Anybody ever heard this (confirm or--I hope--deny with facts

[Kathryn]

Someone wrote this in response to a comment I made on another forum about the long human intestine being unsuitable for eating meat:

 

"I wanted to say that the argument concerning intestine length is not correct. The types of cells that make up the intestine is what counts in general. Humans have cell types and receptors that favor eating meat."

 

Anyone with some scientific facts to refute this (or know where this person probably got this info from?)

[pelicanAndrew]

Interesting point. I'm pretty sure intestine funciton is a pretty universal thing for all creatures who have them.

 

I could be wrong. I'll ask around the science department if i remember.

[Kathryn]

I really hope someone can come up with the scientific arguments to refute this, because the poster is a real a-hole (claiming that humans are made to eat meat, and that the conformation of our teeth is a moot argument because we evolved to use tools and don't need claws and sharp teeth).

 

But, I'm sure his/her? info is flawed, since s/he claims that plants are not better sources of carbohydrates than animal products!

[Zack]

I think in a natural state, humans are meant to eat meat because we need some vitamin b-12. However, we are NOT meant to eat the quantities that most people today do. Besides, natural or not, it's still not an ethical choice.

[willpeavy]

Humans have a body that allows us to consume either plants or animals, and a brain that allows us to decide which to eat

[CollegeB]

Cool I'm glad Zack and Will said something, I'm not the only vegan having those thoughts. I didn't know if it was okay to talk about them because they might be impure. Anyways we are omnivores. It seems we function best on plants, as reserach continues to say, but if you have to survive you can eat anything.

[Kathryn]

Humans have a body that allows us to consume either plants or animals, and a brain that allows us to decide which to eat

 

I agree with this. We are omnivores by make-up, but we are unique from other omnivores, like raccoons, who NEED to eat from both. Omnivorism in humans has benefitted our survival and evolution, since we are ABLE to eat from both plant and animal sources, so we have a much higher chance of survival than other species in crisis situations.

 

But because of our evolution, we have the intelligence (and the compassion, one would hope) to make a choice, especially in today's world.

 

 

I agree with what everyone is saying on this thread, but I really need some of our nutritionist and peeps with a science background (or just other well-read folks) to address the original statement made by the 'information from unbiased sources' dude/dudette. (yes, in addition to showing that s/he doesn't know as much as s/he claims s/he does---the carbohydrate thing---I'd really like to nail this person as an uninformed source.

 

Maybe s/he is right? But I've never heard of this before. Granted, I haven't read every book out there, but I've done a lot of reading over the last 30 years, and it seems odd that I wouldn't have come across the argument s/he makes.

[CollegeB]

Im certain meat does not have carbohydrate. I think Dr. Barnard talks about this. The human bodyneeds carbs, nutrients, and protein. meat does not provide much beyond protein. I actually have a book from the 1950's and the author gets off topic but its very interesting. He writes about what people eat and writes that the best way to stay fit is to exercise and eat mainly meat. He then adds that even though t his is good one that does this needs to take vitamins because meat does not provide much more than protein and fat.

[offense74]

I say call him/her on the BS. He/she made the statement and so, it's up to him/her to back it up. That's how science works.

[Daywalker]

I say call him/her on the BS. He/she made the statement and so, it's up to him/her to back it up. That's how science works.

Exactly, i was gonna say that, too.

 

At least s/he should name the celltype, so that you/we can research. I've never heard of that before, and think it's BS.

[fudgam]

Humans have generalized dentition, which is somewhat unique (We do not have teeth like a carnivore). We CAN eat ANYTHING.

All thats left it to make the ethical choice.

[Rawj]

http://www.jtcwd.com/vegie/plant_or_meat_eaters.html

 

"Meat Eaters

Carnivorous animals, including the lion, dog, wolf, cat, etc., have many unique characteristics which set them apart from all other members of the animal kingdom. They all possess a very simple and short digestive system -- only three times the length of their bodies. This is because flesh decays very rapidly, and the products of this decay quickly poison the bloodstream if they remain too long in the body. So a short digestive tract was evolved for rapid expulsion of putrefactive bacteria from decomposing flesh, as well as stomachs with ten times as much hydrochloric acid as non-carnivorous animals (to digest fibrous tissue and bones).

 

Meat-eating animals that hunt in the cool of the night and sleep during the day when it is hot do not need sweat glands to cool their bodies; they therefore do not perspire through their skin, but rather they sweat through their tongues. On the other hand, vegetarian animals, such as the cow, horse, zebra, deer, etc., spend much of their time in the sun gathering their food, and they freely perspire through their skin to cool their bodies. But the most significant difference between the natural meat-eaters and other animals is their teeth. Along with sharp claws, all meat-eaters, since they have to kill mainly with their teeth, possess powerful jaws and pointed, elongated, "canine" teeth to pierce tough hide and to spear and tear flesh. They do NOT have molars (flat, back teeth) which vegetarian animals need for grinding their food. Unlike grains, flesh does not need to be chewed in the mouth to predigest it; it is digested mostly in the stomach and the intestines. A cat, for example, can hardly chew at all.

 

 

Plant Eaters

Grass-and-leaf-eating animals (elephant, cow, sheep, llama, etc.) live on grass, herbs, and other plants, much of which is coarse and bulky. The digestion of this type of food starts in the mouth with the enzyme ptyalin in the saliva. these foods must be chewed well and thoroughly mixed with ptyalin in order to be broken down. For this reason, grass-and-leaf eaters have 24 special "molar" teeth and a slight side-to-side motion to grind their food, as opposed to the exclusively up-and-down motion of carnivores. They have no claws or sharp teeth; they drink by sucking water up into their mouths as opposed to lapping it up with their tongue which all meat eaters do. Since they do not eat rapidly decaying foods like the meat eaters, and since their food can take a longer time to pass through, they have much longer digestive systems -- intestines which are ten times the length of the body.

 

Interestingly, recent studies have shown that a meat diet has an extremely harmful effect on these grass-and-leaf eaters. Dr. William Collins, a scientist in the New York Maimonedes Medical Center, found that the meat-eating animals have an "almost unlimited capacity to handle saturated fats and cholesterol". If a half pound of animal fat is added daily over a long period of time to a rabbit's diet, after two month his blood vessels become caked with fat and the serious disease called atheriosclerosis develops. human digestive systems, like the rabbit's, are also not designed to digest meat, and they become diseased the more they eat it, as we will later see.

 

Fruit eaters include mainly the anthropoid apes, humanity's immediate animal ancestors. The diet of these apes consists mostly of fruit and nuts. Their skin has millions of pores for sweating, and they also have molars to grind and chew their food; their saliva is alkaline, and, like the grass-and-leaf eaters, it contains ptyalin for predigestion. Their intestines are extremely convoluted and are twelve times the length of their body, for the slow digestion of fruits and vegetables.

 

 

Humans

Human characteristics are in every way like the fruit eaters, very similar to the grass- eater, and very unlike the meat eaters.The human digestive system, tooth and jaw structure, and bodily functions are completely different from carnivorous animals. As in the case of the anthropoid ape, the human digestive system is twelve times the length of the body; our skin has millions of tiny pores to evaporate water and cool the body by sweating; we drink water by suction like all other vegetarian animals; our tooth and jaw structure is vegetarian; and our saliva is alkaline and contains ptyalin for predigestion of grains. Human beings clearly are not carnivores by physiology -- our anatomy and digestive system show that we must have evolved for millions of years living on fruits, nuts, grains, and vegetables.

 

Furthermore, it is obvious that our natural instincts are non-carnivorous. Most people have other people kill their meat for them and would be sickened if they had to do the killing themselves. Instead of eating raw meat as all flesh-eating animals do, humans boil, bake, or fry it and disguise it with all kinds of sauces and spices so that it bears no resemblance to its raw state. One scientist explains it this way: "A cat will salivate with hungry desire at the smell of a piece of raw flesh but not at all at the smell of fruit. If man could delight in pouncing upon a bird, tear its still-living limbs apart with his teeth, and suck the warm blood, one might conclude that nature provided him with meat-eating instinct. On the other hand, a bunch of luscious grapes makes his mouth water, and even in the absence of hunger he will eat fruit because it tastes so good."

 

Scientists and naturalists, including the great Charles Darwin who gave the theory of evolution, agree that early humans were fruit and vegetable eaters and that throughout history our anatomy has not changed. The great Swedish scientist von Linné states: "Man's structure, external and internal, compared with that of the other animals, shows that fruit and succulent vegetables constitute his natural food." "

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.jtcwd.com/vegie/chart.html

 

"Meat Eaters

1. Has Claws

2. No pores on skin: perspires through tongue

3. Pointed front teeth to tear flesh

4. No flat back molar teeth to grind food

5. Salivary glands in mouth (not needed to pre-digest grains & fruits)

6. Acid saliva: no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains

7. Strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest tough animal muscle.

8. Intestinal tract only 3 times body length so rapidly decaying meat can pass out of body quickly

 

 

Plant Eaters

1. No Claws

2. Perspires through pores on the skin

3. No sharp pointed front teeth

4. Flat back molar teeth to grind food

5. Well developed salivary glands, needed to pre-digest grains & fruits

6. Alkaline saliva, much ptyalin to pre-digest grains

7. Stomach acid 20 times less strong than meat-eaters

8. Intestinal tract several times body length (plant foods do not decay as quickly so can pass more slowly through the body)

 

 

 

Humans

1. No Claws

2. Perspires through pores on the skin

3. No sharp pointed front teeth

4. Flat back molar teeth to grind food

5. Well developed salivary glands, needed to pre-digest grains & fruits

6. Alkaline saliva, much ptyalin to pre-digest grains

7. Stomach acid 20 times less strong than meat-eaters

8. Intestinal tract several times body length (plant foods do not decay as quickly so can pass more slowly through the body)"

[Barb]

"It is obvious that our natural instincts are non-carnivorous. Most people have other people kill their meat for them and would be sickened if they had to do the killing themselves."

 

Good point.

[Guest]

The simple fact that the person only said cell types and receptors shows they don't know anything. In all reality our blood is little different than any other mammals other than our DNA(which in all reality is pretty close too with the exception of rodents)...for the most part our blood all does the same thing and our blood isn't really what meat does the most damage too...its our organs...since blood will move pretty much anything you feed your body and what it carries keeps your muscles and organs functioning.

[Odidnetne]

After reading that article, I thought about raw meat and how ing it was, but then I read how humans will eat fruit in the absence of hunger because it tastes so good, and now I crave grapes. There's your proof.

[Kathryn]

I say call him/her on the BS. He/she made the statement and so, it's up to him/her to back it up. That's how science works.

 

Actually, this person seems to have ignored my request to give sources for that information, and has not returned to the conversation. I'm hoping that's enough for other intelligent beings to not believe much of what s/he says! Especially after the carbohydrate boo-boo.

[Kathryn]

At least s/he should name the celltype, so that you/we can research. I've never heard of that before, and think it's BS.

Daywalker, you're a doctor, right? I'm sure YOU would have studied this in med school, if there were any validity to it.

 

I had a feeling it was just all made up from nothing, but maybe this person is getting their info from some whacky place?

[pelicanAndrew]

He's probably getting it from one of those awesomely accurate Creationism Scientists.

[Odidnetne]

He's probably getting it from one of those awesomely accurate Creationism Scientists.

 

DUH! Animals were made for humans, just like blacks were made for whites and women were made for men.

 

(I hope nobody takes offense to that, that is complete sarcasm and I don't support any of those 3)

[Kathryn]

DUH! Animals were made for humans, just like blacks were made for whites and women were made for men.

Interesting you say this. Here's a snippet from an exchange between me and the other poster (guess who posted what, LOL!):

 

 

>In my opinion animals are here for our benefit, whether to serve as pets or worker animals or to be served at the dinner table.

>Being omnivores, we as humans get the best of both worlds. Why

>anyone would want to give up meat or vegetables in favor of

>one or the other just boggles me.

 

Some people used to think that humans of races other than their own were here for their benefit. And some men used to think that women were here for their benefit.

[finbarrio]

Pretty funny how Odidnetne pretty much nailed that guy's mentality.

 

Kathryn - suffice to say you're easily winning your debate.

[Richard]

"In my opinion animals are here for our benefit, whether to serve as pets or worker animals or to be served at the dinner table."

 

That's an opinion with no basis whatsoever, and it is also incredibly selfish and has zero compassion. Just by him saying 'in my opinion' it doesn't change that 'his opinion' is selfish and cruel. It also suggests that he thinks there is a reason behind animals existing, but there hasn't been a logical explanation provided. We can only guess how or why life came about in the first place, it might never be discovered, and right now all we can do is react to what we can see around us as fairly reliable evidence IE that animals are intelligent, conscious and have emotions, so they shouldn't be exploited.

[veggymeggy]

I haven't read all the replies here, so forgive me if this is repetitive. And for credentials, I'm 2 more terms from my Bachelor's of Science in Nutrition and Food Management, with my option in dietetics.

 

Anyway, in brief, layman's terms, our bodies produce all the chemicals necessary to eat anything. (In general, there are exceptions such as lactose intolerance). Enzymes breakdown fats, carbohydrates, and proteins, and the nutrients we need are absorbed in our intestine and released into our blood or lymph systems.

 

I think it is arguable that animal products were at one time a necessary part of the human diet. The fact of the matter is that vitamin B12 is essential, and it is only available in animal products. HOWEVER, it is the nutrient need in the SMALLEST amount in the body, and can be recylced for years. Most who go vegan as adults will never experience a B12 deficiency due to extensive stores built in youth.

 

With today's technology in supplementation and fortification, animal products are no longer necessary, and the human digestive tract is equally operational without them.

[Guest]

"In my opinion animals are here for our benefit, whether to serve as pets or worker animals or to be served at the dinner table."

 

That's an opinion with no basis whatsoever, and it is also incredibly selfish and has zero compassion. Just by him saying 'in my opinion' it doesn't change that 'his opinion' is selfish and cruel. It also suggests that he thinks there is a reason behind animals existing, but there hasn't been a logical explanation provided. We can only guess how or why life came about in the first place, it might never be discovered, and right now all we can do is react to what we can see around us as fairly reliable evidence IE that animals are intelligent, conscious and have emotions, so they shouldn't be exploited.

 

I think every organism exhists to help or hurt other organisms...not the way we do it but in the sense that we all "should" benefit certain organisms...but at the same time...hinder life of others in the sense that we take food that other animals could be eating

[ronnie kray]

"i wanted to say that the argument concerning intestine length is not correct. The types of cells that make up the intestine is what counts in general. Humans have cell types and receptors that favor eating meat."

 

the fact that he cannot name these cells or give sources for this statement should tell you something. i think he is trying to distract and confuse with opinions he can't back up. how can he say the length of the intestine is not important? it is very important, along with stomach capacity, and stomach acidity.

 

"Carnivores have a capacious simple (single-chambered) stomach. The stomach volume of a carnivore represents 60-70% of the total capacity of the digestive system. Because meat is relatively easily digested, their small intestines (where absorption of food molecules takes place) are short -- about three to five or six times the body length. Since these animals average a kill only about once a week, a large stomach volume is advantageous because it allows the animals to quickly gorge themselves when eating, taking in as much meat as possible at one time which can then be digested later while resting. Additionally, the ability of the carnivore stomach to secrete hydrochloric acid is exceptional. Carnivores are able to keep their gastric pH down around 1-2 even with food present. This is necessary to facilitate protein breakdown and to kill the abundant dangerous bacteria often found in decaying flesh foods....

 

Man's stomach is single-chambered, but only moderately acidic. (Clinically, a person presenting with a gastric pH less than 4-5 when there is food in the stomach is cause for concern.) The stomach volume represents about 21-27% of the total volume of the human GI tract. The stomach serves as a mixing and storage chamber, mixing and liquefying ingested foodstuffs and regulating their entry into the small intestine. The human small intestine is long, averaging from 10 to 11 times the body length. (Our small intestine averages 22 to 30 feet in length. Human body size is measured from the top of the head to end of the spine and averages between two to three feet in length in normal-sized individuals.) "

taken from this article "The Compartive Anatomy of Eating"

 

"humans are made to eat meat, and that the conformation of our teeth is a moot argument because we evolved to use tools and don't need claws and sharp teeth".

 

"The fact is that "increased meat-eating" occurred ONLY because of tool use, and since tools, including fire, are a product of culture, not Nature, cultural practices, such as those powerful self-destructive cultural practices of today, are totally unrelated to our natural nutritional needs, which are programmed at the genetic level."

excerpt from this article: The Human Omnivore: A Mythological Beast.

 

this site has a wealth of scientifically based arguement for a vegan diet. read as much as you can, it has helped me out tremendously when debating veganism with other people. i hope it helps you out.