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I'm amazed at how fast you can put on weight - be it muscle or fat! It took me 12 weeks to put on 10 lbs and about 8 of them were muscle. I've gotten stronger in some ways but haven't been concentrating on just strength. My trainer changes things up so often that I never know what to expect. Seldom do we have high weight, low rep days (so I do those when I'm on my own). Regardless, his coaching is working. I've got more chest, tricep and quad definition and have had to give away most of my tops. My shoulders and upper back pack on muscle a bit too easily. If only the same were true for my lower body! I'd say my biggest gain in the past 3 months has been with endurance. Also, I don't shake when posing anymore, LOL. I hear what you're saying about being around BBers. I work out at 2 gyms and the one with my trainer has a serious lack of good physiques. My other gym has only one woman who plans to compete but she hasn't made any real gains as yet (serious waste of money as she has a trainer 3x/week for the past 6 months). She plans on competing in the same 2010 contest I'm leaning towards and she would be in the masters class with me. I hope she gets serious soon because I would love the competition!

I'm with Gaia on this one.

Jaleel, you make some good points. As for co-existing, I have a difficult time doing so when my BS meter goes off the chart and that has happened here often in the past and usually in the nutrition section. Some forums are closely monitored by knowledgeable admins/mods who work to maintain the quality of information posted, unlike our rather "anything goes" style. Despite my strong desire for the former type of forum management, I've come to accept that it's the latter that will prevail. I've noticed that some members stick around just long enough to push a few crazy ideas, get into debates and then disappear when the controversy is over. I've certainly been guilty of fueling some of those debates. I may just step back and only post when people are being serious/reasonable, much like Ryan, Chris and Gaia are able to do.

As for a critique of your routine, I can say that since my trainer has pushed me to to more high reps I have seen improved muscle growth. I used to swear by the low rep/high weight school of thought but shaking things up a bit can cause growth. Even when I do heavy weight, I rarely do only three sets. Four sets is my norm. Occasionally, my trainer will throw in a set that is 100 reps - however long it take you to get there. Generally, this happens on my leg day, ending with 100 leg extension and/or leg curl reps. It's definitely working for some quad separation.

As always, strong work Chris!

Great advice from Gaia. A woman who has actually competed and been there, done that.

Gaia, you know I think about you often! I'm glad you're still here because I want to know how your cutting might have gone better. I see you are back to bulking, which I know you like much, much better!

Jaleel and BeforeWisdom, thank you for your thoughts. It is true that you should leave that which gives you no joy. The problem is that this forum was a great place to visit in the past and I come back looking for that same experience. While a blog is fine for some, I like intelligent interaction - not speaking to an audience. In my daily life, I am surrounded by intelligent, educated people at times and less educated, less gifted people at other times. I realize that I cannot always choose the perfect group to socialize with - which is what was here for a short while and which I miss tremendously. I don't know that the hardcore bodybuilding aspect of this forum can be revived. Once the smell of death gets into something it's hard to shake. I don't know the best answer. Bodybuilding is bodybuilding regardless of where you get your protein source. I can lurk on other bodybuilding forums and take what I need but it would be nice to go through the actual competition preparation with other vegans. I just don't see that happening here. IMO, this should be the one place where competing vegan bodybuilders can come and share their thoughts without being slapped down by people who will probably never compete in their lives, vegan or not. Instead, we're encouraged to be all P.C. and accepting of whatever raw/new age/low protein/no B12 diet any new member considers "superior" to a bodybuilding diet. It confuses new members and lurkers and makes us all look like morons to the bodybuilding world. If the name of the forum was something other than Vegan Bodybuilding then I could deal with it. But I'm a vegan bodybuilder and it bothers me to see us so inaccurately represented by this current forum.

I have a high calorie day almost every week. Thanksgiving day will be that day this week. If by a training diet you mean a cutting diet then you should have a higher calorie day every 48-72 hours anyway, in order to avoid lowering your metabolic rate, so holidays fit nicely as long as you don't go overboard.

Giacomo! Your ability to look on the bright side always amazes me. Stick to it. Wednesday evening, Friday evening or Sunday are good days for me. Let me know how your schedule fits with that. I don't know if I'll be posting a training log anymore. I'm so beat by the time I leave my trainer that I can barely remember my name - and that's 3 out of 5-6 workouts per week.

BeforeWisdom, I think age can be very relevant to knowledge. I know much more about human physiology now than I did in my 20s. A freshman student knows much less on his/her first day of college as compared to graduation day. A new vegan, new lifter, new whatever generally knows less than someone who's been at it awhile. However, you are correct about number of posts being irrelevant. I meant number of quality posts!.

Well, at the risk of getting banned, I think HappyVeganHorseShit.com might be a better choice!

Well, I miss you too. If we ever got back to vegan BODYBUILDING (minus the alternative universe, er lifestyle, component) as the basis of this forum then I would be around more. It's too exasperating to give solid advice here, only to be debated by some 19 year old with the power of google's collective stupidity to back him up. Or, better yet, to be debated by a 40-50 year old who thinks eating raw/low fat/low protein/"super foods"/fill-in-the-blanks for 8 months, lifting a few weights and reading "studies" somehow gives him the same knowledge base and comprehension skills of a PhD. When this becomes a forum where knowledge, experience, education and walking-the-walk (rather than spewing bullshit) is valued - I'd be happy to return on a regular basis.

Well, truth be told, a good Broadway play always does it for me but my husband is really into Baroque so I had to settle for that. Now I'm worried that I've developed a bit of resistance to Broadway and will have to treat with Baroque until the rhinovirus adapts again!

What I love (not) about this forum is the fact that a guy with the name DINGBAT can try to debate with a man probably twice his age (with 1000x more posts at this moment) by the name BEFOREWISDOM. But why are we even debating the benefits of grass vs. broccoli? I had a sore throat on Monday and went to a Baroque concert on Tuesday. Sore throat gone!!!! How many of you have had the same healing powers of Baroque?

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Joe, as always, you're brave enough to bring up the tough topics. While most vegans (that we know about) appear to be white and educated, and therefore privileged, they also tend to be young and before the prime of their maximum-earning years. Vegans may be higher in the pecking order of the general population but once they enter the middle class (by earning it, not being born into it), most that I've met are former vegans who had to give up those lofty ideals to join the club of the middle or upper class. The truly privileged have social mores that don't easily incorporate veganism. Vegetarian, much less vegan, hedge fund managers or corporate lawyers just don't exist. You have to eat meat to play with the big boys. If I were in the underclass I might not be trying to emulate a bunch of apparently self-righteous vegans! We are a small fringe group with very few high-profile, successful people to represent us. Regardless of how much we might try to reach out to other "minorities," what makes us think they would want to be associated with us? Veganism appeals to our intellectual and ethical selves. In a world where most people are bombarded with the ideas that looks, financial wealth and social acceptance are the most important values - how can veganism compete? So, no need to flog ourselves for being what we are - mostly white, somewhat privileged, somewhat educated people who found a way of life that appeals to our ideals. As for upsetting a racial, religious or gendered "minority" - it's done every day. If the majority upsets the minority in our "politically correct" world then they are called on it. Minorities upset the majority as well but are usually given a pass (in today's world, at least publicly). We always have and always will step on each others toes. It's human nature because self-preservation equals self-centricity, be it group self or individual self. The most powerful religious, political and economic groups have all insulted someone over the years - why should PETA be any different? You cannot appeal to everyone. You cannot make everyone happy. PETA may not get everything right but at least they keep trying.

David, It's so nice to hear that you're doing well! Very exciting times for you. I saw your video on vegan.com recently! Take care.

Hey Joe! I'm still around, just not as much and not posting. Work is the same, family is well. I'm mentoring a young girl once a week so I'm discovering all the child-friendly activities in this city. I've put on 10 lbs since August and it's now time to cut about 10-15 lbs. Hamstrings and glutes are trailing but my quads are finally starting to fill in nicely. Still with a great trainer and planning on competing in 2010 - unless I'm ready by next autumn, but I'd rather take it slow. Have you reached the big 50 yet? Did you reach your birthday goal? Have a great Thanksgiving!

Regina and Sophie, Please feel free to PM me with any questions. I am currently training for my first competition and am entering a cutting phase. My trainer has been a NPC judge for the past 20 years and he's been a tremendous help. He's not able to help me much with the vegan aspects of protein intake but there are those out there who can - VeggiePrincess, SeaSiren's former/current coach, Dr. Joe DeMarco (if you can reach him). I haven't cut down low enough to give you advice on what works for me as yet. Do yourself a favor and do NOT listen to advice from those who have NOT competed or trained for a comp. You have to be in it to understand it. Bodybuilding/figure comp preparation is no different than any other sport in that you need to have the time, dedication, knowledge and money to do it successfully. Find a local judge in your area and ask him/her for advice on who can help you to train and pose. Posing is extremely important. You also need an experienced eye to let you know your strengths and weaknesses. You may not be ready for the competition you are aiming for and you may discover that you need more work. Don't let this discourage you! Do it when you are ready to be number one. As for protein intake, those of us who are actually vegan and bodybuilding have not recently been able to have a voice on this forum concerning this and many other issues. There is a saying on another forum that goes like this: "Take it to VBB!" Unfortunately, it's not meant as a compliment and it's a relatively new saying. This forum did have some actual bodybuilders posting in the past but they have been squeezed out. It would be nice if the administrators would consider changing the name of this forum and letting VBB exist for actual bodybuilders, but this has come up before and here we are. I miss some of you a lot and wish you lived close by! If anyone forms an actual vegan bodybuilding forum, please contact me.

I can't help you with the workouts since you can't change your schedule. It looks like you're lifting heavy and going to failure in the 4-10 rep range, which should give you the most growth. Compound exercises (bench press, dead lifts, squats, etc) are also important to growth as they involve many muscles and cause a larger release of growth hormones. If you've been eating the same number of calories for the past 9 months and only have a 5 lb weight gain then you need to eat more. It appears that you use your bike for transportation (?), so you shouldn't add any additional cardio when trying to gain. Adding creatine to your post-workout meal may also help with gains. (You may need to up your caloric intake as you gain. Once I added 10 lbs of muscle, I needed to increase my calories by almost 500 to continue gaining). As an aside, I noted that you ingest a fair number of simple sugars with a high glycemic index (grape juice, jelly, bagel). Whole food sources of carbs with give you a much better nutritional profile. Also, you need to balance your intake of omega 6 fatty acids with more omega 3's. You can do this by adding 2 T of ground flax seed or 1.5-2 tsp of flax oil per day. If you decide to try the flax oil then make sure it's from a store that store it refrigerated. Spectrum brand has one with the addition of DHA - even better. Don't purchase one of those oils that advertise "balanced omegas" because you don't need the other oils (no money to be made on just flax oil, so they add other oils and try to convince you that you need their product). Store ground flax in the refrigerator for up to a month (freezer for longer than that) and store flax oil in the refrigerator - get the small bottle so you use it up before it gets rancid (don't heat flax oil, it needs to be used cold or room temperature). Good luck with your gains!

Thanks for the links, although they both seem to have slowed significantly.

I realize that I'm taller and heavier than most of you (5'10" and 159 lbs), but what worked for me still applies. I used to maintain on 1800 calories when I was about 140 lbs and about 106 lbs lean mass. A gain of 12 lbs of muscle increased my metabolism enough that I was maintaining on 2500 calories per day. I'm currently bulking and need to go over 3,000 calories per day to gain (since gaining more muscle). I was thin my entire life and had to overcome years of mental conditioning in order to consider gaining weight. It doesn't happen overnight (especially for those of us in our 40's) and there is some fat gain with muscle gain, as well as muscle loss with fat loss. However, nothing can reset your metabolism like putting on muscle. And you have a better chance of eating an adequate amount of vitamins/minerals/phytonutrients/etc when you are eating over 2,000 calories per day vs. under 1,500 calories. I know there are some who disagree with me, but I don't believe you should be doing much cardio (or none at all) while trying to add muscle - lift heavier! Pull out the cardio when you need help with cutting fat.

Over the past year, I've gained 12 lbs of lean mass and lost about the same in fat. Since August, I've been bulking and have gained 8 lbs - which is about 6-7 lbs lean. I have another 12 lbs of mass to gain before cutting. It can be done. At first, I gained water and some fat (in August) until my body adjusted to the increased calories. Now, I have to up the calories even more to gain. I'm 5'10" and eat over 3,000 calories per day to gain. I don't do any cardio but the sessions with my trainer are relatively long (1.5 to 2 hours, 3x per week) and very intense. I thought that I worked myself hard in the gym until I met my current trainer. I cannot stress how important it is (for me) to eat every 2.5-3 hours in order to gain. This means no binge eating, rare empty calories (refined flours, sugars), and eating when you're not hungry. (I haven't been hungry in 3 months, which is key to bulking and cutting) Like Devil's Plaything, I also eat a fair amount of carbs - any time of day. He made a good point about gaining fat in the process. This is not an exact science so you need to allow a bit of fat gain during bulking and a bit of muscle loss during cutting. I had a fair amount of success with lean gains at the beginning of the year (upping my calories some weeks and cutting back some) but it didn't last for long. I think once you get past your body's set point, it takes dedicated bulking to gain. Good luck with your gains!

Hey, good luck with the surgery.