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I worked back on Tuesday but cannot remember the workout. Wednesday was leg day and Thursday was a much needed rest day. My weight is in the 156-158 range depending on my water status. Legs DB Squats[/b] - on a curved foam bar - very difficult as you have to balance on it 30 lb in each hand x 20 reps for 4 sets Barbell Straight Legged Dead Lifts - on an elevated platform for extra stretch 95 x 15 115 x 12 115 x 10 115 x 8 Leg Extensions 80 lb for 4 sets First rep, with toes fully flexed, hold for 30 seconds, then do regular reps for another 30 seconds Hamstring Curls - by far, the weakest part of my body On my own, I can do about 50 lbs but my trainer didn't believe me so he "assisted" me with 80 lbs, then 65 lbs. And then I had to do 50 lbs for 2 sets on my own. I can barely walk today. Calf Raises Holding a 35 or 45 lb plate, 4 sets of 25 reps each leg Abs

Not that Gaia needs me to explain anything for her, but she's a former and current bodybuilder. When you're bodybuilding, these type of diets are (currently) sort of the norm when cutting - as Gaia is currently doing. I believe that she was not vegan when she competed in the past and is trying some of the same techniques as a vegan. (Gaia, correct me if I'm wrong here). While many here might not try this type of diet, this is a bodybuilding site Gaia is an educated woman who does know the negative aspects of ketogenesis - but is willing to take the risk temporarily before competing. Gaia, in the spring of this year, I did some moderate cutting and managed to get my carb intake down to about 80 gms per day with an intake of ~ 1700 calories.. I was using soy, pea and rice proteins as well as seitan and tofu. I used a small amount of berries in my morning smoothie but I had tofu and kale for more than a few breakfast meals. I ate a LOT of greens with seitan or tofu and flax oil. I was almost never hungry.

The only up side to bulking is that I can drink wine. It has the only empty calories worth consuming, IMO! I always work out on Sundays unless we're traveling. It's a great day to be at the gym since there are so few people. Yesterday was leg day: Legs Walking DB Lunges - on an incline 20 x 12 25 x 12 30 x 12 Squats - traditional, with a barbell 95 x 15 115 x 12 125 x 8 125 x 8 Reverse Hack Squats 90 x 12 135 x 10 145 x 8 145 x 8 Leg Extensions - hold for 2 seconds at the end of each rep, 10 seconds after each set 60 x 12 60 x 12 60 x 12 60 x 12

I'm Your Man made some good points. It sounds as if you had a large loss initially (10 lbs in less than 4 weeks) and I would expect that some of that was water. There are a lot of people who believe you cannot lose more than 1% of your body weight per week without losing some muscle, unless you are obese and have a lot of fat to lose. I would continue what you're doing as it appears to be working. For some people, cycling the low calorie days helps to keep their metabolism from "resetting" too low. For instance, eating 1400-1500 calories for 2-3 days and then going up to 2000 calories for one day. If you hit a plateau, you might try this.

I am now going to levitate myself right out of this conversation........

Give me a call when you're back in town. I can picture a road trip to Venice in my head (with the hubby because I go nowhere without him): Robert: Hey, I think I just saw Ronnie Coleman. Diane: Did we just pass that vegan restaurant I wanted to try? Hubby: I think there's a vineyard somewhere around here. Robert: If we get to the gym by 9 am, we'll have time for lunch and a return to the gym. Diane: Can we make it to San Francisco in a couple of hours? I made reservations at Millennium for tonight. Hubby: If the two of you don't be quiet I'm going to leave you here and head into Napa by myself for the rest of this trip. Yesterday was chest day and a trip to the last 3 vineyards we wanted to visit since we moved here. The scenery was fantastic and so were some of the wines. Chest Push Ups 10 reps x 4 sets HS Iso Press - per side 35 x 15 40 x 12 45 x 10 50 x 8 50 x 7 HS Iso Incline Press - per side 25 x 12 30 x 10 35 x 8 35 x 10 - had a longer rest Cable Flys - straight and incline, 4 sets each with a good squeeze at the end Calves and Abs

If it's the couple whom I'm thinking of then there will be nothing raw (unless they've branched out into raw), the flours will all be whole grain, the sweeteners will be unrefined and the fat will be coconut. I would bet on some cookies and cake slices. Bringing your own containers is probably a good idea.

Dani, sorry to hijack your journal but that Zack never fails to amuse me.

Joe, Thanks for the link! I forgot about him even though I have his site bookmarked. I like that he promotes PCRM and is now vegan. I'm going to pass this onto my trainer. It's great that there is someone out there training people without pushing low-carb, protein powders or multiple supplements!

What exactly are you looking to do? Drop fat? How many pounds? Do you know your currently fat mass and lean body mass? What is your caloric maintenance intake? How often do you do cardio and how often do you lift? What type of lifting do you do? Sorry for all the questions but there really isn't a one-size-fits-all, IMO. For example, a 5'6", 130 lb woman with 30% body fat who does cardio 5 x/week and maintains on 1600 calories would need to add muscle mass before successfully losing much fat because her metabolism is so low. A 5'6", 130 lb woman with 20% body fat who does cardio 3 x/week and maintains on 2000 calories can easily up her cardio and drop her calories adequately to lose about 1 lb of fat per week (sparing muscle loss). If both are new to lifting then it's possible that they could (should for the 1st example) add muscle mass during the 2 months while losing fat.

The Natalie Portman comment really ticked me off and she's a good example of someone who is taken more seriously. As much as celebrity may be frivolous, it's a huge part of our culture. So don't be afraid to look at those US/In Touch/Star magazines at your doctor's office!

I understand what you're saying. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word muscularity. Regardless of how fleeting her striations are, she appears really thick/big - which I appreciate but it's not my preference. I tend to like those in the light weight and middle weight classes (I assume she's in the heavy weight class). The idea of losing control after a comp is one I need to get out of my head. A few of the guys at my gym have done this and it's not pretty (or healthy, one packed on 30 lbs in a few weeks supposedly). My trainer's philosophy is to maintain at 12-13% bodyfat and drop into the single digits for shows. We'll see if it works for putting on mass in reality (I'm currently at 19% and "bulking" but a very controlled bulk with little fat gain). I'll start cutting this winter but will need to add more muscle before competing (I still think 2010 is more realistic for me but maybe I'll surprise myself next year).

Thanks for the heads up! I was wondering how we would eat all of it before it went bad without inviting every vegan in this city over for a taste test.

You definitely like more muscularity than I do!

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Good to get your input, Hilary.

You're killing me. Okay, we'll assess! Tonight was: Back HS High Iso Row - per side 45 x 15 55 x 12 65 x 10 70 x 8 70 x 8 Seated Cable Row 90 x 12 100 x 10 110 x 8 - then drop sets to exhaustion Straight-Arm Pull Downs 30 x 12 40 x 10 40 x 10 40 x 10 One Arm DB Row 35 x 10 x 4 sets Lower Back Extenions, Calves, Abs It was a crazy day at work, one of those days where you are really thankful for your health.

You are correct. I have not watched The X-Files.

Are you stoned? Seriously.

Hey, if you believe that you can only eat one food at a time, go for it. As for animals eating only one food at a time - have you ever actually watched animals practice this in nature? If so, watch them some more and you'll see that it's not true. Animals usually eat whatever comes there way. Anyone with a good grasp of human digestive physiology should understand that our digestive system can handle two different foods (and any ratio of macronutrients) at once. Digestion is NOT as simple as pH levels - enzymes are involved (not the kind that come from plants but the kind that come from the human body). Asking if there's scientific proof that our digestive tracts can handle a combination of protein/carbs/fat is like asking if there's scientific proof that we can breathe a mixture of oxygen/carbon dioxide/nitrogen. Why does science need to "prove" something that happens every time we eat or breathe?

Coincidence. Great post FormicaLinoleum.

If you want the nuts to be dry and crunchy then you need to put them in a dehydrator for 8-12 hours after sprouting them. Otherwise, they will be wet and chewy.

I can see your point. In a way, if there was a hypocritical celebrity out there promoting veganism I'm glad it's Pam and not a more believable/respectable actor. Many people would only expect that Pam Anderson may have gotten it wrong so it's easy to sort of bash her and explain that she doesn't really understand veganism - if you get that opportunity with someone who is looking at her as a real example of veganism.

I think these types of situations are handled by everyone according to their own beliefs and comfort level. I don't know that anyone who has done the same as you would necessarily admit it on this, or any, vegan board. There are vegangelicals lurking on every forum and discussion of these types of situations can bring out the worst condescending and extremist comments from otherwise caring people - which tends to REALLY turn off new vegans or vegan-curious lurkers. Be assured that many vegans are happy you're not ordering chicken at a restaurant, even if you eat some rice that touched chicken. However, there are some that would kick you out of the "club" for doing so because you aren't vegan enough. We've had similar discussions/accusations on this forum and have lost some phenomenal members as a result. I wish it were not so, but some vegans will not or cannot accept anything but 100% veganism according to their very strict rules (I anticipate a slew of "this is the real definition of veganism" comments coming my way). I may be in the minority, but I think if you are taking every reasonable action to decrease the use of animal products and the suffering of animals, in your capacity, then you are doing all that you can do and can consider yourself vegan. We can all find an item in every vegan's life which is not vegan and that doesn't make them a non-vegan. But food is the easiest area to find fault. I assume that you're a new vegan and in time sharing food that has animal ingredients in it will gross you out. Don't be hard on yourself and tell the omnis to scratch off.

I don't really understand the problem here. Protein, fat and carbs are in almost every plant food so there is no way of laying off just one macronutrient - such as protein. Are you talking about laying off protein isolates? I can understand them giving you a problem since they're not a food in the traditional sense. But our digestive tracts are very adept at handling a combination of carbs/fat/protein in most forms that are natural (read, not refined).