Ruz

awww...thanks! you're always so kind!

I agree. Unfortunately, it's an 'intriguing' conversation about how cool clean-shaven pretty boys are now Don't get me wrong! I say it for your own good..women are a lot more enthusiastic about going down on men when they don't have to dig through a jungle of hair to find what they are looking for..it's like sucking a dogs ear!!!

Hey! You don't need to press much to get some good muscle going. I only work chest once a week using just 1 series of DB presses, then again indirectly with dips..I currently only use 2x16k DB's..but my chest is ripped! I took these fotos last night when i was taking the ones for the triceps comp so I thought I'd show them to you although I look much better with a pump! It's not about how much weight you use, its about intensity, form and recovery time. Of course..sadly I've lost all "tit" action now

I started taking it recently and am already noticing some predicted positive effects - more endurance, faster recovery, even a bit more strenght. As RAINRA said, creatine doesn't increase your mass directly, but it does so indirectly - through making you more of a beast in the gym, which makes you stronger and bigger in the longer-term. As for cycling, since vegans don't get any creatine in their diet and since (to my knowledge at least) there are no real-world benefits of creatine-loading vs. taking small doses regularly, I just take 5-6g every day with my protein-carb shake. I'm sure other people will share some more info on this, though. Good luck! No..no more info..I agree with you 100% I have been taking itsp a day for a few months and its the most effective supplement I have ever tried..and as you said, it makes no sense to cycle it, especially if you are vegan!

Dude..where is your sense of humour?¿

OK..so i realised i can't get to the gym till Saturday So last night in a panic I took a couple of photos..no pump, shitty direct light..makes me look flat But anyway, triceps aren't my forte! And could someone PLEASE give me some advise on posing! Hasn't anyone got a link to a page which shows you how to pose? Anyway, if the competition doesn't close before Saturday I'll get some better photos in

You should try living in Spain..here the level of stupidity, ignorance and closed mindedness is really astounding! EVERYONE is convinced you'll die! It doesn't matter when u say "well I've been at this for nearly 30 years and not dead yet!" They are even incpable of appreciating the heavy load of sarcasm in your voice. Then I have the aggressive attacks when people find out that my daughter deosn't eat meat. I've been accused of child abuse, despite my daughter clearly being the tallet and strongest in her whole school..I mean she is literally head and shoulders above the rest and at 12 makes me look like a midget (too much spinach I reckon). Here, they don't know the bare minimum about nutrition, not even the basics! So when they attack you and tell you that you are missing vitamins and minerals etc from your diet, and you ask "Which vitamins are we talking about here?" they don't even know what you are SUPPOSED to be missing. At least in the UK people make some attempt to answer this with something like "protein". Protein is NOT a vitamin I answer. Protein builds muscle so OPEN YOUR FUCKIN EYES AND LOOK AT ME! So now of course they all accuse me of taking steroids because I couldn't possibly have built this much muscle on a vegan diet, could I !!!?¿?¿?¿?? But generally I encourage questions, I know what I'm talking about,. I know I'm right and like the opportunity to prove it. What I can't abide however, is that type of response which you were referring to...when you say something they can't answer they walk off or ignore you. In Spain they are even more annoying than this because they tell you that you are going to die and when u try to defend yourself, they laugh at you smugly, put their finger to their lips and say "Shhhhhuuushhhhh!" really loudly. Then they repeat their origional comments and it goes on like that. I swear I'm going to kill someone one day..probably my doctor because he shouldn't be such an ignorant prick considering his job and the amount of times he has sent me for blood tests and seen everything come back MORE than adequate. Seriously, the best place to live for a vegan is the UK. Vegeterianism is presented by the health service as a very healthy option and ignorant comments are few and far between and people generally ask intelligent questions and listen to your answers. Veganism is only one step away really so people are much more accepting and also open minded enough to LISTEN to what you say. Funnily enough I got so tired of the typical Spanish response that I started acting like recommended in this thread but found to my dismay that people don'¡t appreciate or even recognise sarcasm. So when they say "You're going to DIE" and you say..with your biggest sarcastic grin..."Yep, but i've probably got a few years left until the effects of not eating meat kill me...I'm SO weak and delicate from the lack of meat it's untrue!!" They actually ask you "Well, why do you do it then?" Duh!! I give up! I should stop insulting the Spanish really because I know I sound racist and in some part of me I'm actually starting to FEEL racist and that's not cool..I don't mind the lack of education but the closed mindedness drives me mad (that on top of the government sponsored animal abuse activities put on free for kids, AND the extreme levels of sexism and racism over here). This is like hell for a vegan..Andalucia sucks! I wish I still didn't understand Spanish because I was much happier before i usderstood what these people were saying!

I think I'm the opposite to you! I don't find that my old friends abandon me..I just can't stand their ignorant attitude and I can't stand to watch people eating meat and saying "its a shame you can't try this it's delicious!" over and over again! In the end i loose my rag and tell them "Yep, I'd love to try some of that rotting corpse you have there you fat fucker! Maybe we could BBQ your dog for supper" I am rather direct though, and known for speaking my mind so its no wonder I don't have many non-vegan friends left but good riddance to the ignorant dicks! The non.-vegan friends I DO still have all show the utmost respect for me and my ethics and make a real effort to make sure they have things I can eat at their houses. They also make an effort NOT to talk about anything which is going to offfend me. Generally I dislike most meat eaters and battle with feelings of intense hatred which i feel, Its quite a problem really getting on with normal everyday life when you see practiaclly everyone as an evil selfish assasins. I also see all non-vegans as personally responsible for the destruction of the planet and my daughter's future which makes me hate them more. I don't like being filled with such negative feelings and hardly ever express the level of my with humanity as a whole to anyone. However, not surrounding myself by disrespectful friends helps a lot. And yes..I am one of those "dickheads", Marcina, who pushes my beliefs on anyone and everyone and that's probably why I have created so many vegans and saved so many lives...say what you want I'm proud of my actions and someone has to play the role of the crazy activist afterall!

Ohhh..don't get negative in that way..just punch the fuckers in their ignorant mouths!

Dude..I've been a dope addict for years. I know people look on it as a soft drug, but when you buy this genetically manipulated stuff and roll up a 2g pure weed spliff BEFORE you eat breakfast you know you've got a big problem. I've tried to stop smoking many times but ALL my friends smoke a lot..although some are not as addicted as others. I think I'd been stoned 24h a day for about 7 years, but now I haven't smoked in 3 weeks and the only way I've achieved this is by refusing to see any of my friends. Really, I'm going to have to look for new friends because I can't say no if someone offers me a spliff but I CAN stop buying it myself. These last 3 weeks however, have been really tough..and especially so because I've felt very lonely without my friends. I've had terrible withdrawal symptoms..cronic imsomnia, shaking, paranoia, depression...pff! And its easy for people to say "look for new friends" but its not like when you are at school..its harder the older you get and that's the worst of it in the long run in my opinion. You probably think its silly but I know a lot of people who have had a hard time stopping smoking weed. I've also notied I have a LOT more muscle tension..and yes, I did use to train stoned! one of the reasons I stopped smoking was my love of the soprt. I wanted to see if I could achieve more cutting out my one and only unhealthy vice! Only time will tell. However, one immediate effect of stopping smoking dope is that now I don't have the munchies, I've finally managed to get down to the 10% BF level I was striving for and my skin looks great! I have had to dramatically increase my cardio and am doing a lot of sprinting and stuff. I'm extremely nervous and the weed helped me keep it under control but now I have to find another way to let off that excessive energy i have! Stay strong and good luck!

, Hey! Didn't you say you were going to send some cash to my charity of choice too?

OMG! I didn't see this and I'm on the forum every day! When does it close?¿?¿? Can I still submit fotos?¿? It'll have to wait till tomorrow at the very least because now its dark and I have no lights in my house (the birds ate the cables..still can't work out how a bird can chew through electricity cables and not get fried). But where are all the women?¿ Hello?¿ Are there any more women out there?¡'¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?

Soz M8..it must be my fault..always seem to have a way of lowering the tone of the conversation..anyway, don't worry.-.it's not relevant to you! In Scotland...any extra "insulation" is fine in my book (especially if you wear a kilt) LOL

Mister? I'm a woman!hahahhhahhahaha Though Octo and I have got a lot of things in common, as mentioned before a hate of body hair and also, we both think size is of the utmost importance! But don't worry, there are a lot of women out there who like "furry" men...I just don't happen to be one of them! Maybe it's living in a hot climate but there's something not very attractive about the way hairy men shed..and when its hot it all seems to stick to me! Argh!!! My Ex used to wax "back, sack and crack" once a month and he was smooth as a baby..mmmmmmm

I do have my ass slightly above paralell, bar in the middle of my feet and shoulders slightly infront of the bar at the start..I think maybe I go wrong with the execution. I would love to make a video so you guys could give me some advise but really...I'm too embarassed to do it at the gym, I'm new there are don't know the people yet and they may think I'm a bit of a prick or something Oh MaryStella, I do use a pad on the squat bar..always! I don't prticularly like big traps on a woman so I never work my traps directly so I need the extra cushioning. Infact, I only started doing squats when I changed my gym because the old one didn't have a pad and I was constantly covered in these love-bite type bruises all over my shoulders which were very unattractive! I know the guys think a pad is a bit sissy but I'm too old to care!

Well I haven't been here long but I like Octo too! Nice sarcastic sense of humour and definite lack of body hair..a winning combination if you ask me!

. Thanks! That makes me feel better! Going to have to start wearing shin pads to the gym..i don't mind making the bruises in the first place, but when you hit an old bruise again with the bar the pain is horrible One comment though..I notice the deadlifts more in my quads than back..aren't they supposed to be a back thickness exercise? Given, my back is probably stronger than my quads proportionally, but I'm still not sure if I am doing them right..the straight leg deadlifts I've done for years I feel mainly in my back and ass, but not these! I've checked out all the videos on youtube and lots of stuff written about correct form and I'm doing the best I can but no-one does deadlifts in my gym so no-one can help/advise me..can't wait to get back to the UK and get down Dorian Yates Gym and get a few expert pointers! 2.5 weeks to go and counting......

OMG don't start on deadlifts!I've always done straight leg deadlifts but have recently started to learn the classic deadlift..I've got bruises all over my shins..is that a good sign?¿

Tell her you want her to have a posibility of living to be thirty, and meat consumption is the number one cause of global warming. The meat farming industry has practically destroyed all the worlds natural resources and is responsible for half the world going hungry..I'm sure she'll understand that! I think its important that we are honest about just how bleak the future is and tell it like it is. Really, unless global meat production is radically cut within the next 5 years, well we will all be fucked..sad but true! Its important that we are honest and clear with young people about what is going on in the world because they are the ones who are going to have to deal with most of the shit and they are the ones who can make or break it. We're living in delicate times and it breaks my heart and angers me immensley to see the crap we have left to our children, the complete and utter mess! As a teacher that's what I tell my young students...my older students get to watch "earthlings" which makes the point better than I ever could (though I've recieved a formal warning for this so maybe I'll have to change my tactics) As a mother, well I was vegan before I had my daughter so it was never really an issue. She was always grossed out by the thought of eating animals, as are most people who have never had it presented to them as the "normal" thjing to do! I remember when she was really little and she saw them milking a cow..she didn't realise that it was a cows tit, not down there between the cows legs..she literally screamed! It was so funny!! By the way..nice to see another mum on the forum

NO NO NO!! I'm BIG on correct form as I can't deal with having time off through injury..I go MAD! Truly evil I also write down absolutely everything I do in the gym with great detail and walk around with a stop watch. I time my rests because that's the only way I can get a true picture of if I am progressing or not. I found I was resting for longer periods as I was increasing the weights and was concerned therefore about how true my strength increases really were. Obviously you need longer rests wigh heavier weights, but timing my rests is the only way I can see if I am truly progressing in my opinion,,they say I'm quite anally retentive in they gym..hahahhah! I do things correctly that's why I was saying that I only use microscopic weights when squatting compared to what other women use but that doesn't necessarily mean I have worse legs As I don't have a spotter, I also use dumbells exclusively for bench pressing as they are far safer and I like the way you can get a better stretch at the bottom than you can with a bar. When I started working out I always wanted to use the biggest weight I could handle and often didn't use a full ROM. Now I'm over that macho crap and as I'm doing doggcrapp training at the mo, the 10 second negatives on most exercises forces you to adopt correct form. Sometimes I do 10-20 reps at the end of an exercise with a very limited ROM, but this is only after I have worked to failure with a full ROM and rest pausing techniques..also i never do this with squats. With squats I generally do 4-8 heavy reps, followed by about 20reps with a lower weight (as indicated in DC training). As regards the front squats..well we all have to learn new exercises from time to time to stop boredom and stagnation setting in. Although I am poor, I pay for a couple of hours with a professional trainer when learning any of the olympic lifts or these types of compound exercises. 2 plates may be nothing for you but I weight 8 stone and only started squatting this year so I don't think its too crappy to be lifting more than my own weight with deadlifts and squats using correct form. Hopefully within a year I'll be able to lift double my weight...but don't get me wrong, form comes first, weight increases second

Thanks for the advise mary!! I've been trying front quats..but I just can't seem to find a comfortable bar position. I actually tried front box squats to reduce the risk of killing myself! I figured if I couldn't get up I could just simply "throw" the bar forward....maybe if it put a big dent in the nice wooden floors the have in my gym it might make them think about buying a proper squat rack

Was that guy grabbing your tits when you were "squatting"? I prefer to use one plate and pass on the tit grabbing..unless of course the guy is really hot! Oh also while I'm here, just like to say that I actually like smith squats because you can put your feet infront of the bar and hit your quads more..also there's nothing like split squats on the smith machine for hitting your ass! you just can't safely load as much weight when doing free weight split squats..well I can't because I have occasionally lost my balance and I wouldn't rist it! Also, on the smith machine your posture is more upright focusing more of the work on your ass Also, some of us here work without a spotter and so a smith machine is a safe option. Additionally in my gym there isn't a squat rack so I'm always scared to go for that last, most important rep..apart from on the smith machine. I still do full free weight squats, but with less weight and generally, sumo squats, because like many women, I find them far more comfortable and if i don't open my legs wide I can't get down to the floor without bending too far forward.... I think it must be the difference in hip formation or something. I don't know what all this macho bullshit is about how much weight you use..some of the best legs I have ever seen were on guys who used relatively low weights when squatting, a full ROM and high intensity. Also, as regards the ladies here..well I'm pretty strong for a natural bodybuilder and I can't put more than 30kilos on the bar if I wanna get back up when I get my ass to the ground. So you can call me weak..but i've still got nice quads..I'd really like to see videos of what the ladies can really squat (5-6 reps ass to grass) because I'm starting to feel inadequate here!

Why?

Ohh..what a shame it's over! No...its sad to see things get nasty on the net when probably, if you were talking face to face, things would have been different! We should al remember that when reading comments, we miss out on half smiles, sarcastic tones and a whole other range of subtle changes in the voice, and body language which help to transmit the real feelings of the speaker, or soften the harshness of what they are saying. I have personally been banned from this site before for getting into an argument which got out of control, but after having re-joined the website with a differennt nick, have found that I actually get on really well with the girl I argued with in the first place. I made a sarcastic jokey comment and of course, written downn it just didn't sound the same and so the problems started...I feel that something similar has happened here and if you two were face to face chatting over drinks, you wouldn't be wanting to rip each other's throats out at this point and would probably have come to an understanding and formed a friendship. You are obviously BOTH very intelligent and ethical people! As regards the specific argument in this case, I happen to see both your points..especially with the PETA reference to the holocaust. Personally, as a long time vegan I have come to a point where I feel my life is of no more importance than that of any other animal. The comparisons PETA made between the Jews and animals on intensive farms IS a very valid one in my opinion! In reality, you don't need that much intelligence at all to suffer fear and lonliness and obviously pain, and anyone who has ever been on the inside of an intensive farm will be able to accept such a comparision without problem. However, PETA should really consult a psychologist or someone like that before using images and comparsions like that for the mass public. A new vegan, or vegeterian will often take many years to really internalize anti-speciesism (I remember myself saying "I know it's right but I just dont FEEL it yet") and although against animal cruelty, will be unable to fully accept such a comparision..for meat eaters, this comparision would and did result either as offensive or ridiculous! As I have got older I have seen the benefit of using psychology when talking about veganism, or protesting. For example, If you go to a bullfight and start shouting insults at the people waiting to go in, all you'll do is put them on the offensive and make them think you are a lunatic because most of them have been educated by loving parents to think that their actions are right and so will see you as a crazy freak. In the same way you can show people what happens on intensive farms without saying "you're responsible for this you NAZI" which is what PETA did. Afterall, 90% weren't born to a vegan family and most of us have eaten meat at some time! All you have to do is show them how the animals suffer, they will make the connection but the second YOU accuse them they will close their ears and their minds and you'll have lost the battle, and maybe even the war. As an ex ALF activist, you have to understanding this way of thinking was very difficult for me to achieve, but now its as clear as day. And although I must say it is very enjoyable to insult animal abusers, you'll never get them to change in this way. If you want someone to change you have to stop accusing and come from a point of understanding i.e. "I know you were educated to enjoy bullfights, and your family are good people, I'd just like you to think about....etc" By any standards it's hard not to get angry and the insulting is much more fun when you are confronted with animal abusers..problem is like that all you will achieve is giving all other vegans a bad name. If you wanna burn down a farm or blow up a shop do it! Personally I'm all for financial sabotage...but you need to employ different tactics when dealing directly with people..PETA need to learn this! PETA's stunts are brilliant at attracting media attention which could be very positive, but I think at present, some of their actions are misguided and cause vegans a lot of harm and in particular, that comparision they drew between the Jews and farm animals...Who TF would understand that apart from a hardcore vegan? I haven't met a meat eater yet who hasn't been angered by that comparision, however valid it may be! Anyway guys.. I really don't want to get into another argument here so I won't respond to ANYTHING you may say about my opinions, because this is the internet and things get blown out of proportion easily! peace and please remember..under other circumstances you'd probably be the best of friends because you both clearly have a lot of passion about your beliefs.

Yep..I agree with you..but the PR stunts and ingrids imagination are what have made PETA so big. They promote themselves using these media attracting stunts, in the same way that pop-stars, directors and actors often do. Like it or not it's VERY effective. It's just a shame other more viable organizations don't follow their cue and get the REAL vegan message out there in the mass media! Don't get me wrong, I find some of their stunts plain stupid, but they do achieve the desired results generally. I think when talking about how people see vegans you have to look at how YOU represent youself. For many people you will be the only vegan they know and they will judge the way vegans are based on what they see in you more than what they see about PETA: That's why it's so important to be healthy and fit, educated, intelligent and a good communnicator so that you personally can show people what vegans are like. Most people who ask me about veganism are attracted to it NOT because of the cruelty factor, but rather because they see me as far fitter and healthier and generally in much better shape than other non-vegans my age. I've had more than 1 person exclaim "f*ck me! If that's what you look like after not eating meat in 30 years I should do the same!" Obviously, I prefer it if they do it for the animals, but there are a great many people in the UK now who adopt a vegan or vegeterian diet for health reasons..and really, if they stop eating animals, that's a worthwhile result isn't it? It's often easier to get someone to stop eating meat for health reasons, and when they are in a position that they don't eat meat, present them with anti-speciesist ideals. It's easier to accept these ideals when the natural defensive, guilty behaviour which arises from someone eating meat is no longer an issue. We can go round in circles all day arguing about PETA but the reality is that generally most people form their opinion about vegans from the vegans who they know personally and we are all responsible for how the general population views us..