auburnoutlook Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 dear everyone-i joined this forum to educate myself on all things vegan and bodybuilding through others experiences. i find myself distracted by the hurtful things being said and spend alot of time just reading the very interesting political issues. abortion, gay marriage, and immigration are all hot topics and i believe we need to be able to openly express our feelings to reach a happy middle ground or at least some form of acceptance. and all of these subjects have to do with human rights which directly affect the rights given to animals. joe you are obviously the odd man out in some of these topics but i personally support and honestly appreciate you sharing your thoughts. it helps me understand both sides of the subject. so lets keep arguing and debating these very important issues but try to not personally offend one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneyvegan Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 When the perfect world I arises, I might fit in and I might not, we will just have to wait and see.Old homophobic bigots fit in everywhere Joe, so you'll be fine.For someone who screams tolerance, it's for sure you not. Your just a hateful bitter little person, who pretends to be someone by belittling other people. It's sad, and I feel sorry for you. I don't pretend to be anyone, I've made it abundantly and openly clear who I am.I only hate some people sweetie...I pity you, but not nearly as much as I pity your family.I look forward to the day when one of your gay relatives marries an illegal immigrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnoutlook Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 dear sydney-im gay and have been since i was born as well, and i never said you were gay by belief...i dont even really know what that means. the issue wasnt if gay was right or wrong belief or whatever...it was about prop 8 and wether or not you BELIEVE it to be the right choice. you said you would beat him up based on his beliefs about gays and all that, and isnt that why people beat up your friend in high school....over different beliefs. violence is silly."If I Go out and beat a bigot who spouts homophobic poison I am ulitmately protecting myself physically. I’m just being proactive." sydney seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAINRA Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Well ... everyone has their frustration. I understand. I agree this discussion should be about points and not name calling. But keep discussing because eventually you will get tired of fighting and you will see that no one wants to be hated. It makes you significant in a negative way. I am an ethical person so I follow a neutral stance on the most part. Have traveled worldwide I see that there are good and bad to all things. I really don't try to take sides with any one just because I want to jump on a bandwagon... I will side with the person who is more ethical. Hate on any side will not bring you happiness. I do think it is better to discuss a topic then end it. Yet it should be more on the constructive side than destructive. Honesty is valued but you must understand that it comes with consequences. As much as many of you want to hate on Vegan Joe and I disagree with his view I still value his opinion. As for SydneyVegan I do understand how Gays are the new struggling class. I do find it unfair and morally wrong as I will with any discrimination. I was a little ignorant to gays when I was younger. I Thought I was going to get hit on by gays anytime I ran into someone gay... again that was how narrow minded I was, I was probably very immature. It was comparable to thinking that every girl was out to hit on me. How dumb does that sound. I think it was just plain silly. I was not until I finally ended up doing breakdance shows at a typical night club in Madrid, Spain with my friends and we were hired by a gay manager who gave us the gigs and gave us some good loot for our breakdancing acts on stage. It gave us not only money but respect at that club. As I got to know some of the managers gay friends as well I soon go to know gays better and became more opened minded. Funny thing is as was mentioned before Spain is one of the most Catholic countries in the world and accepts Gay marriage. I think a lot has changed there and people at some level have been more accepting. I guess for me I feared what I did not know. Now I am glad I have seen the true side of things. Please no ass kicking on the board... leave that for the MMA Vegans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyrLinus Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 If I may add a few thoughts: 1. If you do not like a specific person who posts, rather than lash out go to their profile and choose "Add Foe". This puts them on ignore and you never have to see a post of theirs again. 2. Regardless of how someone else acts or posts, I do think it's important to respect all points of view. We cannot know what path they have walked to get where they are or know what path they'll continue to walk. From my own point of view, I've found that being open, respectful and educational in nature has helped others understand better where I come from -- even if they don't agree. Name calling, being demeaning, arrogant, etc. has never, IMO, worked. Robert created this site to allow vegan bodybuilders and other vegan fitness enthusiasts find a place where they could discuss, post and come together without being mocked for who they are. Our experiences are all different and our reasons for being vegan are also different but we have one common thing -- we are human. I think we need to respect the reason for the site's creation and respect each other, even if we don't agree. Namaste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beforewisdom Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 VeganJoe made a constructive decision by asking Richard to lock the toxic threads he started. Lets not undo the value of that decision by moving those conversations here. VeganJoe, if you simply do not respond this thread will die a natural death. Everybody else, that works in both directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneyvegan Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 dear sydney-im gay and have been since i was born as well, and i never said you were gay by belief...i dont even really know what that means. the issue wasnt if gay was right or wrong belief or whatever...it was about prop 8 and wether or not you BELIEVE it to be the right choice. you said you would beat him up based on his beliefs about gays and all that, and isnt that why people beat up your friend in high school....over different beliefs. violence is silly."If I Go out and beat a bigot who spouts homophobic poison I am ulitmately protecting myself physically. I’m just being proactive." sydney seriously? Ok when you referred to your wife and children in earlier posts it may have lead me to believe you're straight. I can't vote on Prop 8, as I'm in a different country. I posted concerning comments made by a person, who decided to post their homophobic beliefs. Yes Seriously.Have I ever beaten a Bigot - NoWould I beat a Bigot - Hell Yes The lovely dovey, lets all hold hands and sign Kum-bi-yah approach is obviously working.Here in Sydney homophobic violence has increased in recent times.Perhaps people will have a second thought before beating some kid, if they know people will fight back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Hey folks, Over the past week I've been in Portland, Orlando, Chicago and now Boston, so I have not been able to follow things on the forum, but I'm getting some e-mails, feedback, etc. so we'll sort things out as we always have in the past. My life is way too hectic to keep up with things but there are a couple other moderators and some good friends of mine on the forum who keep me updated on current events. Most forums (99%) are known for lots of fighting, etc. with the exception of this site. We've had some issues in the past, have removed some members in the past and others have left because they either felt offended, or because they were causing a lot of problems and realized they weren't appreciated as much and went elsewhere. Things will sort themselves out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnoutlook Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 so lets turn this particular thread into a proactive one. i feel that humans are animals. i believe that hurting animals is wrong. most vegans on this site would probably agree, even those that are vegan for nutritional reasons. like i said before all these hot issues come down to rights. dont we all have the right to not fear being tortured or hurt just like we want for "animals"? so, do yall think stopping violence among people will help stopping violence inflicted on other creatures? how can we actively stop violence and prevent it without being guilty of it? any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnoutlook Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”. Mahatma Gandhi so arent the way the animals are treated directly related to how we treat one another? isnt being vegan for ethical reasons another way of saying you are a sort of humanitarian? sydneyvegan- not to call you out but i am especially interested in your view on the matter. i hope you do not find the question offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im Your Man Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I will not reply to any questions posed to me in this thread. PS If you think it was me that raised the hair on the back of your neck, then I appologize Of course, you prefer to reply to affirmations. Talking of apologies, I apologize I said that you never been in another country, I was wrong. You've been in another country once... to make war!just another perfect example of you making accusations base on what you think you know. I've been to several foreign countries before, even yours. well then I'm sorry again. Maybe you're not like I thought. It's difficult to know you well, with your posts. I went to see your training log, it gives a better idea, but not really. If, when we ask you a question, you would answer, then we would know you better instead of having to make guesses and answering them for you because we know that you will not answer. But that's great, how did you like trips outside USA and where you've been. You've been to Finland?!?(to VeganJoe) I'm not from Finland (I'm in Canada), but I'm going there soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodybag Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Vegan Joe starts thread discussions, when it gets hot in the kitchen he asks the site admin to lock the thread. What a fuckin' COWARD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 It was a reasonable request because it was going nowhere, as many threads tend to do. We sometimes remove posts or lock threads as admins if we feel it is in the best interest for the forum. As many will recall, we do it about 3 times a year. I think we've locked 6 threads in history Richard and I know most of the threads that were locked because they were very few, about once every 8 months or so on average. We just want to keep it as peaceful as we can. We encourage discussion, but not deliberate attacks or going out of one's way to create conflict, which it seems a handful of people do from time to time. These situations come and go every year, a few people leave, get turned off, etc. and others don't really even take notice since they avoid the heavy conflict threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAINRA Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Robert is right this going nowhere and it is just going to create enemies instead of friends. Which is why I signed up to come here to talk to more Vegan peeps! next ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnoutlook Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 i was trying to turn this thread into something interesting that we could learn from but was still related to the topic ....but i guess no one is into that. maybe ill repost my questions somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaN Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 auburn outlook, I am interested in your point, but its hard to respond to because you are saying all violence is wrong.Like Ghandi did. I agree in theory.Most people agree in theory.As nice people thats all we want to see, a world without any violence. Unfortunately, it just is not possible in this world with the bad people that come here too.If it was a world full of guys like you & me, we could live like hippies and sing kum-bay-ya if we wanted.It would be great.We could braid eachothers hair & make fruit smoothies in the sun.I dont care that you are gay, even though I am straight.I have gay friends & they are cool guys.Personally I regard homophobics like vegan joe as complete losers. And there is the problem, the world is not just full of you's & me's.We also have to share with twats like vegan joe.When I was at my first school there was this boy in the year above me who bullied me for about 3 months, name calling mainly.I had never done anything to him.One day, I thought enough was enough, I saw him in the loo one day during class time, and as there was noone around, I took my chance & gave him a beating.He never even made eye contact with me again.Violence in my hands was justified, fair & effective against a mean person who deserved it.People like that only understand violence, & if we do not equip ourselves to be harder than them, we will always be persecuted.That I think, is why whoever it was threatened to beat vegan joe up! "Criminals thrive on the indulgencies of societies understanding" Same goes for bad people, homophobes, bullies & racists. They deserve to be killed, the way they would treat us if they could get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnoutlook Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 when i quoted ghandi it was not meant to say i fully agree with his views. i believe in violence when it is needed to defend yourself. in the situation you provided i believe it was understandable but not the best choice. everyday we have oppurtunities to positively affect people. i dont know your exact situation but i bet there was another way to reach him without instilling fear. you physically hurt someone. and while that is ok in my opinion in retribution to someone hitting you, i dont think its justifiable as a means to prevent future attacks. i have talked my way out of almost every fight ive encountered with homophobes. im a well built guy and probably a bit intimidating in my stature but i always spoke with a smile. there were two instances when i knew the other guy was fucking crazy and no words would convince them. one was a crazed religous fanatic and the other the brother of my ex. both totally agro and i knew talking wasnt the answer so i separated myself from the situation. the fanatic i walked away and he didnt follow and if he did i would have run....not because i couldnt fight him....im sure i could have. but that wouldnt have solved anything. and the brother well fate took care of that situation. i have to be true to myself. my argument still stands. we are all vegans and people are essentially animals so how can we be vegan and still hurt someone without the need of protection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Chris (SydneyVegan), I was going to send you a PM but decided to send it publicly so that some new members might understand that an outburst by you is an extremely rare event. I, like many other members, have stopped posting on the forum for numerous reasons and one of those reasons is that there are not more members like you. You are one of the few members who actually lift weights seriously and has the physique to show for it. Your knowledge of lifting and nutrition has always been of value to the forum, as has your usual diplomacy. I'm sorry that you've been pushed to your limit as I know how you feel. The "can't we all get along since we're vegans" sentiment is a nice one but unrealistic. And advice to ignore bullshit posts on this forum is also unrealistic for someone who cares about the integrity of the forum. Hang in there if you can because the forum REALLY needs members like yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Yeah, sometimes as the forum grows, the number of lifters decreases because other sections become more popular, etc. We're still trying to keep a respectful theme around here, but we're not being quite as sensitive as we used to be as I realize that I have little in common with many vegans, other than veganism and that we're not all going to get along or support one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I can't blame anyone for wanting to beat Joe up honestly. I wish I didn't feel that way but I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan Joe Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I can't blame anyone for wanting to beat Joe up honestly. I wish I didn't feel that way but I do.Maybe you could wish harder!http://www.sunlink.ucf.edu/presentations/fetc2004/images/thinking.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjohanx Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I can't blame anyone for wanting to beat Joe up honestly. I wish I didn't feel that way but I do.Maybe you could wish harder!http://www.sunlink.ucf.edu/presentations/fetc2004/images/thinking.jpg I thought you said you weren't going to post anymore here, but on the other hand you said that before too and obviously your word doesn't mean much. I don't think that I want to wish away my anger towards people like you. My anger and hate comes from passion and love. I know that might sound weird but it's true. I only wish that you will change. Because if you change my feelings towards you will too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegan Joe Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) Maybe you and others could just PM me, rather then have it look to visitors of this site, that most of the members of this board are just full of hate and anger, trying to slander someone they don't even know.Just a thought.Thanks,Vegan Joe Edited October 30, 2008 by Vegan Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnoutlook Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 i am a certified personal trainer(for six years now) and am in school studying nutrition. ive been a vegetarian for almost 11 years and been struggling with vegan, off an on, for two years now. ive also been traing friends and family vegan and practically carnvor since i was certified. i believe i have something to bring to the table as well. i may be a new member but i assumed that this forum was for "vegan bodybuilders". to talk and learn about both being vegan and being a bodybuilder. i posed a question to sydneyvegan out of interest in different vegan philosophies and posed a question to everyone about how you think we treat eachother translates to how we treat animals. i never meant to instigate. certainly its a question more related to being vegan than being a bodybuilder....but i also didnt post it the training section. i still believe it is an interesting topic and one i hoped would derail us from less productive conversations...i.e. anything like the threads you know im talking about. The "can't we all get along since we're vegans" sentiment is a nice one but unrealistic. dv, i find the quoted comment above to be a bit offensive since it waters down a philosophy i was opening up and sharing. it takes away from the respectful and intelligent rapport i though we were striving for. please read what i wrote and give a response that pushes us to think. share your opinion, im really interested in it. im not saying that my way is right, ever, but DaN was the only person to not point fingers and actually share smething, aside from robert who is being hospitable and unbiased as always. i thought i found a place to learn how to be a better vegan and a better bodybuilder and, as im always striving to be,a better person. maybe i was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnoutlook Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) sorry for the repeats below. i dont know how to delete them, theres no X on those ones. so i edited them to nice little dots. Edited October 31, 2008 by auburnoutlook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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