DV

Thanks for the kind words, Liftandcode.

I think Hilary gave some great advice. I'm currently bulking at 5'10" and 156 lbs on approximately 3000 calories per day (it's taken me 8 weeks to gain 5 lbs), lifting 6 days per week with very little cardio. I'll go 3000 cals for 3 days, drop down to about 2500 for a day then up to 3200-3500 for a day - and start the cycle again. I'm definitely gaining more muscle than fat.

The centenarians in the Blue Zones do not get an overabundance of omega 6 fatty acids - much different from western societies. Omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids ARE essential. There is no money to be made in encouraging people to eat less omega 6 fatty acids and less fat overall, so it's absolutely true that there is a huge market in omega 3 fatty acids.

Creatine is synthesized by our bodies and it's found in muscle - which is the reason why you cannot find a plant source. If you are eating the necessary amino acids, minerals, vitamins to sufficiently synthesize your own creatine then supplementing may not make a difference for you.

Remember people, Death or Life Begins in the Colon!

Offense, thanks for bringing humor and intelligence to this thread!

Here we go again! My favorite part of these debates is when someone ventures off into the world of high colonics, intestinal flora and intestinal mucus. Can we just start with these? Please?

BW, I thought Obama spent a lot of time re-directing McCain to the questions/topics and explaining things so that viewers would understand. McCain went off on so many tangents and avoided so many topics, it was ridiculous. Obama had a much better grasp on the wide view of things and appeared much more intelligent.

Offense and BeforeWisdom, I love you two.

Now, there's an idea. I wasn't just referring to I'm Your Man's posts. And he needs no help in defending himself or debating. He and I have been doing it here long enough that we don't have to be "serious and professional" in our debates. I agree that I'm Your Man has a muscular body. However, he is not a bodybuilder and has given no indication that he is bodybuilding/competing. Indeed, the vast majority of people on this forum are not into bodybuilding and the answers to many questions reflect that. It is very difficult to find good answers about vegan bodybuilding nutrition on this forum because many people, who have no idea what bodybuilding is, jump into discussions about nutrition. Since this is the case, I think the name of the forum - veganbodybuilding & fitness - is a bit misleading these days. It started off as veganbodybuilding.com and then became vegan bodybuilding & fitness (but with the same address). Perhaps vegan fitness & whatever is a better description these days. There is no longer a focus on bodybuilding and there are few serious bodybuilders who remain.

Hey Hayley, We watched the debate and thought that Obama definitely slapped McCain into the ground.

This is a thread that has ventured beyond the realm of nutrition and into the world of "raw foodism and lifestyle." This is an example of why serious vegan bodybuilders are no longer posting on this forum. IMHO. This forum seriously needs to be renamed.

Whoops, my mistake. That is the correct website. I've edited my original post.

There is algae based EPA and DHA, for a couple of years now - http://www.water4.net

You are truly an inspiration. I wish there were 10 more like you on this forum!

Hey Joe, I take creatine either after my workout or first thing in the morning, just not before a workout. I'm not sure that the timing matters so much. Most of my protein comes from a mix of seitan, oats, beans, tofu and tempeh. I probably won't keep up this log much longer. I don't have much time to spend online these days, so when I do, it needs to be well spent. I've found http://www.femininebodybuilding.com to be a much more informative forum, as well as very friendly. Unfortunately, there just aren't many competitive bodybuilders here and that's where my focus is.

Thanks for the explanation Richard. It's been awhile since I read his book but that sounds like his description.

For me, the fun of working out is all in listening to my music. I get a bit upset when I'm training alone and realize that I've forgotten my IPOD. So I can understand your disappointment with the jacuzzi being out of service.

You've just proven that he does consider himself agnostic, even if he has nothing good to say about it. I see no evidence of him being a militant atheist in those reviews. Believe me, I would rather that he was a militant atheist, but he's not. His claim that he's agnostic is one of the points I remember most clearly, having read the book myself, despite the examples (some taken out of context perhaps by the reviewer) given.

There is NO proof that veganism is the way humans were meant to eat. Even the China Study has no vegans, only humans who eat little animal foods. Veganism is a fabulous choice that wealthy humans can consider, but it has not been studied in much detail in history since there have been no recent wealthy humans who could choose to eat plant foods at will (ohhh, asparagus in December and sweet potatoes in April, oh my!). I freely choose veganism even though there is no proof that humans evolved to eat vegan. But that does not make it "natural" even if it does make it an intelligent choice.

If you have read his most recent book, you realize that he considers himself an agnostic - he clearly points this out in "The God Delusion."

Just remember that you cannot compare gorillas, monkeys and chimpanzees to humans. I am SOOOOO tired of these comparisons in these types of discussions. And I'm sure that there are those out there who do not understand the anatomical/physiological differences between us who will think I'm being too dogmatic. But if some of us don't represent the more "rational" arguments for veganism, who will stand up for us in the real (ie, not forum) world? Just asking......

Since even Dawkins considers himself agnostic, I don't think his intent was to prove that god absolutely does not exist but rather to show how there is no proof that it/he/she does.

The real issue with omega 3 fatty acids is not that we need so much more of them, but that they've been replaced in our diet by an overabundance of omega 6 fatty acids. Even omnis who get most of their fat sources from farmed animals (fish, beef, eggs) are at a loss because the diets those animals are fed result in fat that has much less omega 3 fatty acids than in the past and many more omega 6 fatty acids. We do need both 3 and 6 omega fatty acids but the amounts are small and the balance of the two are very important. This topic has been discussed in great detail on this forum in the past so I'll stop here. As for the first humans being omnivores, carnivores or herbivores, I believe that we can only theorize on this. The best theory I've ever heard is that humans have a great capacity to survive on plant and animal sources. Just as vultures don't need spears to eat meat, neither did early humans if they waited around with other smaller animals after a kill. Regardless of what we consider to be a healthy diet, a hungry or starving human is fortunate to be able to adapt to numerous diets.

I assume that you are looking for an oil that gives you the different omega 3 fatty acids, such as the ALA, EPA and DHA found in fish. There is no plant oil that contains EPA and DHA as they are found in microalgae in oceans. Flax only contains the short chain ALA. Spectrum brand has a flax oil with DHA added. There are a couple of companies that sell the long chain DHA (such as http://www.veganessentials.com or http://www.foodfightgrocery.com) in supplement form. The only supplement that contains both long chain omega 3s, EPA and DHA, is found at http://www.water4.net. It is much cheaper to order direct from the company than to order from anyone else. You may see other oils out there that advertise a balanced omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acid ratio. They are a waste of your money since you get more than enough omega 6 fatty acids. If you cannot/will not take flax oil then other options are canola oil or walnut oil. Both contain more omega 6 than 3 fatty acids, however. IMO, if you have the money then supplement with the http://www.water4.net product and eat 2 tablespoons of ground flax seed per day, while decreasing your overall fat intake by avoiding processed foods and added oils. As for protein powders, I'm not a fan for unless you are using them very short term - like the few weeks before a competition. Someone else can answer that question. Oh, and welcome to the forum!