b3studios Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 So I was talking to a doctor friend of mine tonight, and she was explaining to me how I'm going to need B12 injections soon because I don't eat meat. According to her, vegetarians and vegans deplete their body stores of B12 in about 5 years, and then start having health problems because of this. She, of course is a firm believer that you have to eat at least some animal products. How much of the B12 thing is factual, and how much is her preprogramed "old school" thinking and education? rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couture547 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 It's all Prapaganda imo. The animal industry wants to stare every one away from eating a plan based diet. They allways bring up B12 when it's just one of thousands of different nutriants you need. Doctors have some type of need to inject any thing that moves, so i'd take what doctors say with a grain of salt. If your concerned about it just add a supplement. I don't take any supplements i just get it from the different raw food that have a little bit. Also most people that are low in B12 or elderly people and they eat plenty of meat, so it's more of a absortion thing rather than not getting enough of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/vitaminb12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 We do need B12...everyone does. You definitely don't need injections of it though. A simple cheap pill under your tongue a few times a week does the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oselifer Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Theoretically if we were living in forests,while eating vegetables we would also eat some small livings that would be in the veges..That would be the source of b12...But in modern life we clean the vegetables with water.... So take a b12 supplement and you will be fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Theoretically if we were living in forests,while eating vegetables we would also eat some small livings that would be in the veges..That would be the source of b12... Unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viva_hate Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 If I don't take my B-multi vitamin the sides of my mouth start crack in no time. In Finland the B12 injection is not uncommon at all, I think it charges your B12 levels. I haven't tried it though, no needles near me please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offense74 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 If I don't take my B-multi vitamin the sides of my mouth start crack in no time. In Finland the B12 injection is not uncommon at all, I think it charges your B12 levels. I haven't tried it though, no needles near me please.You got to lay of the Koskenkorva. And the Lapin Kulta. The cracks will disappear in no time. Don't blame the veggies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjs Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I amazes me how generally stupid most doctors are considering the amount of education they go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Doctors are like everyone else. They are knowledgeable about the things they've studied. Unfortunately, people give them too much credit for the things they haven't studied. My husband is a doctor but no one who knows the two of us would ever go to him for nutritional advice! (But he is an absolute genius in his specialty). We live in an altered world with many "artificial" or man-made changes. Take advantage of the fact that we can take supplements to make up for the lack of certain needed vitamins in our diets. Even many cows are given vit B12 supplements because their unnatural diets are deficient. Take a B12 supplement. Some neurological damage of B12 deficiency is NOT reversible. Be smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kero Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 So I was talking to a doctor friend of mine tonight, and she was explaining to me how I'm going to need B12 injections soon because I don't eat meat. According to her, vegetarians and vegans deplete their body stores of B12 in about 5 years, and then start having health problems because of this. She, of course is a firm believer that you have to eat at least some animal products. How much of the B12 thing is factual, and how much is her preprogramed "old school" thinking and education? rick I used to be one of those people who didn´t believe in the importance of b12 supplements; I was sure it was all propaganda etc. I´ve been a vegan for about ten years now, after about seven years I started to have memory problems, one of my legs went numb and I was seriously exhausted and went into a deep depression which had to be treated with therapy. At that point I still somehow believed that vegans don´t need to supplement b12, it took about half an year for me, after my leg went numb, to realize that my symptoms were from not having enough b12 in my body. I was disappointed and angry that I was stupid enough to believe the propaganda about b12 and started taking b12 in large amounts for about four months. Half a year after that my depression had went away, I was having normal energy levels and the numbness in my foot had gone away. So please supplement b12 in your diet. And I have to say that all of this was really due to my own stupidity and maybe because I was a bit of a fanatic when I started out as a vegan; I truly believed in things like "people don´t need a lot of protein" and "vegans don´t need to supplement b12" etc. I wish that propaganda like that would not be associated with veganism in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyrLinus Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Kero, how often do you take B12 supplements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3studios Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 So I was talking to a doctor friend of mine tonight, and she was explaining to me how I'm going to need B12 injections soon because I don't eat meat. According to her, vegetarians and vegans deplete their body stores of B12 in about 5 years, and then start having health problems because of this. She, of course is a firm believer that you have to eat at least some animal products. How much of the B12 thing is factual, and how much is her preprogramed "old school" thinking and education? rick I used to be one of those people who didn´t believe in the importance of b12 supplements; I was sure it was all propaganda etc. I´ve been a vegan for about ten years now, after about seven years I started to have memory problems, one of my legs went numb and I was seriously exhausted and went into a deep depression which had to be treated with therapy. At that point I still somehow believed that vegans don´t need to supplement b12, it took about half an year for me, after my leg went numb, to realize that my symptoms were from not having enough b12 in my body. I was disappointed and angry that I was stupid enough to believe the propaganda about b12 and started taking b12 in large amounts for about four months. Half a year after that my depression had went away, I was having normal energy levels and the numbness in my foot had gone away. So please supplement b12 in your diet. And I have to say that all of this was really due to my own stupidity and maybe because I was a bit of a fanatic when I started out as a vegan; I truly believed in things like "people don´t need a lot of protein" and "vegans don´t need to supplement b12" etc. I wish that propaganda like that would not be associated with veganism in the future. Oh, don't misunderstand me. I'm not doubting that vegans need B12 supplementation. I take a daily multi-vitamin with B12 in it. The argument that my doctor friend was making was that you have to either eat meat, or get B12 injections. According to her, oral supplements don't work because they aren't bio-available. Now, my wife, who is a veterinarian and knows a thing or two about chemistry and nutrition in general thinks that this just doesn't make sense. All of the research that I've done says that a vegan can get the needed B12 from oral supplementation. My friend is extremely smart, and like another poster said their spouse is, she is good in her specialty. But sometimes I think she makes general statements, and can be quite reactionary, especially when she feels like her choices are being threatened (she eats meat, quite a bit actually). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kero Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Kero, how often do you take B12 supplements? I take deva hair, nails and skin supplement daily which has 75 mcg of b12, but it is not my main b12 supplement. My main supplement would be betolvex which has 1 mg of cyanocobalamin, I take it 3 times a week, and I always make sure I don´t take coffee or tea with it. It seems to be working. When I started taking it I took 4 tablets a day for 4 months and it seemed to have been working. I know I should have been taking blood tests, but they are not reliable, so stubborn as I am I just took betolvex on my own. Oral supplementation works just fine, in my experience, if you put the tablet under your tongue, and remember that all of it will not be absorbed. The argument that my doctor friend was making was that you have to either eat meat, or get B12 injections. According to her, oral supplements don't work because they aren't bio-available. Based on my own experiences and the things I´ve read I would say that this is not true, I did cure my deficiency with oral supplements. It might be that your friend is thinking about the fact that many people who have a b12 deficiency are lacking some inner factor that will absorb the b12. This is the case with many older people and people who have crohns or coeliac etc. English is not my first language therefore I don´t know the exact term, inner factor is a direct translation. I think your friend is thinking about the inner factor problem, since people who are lacking it have to have injections. As far as I know even they can get by with oral supplements if they put them under their tongues and don´t swallow them, but I would not rely on this if I had a inner factor problem and shots were available. I know that some doctors or actually most don´t know much about nutrition and they especially don´t know much about b12. My doctor didn´t know anything about the subject and he admitted it; and I also got to read some site about medical research through him, there were some studies there about b12 and I would say that not much is known about the subject, b12 deficiency might be very common and a big cause in memory loss, depression etc. I would really like to hear her arguments in this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I agree that B-12 supplementation is vital for veggies. That doesn't mean our diet is deficient; omnis have to supplement, too (with heart medication, Viagra, etc.) All joking aside, I read a study that stated, while many vegans were found to be deficient in four nutrients, many omnis were found to be deficient in around seven. So, I don't buy into the argument that vegan diets are deficient any more than omni diets are. Does anyone here know if there is a danger in getting too much B-12? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 To add to this thread. A blood test of mine from 2007 indicated that I was over the average for b12 levels as a vegan.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kero Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Does anyone here know if there is a danger in getting too much B-12? It causes some health problems but I can´t remember what it was. I remember one study were they stated in the conclusion that even if too much b12 causes problems it is in no way as dangerous as being deficient and they recommended supplementation based on symptoms, not tests since there are no 100% reliable tests available, or at least there wasn´t at that time. I don´t know if they have created a reliable test already, I do know that researches are trying to. edit: that study focused on the elderly, not vegans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodhiDave85 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 To add to this thread. A blood test of mine from 2007 indicated that I was over the average for b12 levels as a vegan.. I've never had a b12 blood test, and I'd like to believe my levels are good. How long have you been vegan and what foods are most important in your diet for b12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 To add to this thread. A blood test of mine from 2007 indicated that I was over the average for b12 levels as a vegan.. I've never had a b12 blood test, and I'd like to believe my levels are good. How long have you been vegan and what foods are most important in your diet for b12? Vegan since August 2006. Supplemental pretty regulary, sometimes soy/rice milk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodhiDave85 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 To add to this thread. A blood test of mine from 2007 indicated that I was over the average for b12 levels as a vegan.. I've never had a b12 blood test, and I'd like to believe my levels are good. How long have you been vegan and what foods are most important in your diet for b12? Vegan since August 2006. Supplemental pretty regulary, sometimes soy/rice milk. Which supplements do you use? I am currently using Whole Foods Sublingual B12, and really want to switch because of all the bad things im hearing about cyancobalamin (like it slows down blood cell production or something) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 You can't really switch from that because that is B12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodhiDave85 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 You can't really switch from that because that is B12 Not true...There are 4 types of b12..and more importantly cyancobalamin is not its natural state. Hydroxycobalamin is the natural state buts its $5 K more expensive a kilo, which is why drug companies settle for cyanacobalamin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Is it vegan though??? I wouldn't really call that natural state either though...especially if it needs to be extracted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodhiDave85 Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Is it vegan though??? I wouldn't really call that natural state either though...especially if it needs to be extracted. I really do not know that much about b12 besides a few videos and articles I have browsed, but I'm pretty sure the companies that produce b12 dont care too much about its quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I'm pretty sure mine is methylcobalamin or something. Most of my supplements have gelatin. I use what my dad gets... I take quite a few different supplements for various reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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