Scientists and the vegan diet

[offense74]

Ok, so it's frustrating enough to convince laymen about the health benefits of the vegan diet but have any of you tried to convince anyone who is an MD or scientist in the medicine field?

I've talked to two scientist, one MD and one dietician about the whole-food vegan diet. I've recommended "The China study" to all of them and I know that none of them have read it after my recommendation since I'm (according to them) am a laymen and therefore knows absolutely nothing about how research works.

The dieticians first question was "How natural can it be when you need to supplement with b-12?".

I have no respect for diaticians whatsoever since I can give the same shitty advice without having to study for 4 years:

1. Eat more fish. This is, according to dieticians, a solution to every problem.

2. If you have diabetes, stop eating sugar and cut down on fruit.

3. If you have heart disease stick to lean meats and low-fat milk.

4. Try to eat some veggies and beans whenever possible.

5. Switch from butter to margarine.

6. Pop pills if you have high blood pressure.

So, the next time you feel the urge to go to a dietician save the money and follow the steps above. They will probably make you almost as sick as you were before and probably as fat but atleast my advice is free, whereas the dietician will charge you for the same shitty advice.

 

The MD I talked too was actually the only one who was cool about it. He told me: "I think it's very safe and a very good diet so keep it up!"

 

Now. The two scientists. They're both nice persons but when you start talking about science they get all snooty. They both basically said two things:

"Alot of people say alot of things, you can't just trust people."

and

"I've never heard that whole food vegan diets shold be superior to meat based ones."

 

One of them works (at least to some degree) in this research field. The other one doesn't but she told me that she knows alot of people at the university hospital that do and they never mentioned it. I told her about Campbell (and who he is) and "the China study" and she agin got all snooty and told me "You know, alot of people say alot of things."

Then she told me how much money she will earn when she is a PhD that works weekends and nights. I asked her what she will do with all the money. She couldn't answere that either.

 

Why are scientist the hardest to convince with scientific research? It seems backwards.

[CollegeB]

Scientists like to confirm what they think with their data, not discover new things. I see science as a belief system just like any other religion.

[Guest]

I've talked to my cousin about it(an bone surgeon) and she thinks I'm gonna die...its just a matter of time. Despite the fact that I was always a good athlete and got even better when I went vegan it just doesn't make sense to her

[Daywalker]

she thinks I'm gonna die...its just a matter of time.

That's true, nothing to argue about it.

Just face it like a man, man!

You WILL die.

Nothing more sure than that

[rdandrew]

Don't lump all of us dietitians in the same category!! Some of us know what is going on.....

 

I understand your frustration.

[Guest]

This is true...we will all die due to our diets...unfortunately vegans die slower which may be the problem. We need to change our diets so we can die young and fit in with everyone else

[Odidnetne]

This is true...we will all die due to our diets...unfortunately vegans die slower which may be the problem. We need to change our diets so we can die young and fit in with everyone else

 

Whoa whoa whoa, you mean I *WON'T* be on an oxygen tank at 55 if I keep eating vegan? Ah F***, I knew there was something up with these lentils...

 

The answer to how natural can the diet be without b-12 is simple, and that we only need trace amounts, which we used to get when we picked up fruit off the ground and ate the small amount of dirt with it, before everything became pure and clean.

[offense74]

I told the woman researcher that I was on a constant calorie deficient diet but still get all the nutrients that I need (i.e. Eat 2 Live) and she said "That's dangerous!". I wonder where she got that from because there are no scientific evidence of that statement.

People who are supposed to be experts have just the same (or more) unsupported bs in their heads as everybody else. The only difference is that they're supposed to be experts so everyone listenes to their bs.

Don't lump all of us dietitians in the same category!! Some of us know what is going on.....

What you know, they probably didn't teach you in school.

When someone who has diabetes-2, high blood pressure and high cholesterol goes to the dietitian they SHOULD get the following advice:

1. There is a way that has like a 95% chance of curing the disease that you have put on yourself, without side effects and that is a whole-food, vegan diet and excersise.

2. If you don't want to take this approach, you can try to eat more fish and lean meats and fail miserably. But I can send you to a doctor that will ease your suffering by putting tiny nets in your arteries and give pills to ease your suffering.

[9nines]

Something, flip-side positive. Recently, I had a physical done by a large hospital. It was fairly comprehensive. On my answers to the lifestyle questionnaire, it gave me all excellent marks, except my dairy intake, which is zero. It stated that one needs three servings a day for calcium, etc. I know that will be a hard habit (recommending dairy) for medical places to break but what was positive was that it commented that dairy consumption should be met but limited because excess protein intake can hamper calcium, by dissolving it and losing it in urine.

 

So, at least the high acid level of protein (although animal proteins specifically were not mentioned) and calcium loss conclusions are making it into mainstream hospital literature.

[Guest]

I get all my b12 from not washing my hands after I go to the bathroom. I also give this b12 to my friends just to be nice and make sure they get enough of it

[joelbct]

My grandfather is an MD, brilliant guy and pretty opinionated. But his take is you should eat as wide a variety of foods as possible. I haven't had the vegan discussion with him yet. He is 80 and I don't want to upset him!

 

I met a vegan dietician recently. I don't know, most of the research referenced in the popular press does seem to say, over and over, more fruits, vegetable, and plant based food, if not advocating veganism out-right.

 

I think the meat and dairy industry would and do stifle large-scale outright calls to veganism from the scientific community-

 

-Joel

[FormicaLinoleum]

I saw this article headlined in Google News. It seems ripe for misinterpretation, as the headlines all seem to focus on "low-carb diets do not increase heart risk". If anyone were to read past the headline and read a fuller account, they would find the important part:

 

"The most protective diet, in terms of heart disease risk, was a low-carbohydrate that was also low in saturated fats and cholesterol where vegetables were the main sources of fats and protein. "The vegetable-based low-carbohydrate diet combined the best features of low-fat and low-carbohydrate eating," Halton says. Following this diet was associated with a 30 percent reduction in heart disease risk over 20 years." (bold added by me)

 

This is revolutionary to me because it actually says that vegetables can be a person's main source of protein. I mean, of course I know that, but I think the average American actually does not, judging by that fact that nearly every Veg*n has had the "where do you get your protein?" question. One summary that I read actually used the phrase "vegetable protein".

 

Unfortunately, like I said, people are probably going to read the headline and think that Atkins-style, meat-heavy diets have been vindicated, when it really seems that the research is suggesting more of a Fuhrman-style diet.

 

Here's a link to one news summary of the research, but there are articles in many news sources. Low-Carb Diet Doesn't Up Heart Risk

[escapee]

The article is very misleading, The japanese diet is very rich in carbohydrate (rice), + plenty of vege , fruit, green tea and some fish, yet they have the longest life expectancy in the world.