Straight edge?

[robert]

Wow, nice to hear so many people live a similar life.

 

I actually thought I was the only person (other than super religious friends I know) who has never drank, smoked, or done drugs. I also don't swear, but mostly because I don't like to, and I've worked with children for 10 years so I'm sensitive to certain words. (Although I'm somewhat of a freestyle rapper and I do use 4 words that aren't so bad A$$, B$@ch, and HE!! or D*mn in my lyrics). Swearing isn't that big of a deal, but point is....I didn't realize there were so many "pure/clean (drug-free)" individuals out there.

 

I guess that kinda comes along with the vegan mindset.

 

Great job to all of you awesome vegans!

[michaelhobson]

I really don't get the thrill in drinking, especially to the point of intoxication. I go to a Big 12 university where it's pretty rare not to booze it up on the weekends. I'm around people who drink all the time ... I live in an apartment where there are huge drinking parties ... but I just don't get into it. I really, for the life of me, can't see how alcohol-induced puking and being rushed to the emergency room for alcohol poisoning is cool either. There are so much more interesting ways to have fun, even at parties where people are drinking.

 

I have to agree with all of the above Brendan. I do consume alcohol, but don't understand the binge drinking culture. Drinking until you puke or end up in the hospital is just plain stupid! I don't think it compares at all to having a pint of ale with friends or a nice wine with dinner.

 

I don't "get the thrill in drinking" either. However, I do enjoy exploring the hundreds of different ales and wines out there. I'm curious why most of you in this thread think that is such a bad idea. Or, do you just think it's a bad idea for yourselves?

 

Just curious about your motivations everyone. I never drank for the first 30 years of my life, then one day I couldn't remember why that was important to me. So, I decided to give it a try. I have never smoked or used drugs of any kind.

[ronnie kray]

for me it was about a rejection of a dominant value system in my enviroment, one that just made no sense to me.

 

where i grew up, it was so important to drink. there was something wrong with you if you didn't. "what do you mean you don't drink?! everybody drinks!" and for something so important, no one could come up with a very good reason to do it. i would ask them why and most of the time all i got was "just because, you are just suppossed to." couple that mentality with some bad experiences i had with alcohol and drugs. i have seen too many people end up in the gutter or under the ground, wasting their lives away because of drugs and alcohol. all in the name of having a good time.

 

and from my experience with people, there is no such thing as responsible drinking. most everyone drinks to get drunk. to the point where they do not remember the whole night. and it became a routine. something they do every single day. after work, pick up a six-pack. they can not function without it. it is just so sad.

 

i am not saying everyone who drinks is like that. i am just saying that is the enviroment i grew up in. those are my experiences, that is my reality, and that has led me to my decision to become straight edge. if you are the exception to the rule, more power to you. i guess your experiences are different than mine.

[CollegeB]

Ronnie I think you are right. I know people that claim to drink "socially", but they actually just binge drink to be drunk. The one excuse that I hate is when they say they drink so they can overcome inhibitions. To me that says I have some conscious (perhaps moral) problem with something so all I can do is drown it out. Ever hear a story about a drunk vegan who eats a hambruger then has digestive problems for a few days? I cannot say I had bad exp. with substances, but I think i've had better ones not using them, and atleast I can remember these. I stopped eating meat and stopped using at the same time. I think these were the two most important decisions in my life. Anyhow, I think every drug has its practical application, but to use them just to subvert the self so that one may fit in wtih the herd is a use I don't condone.

 

Another thing to consider though is that people can become addicted to gambling, sex, credit cards, even food. Usually addiction is paired to drugs, but these non-drug things can have a similar effect and possibly more detrimental than drugs.

 

>< sXe: i'll take this to the bitter end ><

[MarginWalker79]

two things:

 

1. is beer vegan? i've never drank and i was just wondering.

2. even str8 edge kids can take it to an unhealthy extreme

 

this coming from someone who has never had alcohol, tobacco or any other illegal drug in their system (i was knocked out when i had my wisdom teeth removed last year man let me tell you whatever they give you knocks you on your ass) i see how people could get addicted to pain killers. it makes you all fucked up. just rambling on my closest experience of being high haha

seeya

[jonathan]

alot of beer is vegan. its the fitration process that makes it vegan or not (they use isinglass [fish gut] bone char or blood).

 

as a rule, german beer is vegan, as it is comes under 500year old purity laws (dont ask me how to spell in german!). which is pretty good as german beer is the best IMO.

 

i have to ask you guys (and gals!) why do you not believe in moderation?

 

alcohol is absolutely fine in moderation. it does not harm you. it tastes great (most of the time - but then you find out what you do and dont like) and there is such a huge variety of it.

 

its like olives. i love to try new olives, any sort, its just fun to try new things. this is the same as wine - there are thousands of different types of wine. its fantastic to try new beer - so many varieties.

 

i just feel that by saying 'no, i dont drink' you are missing out on something that is truely pleasurable, and that causes no one any harm.

 

jonathan

[ronnie kray]

well first off, i have not always been straight edge. i used to drink beer. i tried several different brands. and i have to tell you, it all tasted like someone washed their dirty socks in it. i nave never tasted piss, but i imagine that's what piss would taste like. it sucked. furthermore, when i confronted fellow drinkers about this, they all pretty much conceded that it takes a while to get used to the nasty taste. they said "try this brand, this one is good". so i tried it. and it tasted like shit too! but they kept drinking nonetheless, and acting like they enjoyed it, and couldn't wait to have more. it amazes me that some people drink so much of that dishwater in one night. "i know it taste terrible, but let me have another".

 

to this day i still here my friends say things like, "you have to drink it fast while it's cold. if it gets warm it tast like horse piss". i always reply, " well then your just drinking COLD horse piss, it still sucks!". so i do know what i am missing out on.

 

i disagree that it doesn't do anybody any harm. every week i open the newspaper and see another alcohol related accident. in 2003 17,000 people were killed in alcohol related accidents, and that was a DECREASE from the previous years. not to mention health problems. it's not a big secret that alcohol has been linked to liver and other health problems. then you got your violent drunks who think they are bullet proof. go about looking for fights when they are drunk. and they usually find one. on top of that, it makes your breath stink... smell like ass in a dead carcass. that one is more of a problem for the people around you though.

 

as for moderation, like i said those are my real life experiences. people always tell me, "a glass of red wine a day is healthly for you." i always have to point out the obvious "you are not drinking one glass of red wine a day. you are drinking at least a six pack every night". i'm around people drinking all the time. i don't see people having one or two drinks and calling it a night. i see them drinking until they are smashed. and that's what leads me to my decision. your experiences lead you to other beliefs. i am not one of those straight edge that tries to push his beliefs on someone else. i don't really talk about it until someone else brings it up, like here. but when i do talk about it, i go on a bit of a rant... sorry about that. no offense.

[jonathan]

ranting is good! covering up your emotions is silly really.

 

anyway, i respect your point of view regarding your reasons not to drink, but i have to say that the drinking culture here is probably the worst in the world. for starters, people start at 18 (legally, usually 15ish) so university culture and drinking are really one and the same. i dont like it at all, but have done it myself. not since i was 18 mind (im 21now) but i have done it. it sucks majorly being drunk, and i know that it tastes like crap (after the first two drinks IMO). people here get drunk all the time, and the student union bars at the universities are so cheap that even students can afford to pretty much every weekend.

i will never get drunk again cos i hate it. there is no worse feeling. i begrudge the drinking culture because it makes going out for a quiet drink with friends a pain.

but i love the taste of beer, and indeed wine (i dont like spirits) and wont let the fact that others abuse it ruin my enjoyment of it. i dont drink more than a couple of drinks in an evening and never every day. typically in a week i will drink 2-4drinks in total and that is my idea of moderation.

 

i know that alcohol fueled culture is evil, but in moderation its great

 

jonathan

[michaelhobson]

I have had the pleasure of sharing a couple of pints of beer with Jonathan. I remember the good times quite clearly and have never been drunk. On one occassion we even had a couple of our straightedge friends along to the pub and they enjoyed themselves as well.

 

I have to agree too with Jonathan's take on moderation. I rarely have more than two drinks in a day and usually no more than 2-4 drinks in a week. It's not unusual at all to go weeks at a time with no alcohol.

 

It's unfortunate that so many of you seem to only associate with a bunch of drunken morons. I hope your social circles will expand in a positive way.

 

As far as beer tasting like piss? Since you are in the U.S., I will assume you have had things like Budweiser, Coors, Miller etc. Am I right? I haven't had the misfortune to consume any of these brands, but would guess from the smell that they are indeed piss in a can! They could no more be compared to real beer than you could compare Foldger's Coffee to a Starbuck's Cappuccino or compare mashed potato flakes from a box to good homemade mashed potatos.

[jonathan]

i have had bud, millar and coors and they all taste terrible. really really bad!

 

jonathan

[ronnie kray]

yeah lots of budweiser in these parts. lots of coors, schaeffer, lone star, natural light. horrible tasting stuff. i always figured that's why non-alcoholic beer never does any good business. if you are not getting a buzz off it, then you are just drinking nasty tasting water. and i do acknowledge there is definitely a problem with alcoholism in my enviroment. i can and do have a good time with my friends, even if i'm the only sober one there. just too bad i'm the only one who remembers the night.

 

i hope i didn't sound too pushy. one thing i don't want is to sound like i'm trying to push my views on someone else. just like i don't want someone elses view pushed on me. i'm sure i could get along with you two guys. too bad there aren't more like you around here. here, there is no such thing as a night without alcohol. moderation is definitely a tiny minority here, sobriety an even smaller percentage. i can't even think of any friends, aside from a few other straight edge in town and a few family members, that can go 2 weeks without beer, like michaelhobson does. trust me, if you guys lived here, you would get hassled too. "what ?! your calling it a night? you've only had two beers! come on, we got to finish this case! drink another you pansy!" etc.

 

honestly i don't know if i'm the exception to the rule or if you are. maybe it's just my town that is so bad with alcohol and drugs. i'd hate to think everyplace is like this (i did live in another big city for several years, and there were elements of the very same thing). or maybe you two are more level headed than most others. i really don't know.

[michaelhobson]

No worries Ronnie! You're not being pushy, I asked for your thoughts and appreciate your opinion.

 

Unfortunately, most places have their fair share of the kind of people you mention. It's especially bad on college campuses! Maybe worse in Texas? Are you on a campus? Or, just surrounded by idiots?

 

I'm sure Jonathan and I aren't the only two moderate drinkers in the world. Sounds like you need some new friends. I'm sure we would get along fine with you. I certainly wouldn't harass anyone to drink who doesn't want to and I'd rather hang out with straightedge kids than drunken rednecks anyday.

 

I don't really see it as any hardship to go without beer. I didn't drink a drop for the first 30 years of my life. Even now I don't drink if I'm training the next day, which eliminates 4 days out of the week already. It's really not much different than going without soy ice cream or some such thing. I may not have it for a couple of weeks and then I'll remember it and think "hmm, that would be nice tonight." In both cases, it's even better if you have a friend to share it with.

[CollegeB]

Hey Ronnie things around here are probably about the same in your town. It is common around here to start drinking on thursday, many skip class friday or stumble in then they drink through the weekend and I guess sober up monday. It's really pathetic. I only have one friend in the area which does not consume any drugs. Even the devout christian conservative people here drink heavily. But as suggested earlier, it probably is a texas thing.

[brendan]

I can see how kicking back a few beers with your friends in a pub could be fun. I have no problem with moderation. And if someone wants to get plastered, well, that's their prerogative. I just don't do it myself because I don't like the taste all that much, know of more interesting ways to have fun and think it's unnecessary.

 

I do find it a little pathetic, as Ronnie mentioned, that so many people feel like it's the thing to do without question. It also really annoys me when people define themselves as drinkers. I know of a few people, who I consider friends, who make it a point to talk about drinking before they drink, then while they drinking and then again after they've sobered up. Seems kind of lame to me.

 

Like I said, though, I like to cook with wine for flavor. And I have had a sip of Guiness before - that's pretty good. Some microbrewed beers can taste good, too. As for Budweiser, seems pretty nastastic to me - and that's coming from a St. Louis dude, where the scheist is brewed.

 

I really have no desire to taste beer anymore and I've never drunk a whole can or anything in my life. I also kind of justify putting more money toward good, vegan food by not dropping a ton of cash on beer or hard liquor at bars.

[robert]

Kind of a strange question.......what does IMO mean?

 

I've seen this in a few posts, including one by Jonathan in this thread, but I'm not sure what it means.

 

(after the first two drinks IMO).

 

Thanks

[compassionategirl]

Kind of a strange question.......what does IMO mean?

 

I've seen this in a few posts, including one by Jonathan in this thread, but I'm not sure what it means.

 

(after the first two drinks IMO).

 

Thanks

 

 

i am only laughing because this reminds me of the time when I asked Kollision what 'lol' stood for and he said something like "how can you post all the thoughts and info that you do and not know what lol means?" then he told me what it meant. Then I said "Oh, I thought it stood for "lots of love"!!!! . Then he said " YO got to be kidding me then his shock turned into hysteria and he couldnt stop laughing!! "

 

 

okay so now i am the one doing the laughing and the " YO got to be kidding me."

 

imo stands for "in my opinion."

 

[robert]

Oh, ok, thanks. Now things will make more sense. I'm still learning all the internet slang

[bighead]

is this still the straight edge post? it looks more like the beer-hating post. i'm irish, so i'm going to have to tell you all that beer tastes bad but ales and stouts taste good. in ireland, they give Guinness and other dark stouts to people in the hospital because they are so high in iron. they used to many years ago, recommend it for pregnant women...that is, until they figured out that that wasn't the greatest idea in the world.

(irish saying: god created whiskey to keep the irish from ruling the world)

 

anyhow...i think i qualify as straight edge. but i don't like labeling myself. and straight edge sounds kind of goofy to me. plus everyone i know who's straight edge is solid punk or hardcore. i listen to quieter stuff usually. and large numbers of straight edgers get tattoos with thing like "straight edge." that seems like some kind of gang or cult or something. to actually put the label physically on your body. i don't know.

 

and also, with the promiscuous sex...i never really thought straight edge meant that part of it as remaining a virgin. just not sleeping around. cuz remaining a virgin until marriage automatically makes it a judo-christian-islamic thing. and i wasn't aware that straight edge was connected to religion. i don't want to start a religious discussion on here, but that is just the way it looks to me as a secular person.

 

i don't drink, smoke, do "drugs," or sleep around with every girl i get the chance with. and i include all prescription and over the counter drugs in that term "drugs." do straight edgers do that or just "recreational" drugs? i also eat about 80% of my diet organic. i do all of these things because i want to keep my body clean and live for a very long time, not to be a part of some group or "youth movement." so i guess straight is prehaps just too conformist for me. which is maybe a little ironic considering it's meant to be a subculture or counter culture

 

i mean no offense to any of you who classify yourselves as straight edge. i'm just stating my case and how i've always felt about it.

[reformat hard]

i've been straight edge for all my life, but claimed since 98'. i also have been vegetarian since '01 and vegan since '04. living clean is the best thing i've ever done with my life.

 

xveganx for life!

[ronnie kray]

again i point out this FAQ for some good answers to questions. but i will go ahead and address a few issues.

everyone i know who's straight edge is solid punk or hardcore. i listen to quieter stuff usually.

straight edge did come out of the punk/hardore community and is still how many people, including myself, are first introduced to straight edge. it was a counter culture within a counter culture. however, many people's musical taste expand and grow through out their lives. you don't have to listen only to punk for the rest of your life to stay straight edge. it's ridiculous to restrict yourself to one genre of music. i love radiohead, nine inch nails, depeche mode, many others far from punk. not everyone will stay a punk rocker their whole life, but carry straight edge with them where ever they go.

 

and large numbers of straight edgers get tattoos with thing like "straight edge." that seems like some kind of gang or cult or something.

that is not most straight edge, just the most visible and obvious straight edge. and that is just the imagery that goes with tattooing in general. gangs, tough guys. no doubt some people do get it for that reason, since so many people tell them they are fags for not drinking. but for others it is just another way of showing thier commitment to their lifestyle. it's interesting to note that the man credited with coining the term straight edge never intended to start a movement. he just wanted to write a song to question why it was so important for all his friends to get drunk and stoned every night. for me, it's more of a personal choice and not tied in to any movement. i don't belong to any crew. i did it on my own.

 

there is a very small element of straight edge who became violent and got into fights at shows in the mid 90's. i do not and have never condoned beating somebody into your way of thinking. i just want to stress they are a tiny fraction of the whole straight edge population. but as always, a few bad apples make everyone look bad.

 

and also, with the promiscuous sex...i never really thought straight edge meant that part of it as remaining a virgin. just not sleeping around.

 

that is basically correct. some people, mostly strict evengelical christians, who have tried to inject straight edge with religion in order to try to appeal to youth and look like they are hip and in. but it was originally meant to encourage people to be a little bit more selective in who they choose to have sex with, not complete celibacy. and it has nothing to do with any religion in particular.

 

i include all prescription and over the counter drugs in that term "drugs." do straight edgers do that or just "recreational" drugs?

i can not speak for all straight edge, because it has branched out to many different schools of thought. some straight edge are vegan, some not. some are celibate, some not. some consider caffiene a drug, to others that's laughable. the things that all have in common are no alcohol, no smoking, no recreational drugs, no turbo sluts. other than that it's up to each individual to decide how far they want to go with it.

 

so i guess straight is prehaps just too conformist for me. which is maybe a little ironic considering it's meant to be a subculture or counter culture

 

why would you consider straight edge to be conforming to a trend, and beer drinking/drug use not a much bigger trend to conform to. even if some people consider it trendy and try to fit in to that straight edge group, they are still trying to fit in with a very small group. as oppossed to the majority of people around them who never question, conform to peer pressure, and basically drink and do drugs because "everyone else is doing it".

 

i mean no offense to any of you who classify yourselves as straight edge. i'm just stating my case and how i've always felt about it.

no offense taken. straight edge is still largely an underground lifestyle outside of the mainstream. recently it's been turning up a bit more. as with anything "new", a lot of people still have many misconceptions about what is and is not.

 

whoa, that was a long post.

Edited August 7, 2005 by ronnie kray

[ronnie kray]

Are you on a campus? Or, just surrounded by idiots?

it pains me to say it, but i am not on campus. i feel the need to stick up for my town now that i have badmouthed it so much. they are not all idiots. it's not such a bad place. it's not like every single person is a homeless wino. but there is a problem that is never acknowledged. what is see here is two things. one, alchohol and drugs as escapism. disappointed people clinging on to bottles. there is a lot of depression and a sense of hopelessness, people turn to alcohol to escape that. this is especially true for the older generation. and two, they are just told from birth that it is the thing to do. it is drilled into their heads from an early age. you have to do it to have fun and be a man. there must be something wrong with you if you don't. and most never question it.

 

just yesterday i saw a commercial that illustrates what i am talking about. the slogan was "MEN SHOULD ACT LIKE MEN... MILWAUKEE'S BEST BEER". then in tiny little letters, please drink responsibly.

[Vamprilla]

I'm straight edge I guess. I don't smoke do drugs or have sex, but I will drink, just not much.

[Richard]

I guess I am straight edge apart from the music. I drank alcohol a few times in my teens, and it changed my behaviour in a shitty way, so I stropped drinking, and I haven't touched alcohol for about 8 or 9 years. I have never had an interest in drugs or smoking, and I intend to never have sex. Having said that, other sexual acts other than actual sex, I would do, but not outside a proper long-term relationship, in which I had the intention of being with my partner for life; I don't muck about.

 

With regards to 'moderation', I find the term to be strange. If you drink enough alcohol to affect your behaviour, then that irritates me to be in your company. If you haven't drunk enough for it to change your behaviour, why are you drinking at all, what is the point? And that's that really... I don't have a problem with people drinking however much they want if they don't cause damage to other people, and so long as they don't hospitalize themselves (as hospitals should be for people who are unfortunate, not for people who deliberately hurt themselves). But I don't like being in the company of drunk people, it's like hanging out with a bunch of spoiled kids.

[michaelhobson]

Having said that, other sexual acts other than actual sex, I would do

 

Seems incredibly silly! Why would you engage in sexual acts, but not intercourse. What woman would put up with that?

 

I'm not mocking you here, I am really very curious.

 

If you haven't drunk enough for it to change your behaviour, why are you drinking at all, what is the point?

 

In that case why would anyone ever drink anything other than water? I drink because I like beer and wine. I really enjoy exploring the literally thousands of different brews available.

[Richard]

Having said that, other sexual acts other than actual sex, I would do

 

Seems incredibly silly! Why would you engage in sexual acts, but not intercourse. What woman would put up with that?

 

I'm not mocking you here, I am really very curious.

 

If you haven't drunk enough for it to change your behaviour, why are you drinking at all, what is the point?

 

In that case why would anyone ever drink anything other than water? I drink because I like beer and wine. I really enjoy exploring the literally thousands of different brews available.

 

Yea if people like the taste of it I understand that.

 

I don't want to have intercourse because of the risk of pregnancy primarily. Even with contraception and birth control, you can still get pregnant, and I really don't want kids, and don't really like the idea of abortion, so avoiding sex seems best. Other stuff there is no risk of pregnancy.