Thanksgiving

[veganmadre]

[ We also don't celebrate valentine's day, easter, halloween, anniversaries, birthdays.

 

Now, I must disagree on one point. I would LOVE to celebrate Halloween: the "dress up all day and have fun" aspect of Halloween, not the "distribute-unhealthy-goods-to-greedy-children-who-then-o.d.-on-sugary-crap" aspect of it, but hardly anyone at work dresses up anymore!

 

The thing that annoys me most about halloween is that so many people only allow themselves this one day of the year for personal expression. Or, our culture only allows this one day per year for personal expression. How many women flaunt their sexuality or wear a business suit? How many guys go in drag, skirsts, dresses, makeup. How many suddenly become dark and gothic.

 

Our society would just be so much cooler if people were allowed to be free, creative and expressive every day of the year. Instead we have to conform to pointless controlling dress codes and behavioral guidelines. Step over the line and you are cut off from friends, family and more devastating your source of income or employment. That's my main gripe with halloween. Halloween should be every day of the year.

 

It almost always goes for saying that Michael speaks my opinion as well. Still amazes me how compatible we are.

 

I struggle with "conformist" ideals on a regular (if not daily) basis. Getting dressed for work is difficult - are my shoes. skirt and tights "appropriate"? Is it obvious that I'm bra-less everyday? Is my "unnatural" color "normal" enough to be considered "professional"? I do my job well. I'm social, attentive, efficient, and intelligent. But I find myself becoming resentful that I have to work so hard to "fit in".

 

We drove through Oakland (college town) the weekend before halloween - we saw school girl, after maid, after school girl, after cheerleader - anything with short skirts and sex appeal. My opinion: RIGHT ON. Why is it only OK to flaunt sexuality one day of the year? Why is it that our society says woman can't bring attention to their bodies or be openly sexy/promiscuous/forward any other day? Feminists seem to think that this blatant sexuality is "male oriented" and repressive. I find the opposite - the think women are encouraged to be prudish in our society for the benefit of men. Why, what would men do if all women owned their sexuality? I think employment dress codes, bras, etc...are primarily for male benefit. Skin is a distraction...

[CollegeB]

Madre skin is a distraction and for many men also a temptation. In one of my classes we talked about feminist theory, and the teacher gave us a scenario to point out how unfair the world is. The scenario went something like: A girl dresses up very flirty, and attracts the attention of some man, she eventually is drunk, leaves the bar with him, and is subsequently raped. My teacher is a feminist and was outraged something like this would go on. What kind of a male centric world is this she wondered. One of the only 3 men in the room who actually is a counselor had worked with a girl like this. He brought to her attention how people percieve the way she dresses. So she got the idea and actually started to dress more modestly. The teacher didnt like that because it basically said women cant dress how they want. The rebuttal was this is the reality of the situation. And she can dress how she wants, it just depends on the reaction she wants to deal with. So yeah women can dress how they want, they should, but they should also be prepared to handle challenges that come their way. I say be aware of what can happen to you (everyone) learn to fight, carry a gun, put on more than underwear before you walk out the front door, dont be getting drunk around a bunch of people who you cannot trust completely. Learn behaviors to keep you out of trouble due to your choices. Don't count on the kindness, respect, and/or restraint of strangers. Society at large teaches to live for the moment, seek instant gratification etc. Most people can only judge you by what they see. I think of the work of Carol J Adams. Her thinking is that most men see women as objects, as meat. They see body parts (breast, rump, thigh), they see only pieces of meat, not the entire being. So I think that by flaunting certain aspects of the body that line of thinking is continued. And this works for both sexes. Anyone can wear tight clothing to show off their physical assets. Anyone can exercise to be fit, can clean up their appearance. I think the big mistake is saying only women are victims, only males are perpetrators. Men dont face the same discrimination women do, but men are discriminated against. Every person on the planet has prejudice (well maybe not the dali llama), and therefore everyone faces some discrimination. I think most feminists are wrong. As far as my theories book explains, feminists blame me (a white male) as the guy who runs the show and therefore makes their lives horrible, yet they dont know who I am. The feminists that see me as the bad guy are the ones that drive cars everywhere, they eat fast food, laugh at veganism, have no compassion for others. But I'm the bad guy just because of my skin and sex. I've been reading more feminist work and I am seeing that blaming me for their problems is not the focus of most feminism. I'm quite fond of libertarian feminism actually. Women can blame men for oppressing them but I think you are ultimately responsible for what you do, and you cannot control others.

 

This idea of halloween not being confined to one day in particular is intriguing. I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. But if halloween lost its novelty it wouldnt be nearly as fun... In high school i used to wear ties with t-shirts just for grins. So try that some, and work from there. Maybe dress up in a gorilla costume and go buy many lbs of bananas. You don't have to be constrained by these social mores, you let yourself be. Conform in work, but outside you can do whatever you please. Recognize you are being somewhat inauthentic at work, but you are not work, right? So why try to be yourself at work. Appreciate the contrast of your life.

[pelicanAndrew]

It's hard for women to learn said things CollegeB. It's not socially acceptable and it's not taught in schools. We can only hope that if the select few radical women start now that they'll teach younger generations and it will spread.

 

And the rape victim example may be true but is rare and the drawn conclusion is ludicrous. Men rape for power, not because a girl is scantly clad. Changing her dress will change the way she is percieved by society, not a rapist. You'd be better of making the argument that if women had sex with men more, there'd be less rape. Both are far fetched.

 

I agree with men being discrimnated against if they aren't "sexy". Screw that, i'm just as sexy if not sexier than Brad Pitt.

[michaelhobson]

You don't have to be constrained by these social mores, you let yourself be. Conform in work, but outside you can do whatever you please. Recognize you are being somewhat inauthentic at work, but you are not work, right? So why try to be yourself at work. Appreciate the contrast of your life.

 

I have to disagree with your final point B. You do "have to be constrained by these social mores" in order to maintain employment and prevent arrest. I have had enough tastes of freedom to feel the utter opression in our schools and workplaces.

 

What of free societies like Twin Oaks community in Virginia? That is a place where clothing is optional, deoderant is optional, shaving is optional, dressing in a gorilla costume and eating bananas while working is optional. And it isn't limited to personal appearance, listen to whatever music suits you while working, say any words, fart out loud, muse about the smell, scratch your nuts etc. etc. etc. We are so opressed in this society, we are not even free to be human beings.

 

Rainbow Gatherings are another place, be as wild, free and freaky as you want to be. But, people will still take the time to get to know you and respect you for who you are.

 

As for appreciating the contrast in your "life" vs. your "work life". I can't really appreciate it when I have to spend 50-70 hours working every week just to survive in this city. No worries though, we will be bowing out of this rat race for summer 2007. We need a re-charge of our minds and bodies. Maybe then we will have some energy for this crap, but probably not. We'll likely exist on the fringes of society for some time to come.

[CollegeB]

Man 70 hrs a week, yeah I can see you dont have much of a life out of work. here I go trying to be somewhat buddhist and philosophical and reality gets all up in my face!

Though I still think that with social mores, you dont have to follow them you are choosing to. You are being realistic in following them of course, but its still a choice. The way I see it you are restraining yourself, but that is because you want to be able to buy food. In no way do I see a problem with that. I guess you are not happy having to conform, neither is Madre, but you both like to eat. Its a choice between being veryhungry or getting to dress how you want all the time. I'll take my mask off for a few hours if it means getting to buy some very vanilla soymilk. As long as the system keeps producing that stuff it's got me.

[michaelhobson]

Yeah, you got us figured out there B, we love to eat. What gave it away? The $235 we dropped at Trader Joe's last night? Or that even after buying all that food, we still stopped at our favorite veg cafe for dinner on the way home!

 

 

As for 70 hours per week, only about 45-50 is actually spent at work. Then there is 1.5-2 hours per day commuting, depending on traffic. The half hour in the morning getting ready for work, doing laundry for work clothes etc. etc. We are working toward striking a much better balance over the next year.

[Aaron]

"Thanksgiving to me is really just about having turkey..."

 

Yup.

 

I usually play videogames or go for a run. I may try to go to the beach and go surfing. The beach should be empty I hope

[pelicanAndrew]

I say we make it about squash and vegan pies and baked tofu and vegan green bean casserole and heaping salads and more squash and some more vegan pies.

[veganmadre]

Yeah, you got us figured out there B, we love to eat. What gave it away? The $235 we dropped at Trader Joe's last night? Or that even after buying all that food, we still stopped at our favorite veg cafe for dinner on the way home!

 

 

What's me wanting to run around naked have to do with us spending all that money yesterday??

[veganmadre]

In all honesty, I do buy into the system much more than I'd like. My mind is constantly weighing the pros and cons of continued reliance on "the man" - refering, of course, to corporate america and not men in general. The demands of working full time in order to provide so-called "essentials" leave me drained and very receptive to "convenience". I tend to believe that if I was able to tap out of working my eight to five, I would have the time and means to be almost self-suffient. As it stands, I have obligations (i.e., a lease) to complete and then Michael and I plan to simplify our lives.

 

So, for now, I tolerate my work dress code restrictions (even changed my hair back to "brown") in exchange for employment. But, I do believe the system needs evaluated and changed. I hate that people need to conform in order to meet needs - housing/food...I don't buy the argument "if you don't like it, don't contribute". That's an ideal but not realistic on a large scale, in my opinion. It follows with the thoughts so prevalent after 911 - "love it or leave it" - what's wrong with reform??

[gymmie]

This is my first Vegan Thanksgiving but I don't have plans anyway, so I'll just make something here myself. We had a get together with some Vegans last night and it was FUN! We had a roast that was SO YUMMY! I'll have to try to make it one of these days. I need to find the collander that makes that shape though!

[willpeavy]

" I may try to go to the beach and go surfing. The beach should be empty I hope

 

Do you ever get sharks in the Oregon waters?

[Kathryn]

What's me wanting to run around naked have to do with us spending all that money yesterday??

 

What did running around naked have to do with Thanksgiving? (Unless you're proposing some kind of druidic celebration to take the place of 'turkey-massacre' day.)

[joelbct]

Ah, so I can always rely on this board to remind me I'm not by far the only one who feels this way and is frankly annoyed at the way our society and my family celebrates "Thanksgiving."

 

From the other side of the meat eating isle, I cannot comprehend how people are so flippant and blase about the mass death and suffering of other creatures to satisfy not any necessity but merely their own tastes... nor can I comprehend how I was the same way, at least until I grew up and took a look at the reality of the simple act of eating, and the tremendous effect this simple act has on the extent of suffering in this world.

 

-Joel

[Odidnetne]

I usually play videogames or go for a run.

 

My Thanksgiving tradition is that on Thanksgiving day, I start/play through and finish Star Tropics 2 for NES. So far I've only missed one year since 1996.

[JW]

Is it "tradition" for big families to have a Thanksgiving day football game in the U.S.?

My sister-in-law is having thanksgiving with her boyfriend's family and that is one of the highlights.

I know a few others who do it also.

[SeaSiren]

This is the first year my Mom decided not to host Thanksgiving due to my sister's condition.

 

Therefore I am cooking and having guests over. They are all aware it's a vegan meal, so no suprises (my home, my rules).

 

On the menu:

Tofurkey (I have been off soy, but will make an exception for a day)

Hot & Spicy Winter Squash Soup

Nut Loaf

Corn Bread Stuffing

Mashed Potatoes

Gravy

Candied Yams

Green Bean Casserole

Watergate Salad

Baked Pineapple

Cranberries

Rolls

Black Olives

Greek Olives

Dill Pickles

Sweet Pickles

Pumpkin Pie

Sweet Potato Pie

Drinks: water, tea, beer, wine, and other adult beverages.

 

I am also going to work in 2 cardio sessions

[Kathryn]

On the menu:

Tofurkey (I have been off soy, but will make an exception for a day)

Hot & Spicy Winter Squash Soup

Nut Loaf

Corn Bread Stuffing

Mashed Potatoes

Gravy

Candied Yams

Green Bean Casserole

Watergate Salad

Baked Pineapple

Cranberries

Rolls

Black Olives

Greek Olives

Dill Pickles

Sweet Pickles

Pumpkin Pie

Sweet Potato Pie

Drinks: water, tea, beer, wine, and other adult beverages.

Save a spot at the table for me!

 

What IS Watergate Salad? Are you in denial about its ingredients? Does it contain noodles that look like audio tape?

[SeaSiren]

What IS Watergate Salad? Are you in denial about its ingredients? Does it contain noodles that look like audio tape?

 

Ahhh well, I am always in denial.

 

Traditionally:

1 package (4-serving size) Pistachio Flavor Instant Pudding & Pie Filling

1 can (20 ounces) crushed pineapple in juice, undrained

1 cup miniature marshmallows

1/2 cup chopped walnuts nuts

2 cups thawed Cool Whip Topping

 

Veganized:

-Pistacio Pudding has to be made from scratch, due to the milk content in the instant versions. When making the scratch version omit the 2 cups of soy milk.

-I omit the marshmellows all together -but you can find vegan marshmellows if you want them in

 

-The whipped topping is also made from scratch since I can't get vegan whipped cream here. But I believe you can order online.

 

This was much, much easier to make years ago and it is a traditional dish in our family, so I had to make adjustments. Everyone still enjoys it, I don't care for sweet foods anymore, so won't eat it myself.

[Guest]

I'm thinking the weather is gonna ruin my plans of a 100mile ride...I'll figure something out though...then I'll hog down