough calories you will get enough protein too

[Gaia]

Some of us vegan BBers are allergic to soy and thus do not um . . . . process it well anyways . I have my sources down to Brown Rice protein powder in my oatmeal in the morning, along with a couple of teaspoons of spirulina. Then I have hemp shakes two times a day (was up to three, but my last one changed to just brown rice protein powder shake for easier digestion at night) between the meals. Since tofu and tempeh is out of my picture, I do a stirfry of a seiten sausage with pinto/kidney/garbanzo beans (on a base of cooked brown rice for lunch), and a salad with home made seiten (because the processed stuff at the store uses soy sauce for flavorings. I just use the sea salt in the vegetable broth I boil it in) and tahini dressing at night for dinner. It comes out to be just over 100 grams of protein a day!

 

You could always add more food to have more protein. I am cutting right now, so I have everything at a bare bones state.

[Zack]

http://veganmaster.blogspot.com/

read this study it's great, try out 80/10/10, if you eat enough calories you will get enough protein too

 

I really wish people would stop saying this, it's not necessarily true.

 

For someone that is actually concerned about putting on muscle, don't trust this advice please.

 

If you just want to be fit or an endurance athlete, then it's probably fine.

[tuc]

I REALLY recommend this http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/soy_whats_the_big_deal to anyone who is concerned about soy and testosterone or semen or any other side effects.

 

Anyway, vegan unprocessed protein is available:

 

- Hemp

- Gemma (pea)

- Rice

 

There is a comparison of these in sticky topic in this subforum.

 

OK I might not be the best example because of my heavy bulking (I also got a bit fat) but I've gained 20lbs in 8½ months and it's mostly muscle. I've used only soy protein and creatine besides normal food. If you read the article you'll understand that you can't possibly eat enough so that it would have an effect in your testosterone levels, even if you try.

 

Also, WELCOME to the board!

[medman]

i heard that soy decrease testosterone and increase estrogen which leads to fat storage

what should i eat then?

thanks a lot

 

Don't trust everything you hear. There is a lot of misinformation out there. I believe there's a sticky in the Health/Nutrition subforum about soy and testosterone. On the subject of phytoestrogens - a lot of people see "estrogen" in the word and freak out. For a compound to be classified as a phytoestrogen, it just has to be a plant-based compound that is able to interact with an estrogen receptor. This does not mean it has a "female sex steroid" effect. Depending on how an estrogen receptor interacts with the given compound, it can even have an "anti-estrogen effect", that is, the exact opposite effect within the cell than estrogen itself would have caused. And most estrogen receptors aren't even associated with sexondary sexual characteristics. Some are involved in cardiovascular health, for example.

 

As far as I can tell, the rumours about soy and estrogen/testosterone levels stem from a misunderstanding of what a phytoestrogen is. I haven't seen any hard evidence that soy interferes with a man's (or woman's) sex steroid balance.

[beforewisdom]

hi i am a vegan bodybuilder who don't eat packaged food

The problem is that i can't get enough protein, any suggestion besides tofu and tempeh to get enough protein?

 

i heard that soy decrease testosterone and increase estrogen which leads to fat storage

what should i eat then?

thanks a lot

 

You heard wrong, particularly if you are talking about low processed traditional soy foods

 

Read the sticky notes in the nutrition board on this site.

Search on "soy" in the search engine on this site and on veganfitness.net.

You will find plenty of hard reading to reassure you.

[kai]

http://veganmaster.blogspot.com/

read this study it's great, try out 80/10/10, if you eat enough calories you will get enough protein too

 

sounds great, i'll try it

thanks!

[kai]

hi i am a vegan bodybuilder who don't eat packaged food

The problem is that i can't get enough protein, any suggestion besides tofu and tempeh to get enough protein?

 

i heard that soy decrease testosterone and increase estrogen which leads to fat storage

what should i eat then?

thanks a lot

 

You heard wrong, particularly if you are talking about low processed traditional soy foods

 

Read the sticky notes in the nutrition board on this site.

Search on "soy" in the search engine on this site and on veganfitness.net.

You will find plenty of hard reading to reassure you.

but there's still a lot more study showing that soy's gonna have your libido get killed, and i afraid that's true

[SeaSiren]

I stopped using the soy protein a while ago (and I'm female, if there was any question, lol). It made me bloat and I'm getting better gains with other powders. I'm using Sunwarrior (my sponsor) currently and love it. Since they sponsor me I am also a distributor (shameless plug). There are several other proteins available that are not soy, so plenty to choose from.

 

On a side note: I have no problem with any of the soy products that aren't heavily processed. So perhaps using a non-soy based powder and not worry to much about consuming tofu, etc.

 

Everyone is very different. There may be things that work with the majority.... but your body is it's own. Trial and error is where you will find the best formula for YOU! AND mindset has a LOT to do with how your body can react. So if you are not comfortable with a food product / training technique. Find one you are comfortable with

[tuc]

but there's still a lot more study showing that soy's gonna have your libido get killed, and i afraid that's true

Show me one study and I'll debunk it.

[Fallen_Horse]

I really wish people would stop saying this, it's not necessarily true.

 

For someone that is actually concerned about putting on muscle, don't trust this advice please.

 

If you just want to be fit or an endurance athlete, then it's probably fine.

 

+1

[medman]

but there's still a lot more study showing that soy's gonna have your libido get killed, and i afraid that's true

 

I have never seen a credible study showing this effect. I also invite you to hop on down to the "kinks" thread in the dating forum if you think soy-eating vegans can't get their freak on

 

Seriously, though, as I mentioned earlier, there is a lot of ignorance regarding the meaning of "phytoestrogen". You will not grow boobs, and your penis will not shrivel away to nothingness, nor will you suddenly start enjoying Sex & The City. Ironically, taking testosterone (i.e. chowing down on 'roids) will actually produce those effects. Well, not the Sex & The City part. That was a joke.

[kai]

but there's still a lot more study showing that soy's gonna have your libido get killed, and i afraid that's true

Show me one study and I'll debunk it.

I do hope it's not true...as a vegan,Soy means a lot to me..

below are the links

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459861

 

http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=soy-vey-does-eating-tofu-lower-sper-2008-07-23

 

the worst part is this:

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459516

[kai]

but there's still a lot more study showing that soy's gonna have your libido get killed, and i afraid that's true

 

I have never seen a credible study showing this effect. I also invite you to hop on down to the "kinks" thread in the dating forum if you think soy-eating vegans can't get their freak on

 

Seriously, though, as I mentioned earlier, there is a lot of ignorance regarding the meaning of "phytoestrogen". You will not grow boobs, and your penis will not shrivel away to nothingness, nor will you suddenly start enjoying Sex & The City. Ironically, taking testosterone (i.e. chowing down on 'roids) will actually produce those effects. Well, not the Sex & The City part. That was a joke.

 

but there's a lot of saying that soy contain estro--

oh my god i wanna be father someday

[offense74]

but there's a lot of saying that soy contain estro--

oh my god i wanna be father someday

Doesn't seem like they have a problem producing children in China or any other place where soy is frequently eaten....

[Im Your Man]

anyway, if there's some omnis that say eating soy ain't good for those reasons, perhaps they should know they're eating soy everyday (if they would read the ingredients of what they eat sometimes) and the animals they're eating ate tons of transgenic soybeans for years and this goes in the next bodies who eat those animals.

[offense74]

but there's still a lot more study showing that soy's gonna have your libido get killed, and i afraid that's true

Show me one study and I'll debunk it.

I do hope it's not true...as a vegan,Soy means a lot to me..

below are the links

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459861

 

http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=soy-vey-does-eating-tofu-lower-sper-2008-07-23

 

the worst part is this:

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459516

Article no1 is just a bunch of garbage. IGF-1 (which he says is lowered with soy) is probably not a good thing to have high values of. Like I said above, he uses Japanese men as the scare crow for fertility. All 65 million of them. They are running out of space and resources over there because of the immense fucking going on.

There is also a whole lot of studies on rats, mice and monkeys there. We are not rats. We are humans. Or maybe vampires if you're on atkins.

 

The third article is on a book written by Kaayla T. Daniel.

John Robbins is on her.

Here, from a low-carb magazine.Apparently she is "a member of the Board of Directors of the Weston A. Price Foundation in Washington, DC". Surprise, surprise. It's like asking Hersheys if chocolate is good for you.

[medman]

I stopped reading when I got to the line "I decided to write this book because I saw so many clients and friends suffering from vegetarian and near vegetarian diets." in that interview.

 

Newsflash - there are mammalian hormones in milk. There are no mammalian hormones in plants. Someone who claims soy messes with your endocrine system but promotes eating dairy is clearly biased, as offense74 just pointed out.

 

kai, you'll have to learn to separate the real science out there from the bullshit. And there's a lot of it. But really, you're concerned about ever becoming a father? There have been many (and I mean MANY) heavy soy-consumers in the world, for a very long time. The chinese and japanese in particular. If there was a systemic crippling of fertility and libido, you can be sure it would have shown up by now.

[Im Your Man]

perhaps we should not forget about one detail: if it's true that soy can have nocive effects, perhaps it's because it's transgenic soy. Perhaps GMO's are the reason why we can put the labels potentially dangerous, harmful to health, carcinogen, to so many different foods now. As if a food found in nature like soy, could be more dangerous than all the chemicals we spray on it and the genetic modifications we do to soy so it can survive all those chemicals!

[Fallen_Horse]

I have never masturbated less in my life, and my soy intake is way up...

[tuc]

Here's a topic of sperm count & soy and I think I nailed that research there... as did many others too.

 

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14182&hilit=sperm

 

I'll get to the others later.