How to get enough protein

[rowan16]

I'm planning on doing a NPC figure show in April 2009. I have some fat to lose before the show and I'd like to maintain my muscle mass. After years of considering going vegan I really feel like its time to follow my heart and stop using cheese as an excuse. My issues is...I know how to diet for a show while eating meat, BUT how in the heck to I get enough protein as a vegan?

 

I've checked out the sites/bios of some vegan competitors, but they weren't much help.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!

 

Regina

[threeloaves]

These are staples in my diet:

 

Gemma Pea Protein I've been using a custom mix of: 60% Gemma/20% Rice/15% Hemp

Spirulina

 

Food

Tempeh

Quinoa

Lentils

Split Peas

Beans, black, pinto, garbanzo, etc.

Loads of veggies: spinach, kale, edamame, corn, peas, bell peppers, you get the idea

 

Fats

pepitas

sunflower seeds

flax seeds

almond butter

 

Bars

organic food bars

larabars

vega bars

 

Hopefully this helps. I don't compete, but I focus on eating lots, and eating clean.

[sophierhymes]

I second threeloaves' advice. I plan on competing in my first show next summer and I was having the same problem as you. With the help of gemma, rice and soy protein powders, I can usually squeeze in 1 gm. of protein per pound of body weight. I know other competitors get much more protein, but being vegan means you have to do things a little differently. If you want to PM me, I'd be happy to give you a sample of my diet. VeggiePrincess is a great resource as well. She has MUCH more experience with this than I do. Her banner ads are posted all over this site. Good luck with your comp and keep us posted.

[francesca]

These are staples in my diet:

 

Gemma Pea Protein I've been using a custom mix of: 60% Gemma/20% Rice/15% Hemp

Spirulina

 

Food

Tempeh

Quinoa

Lentils

Split Peas

Beans, black, pinto, garbanzo, etc.

Loads of veggies: spinach, kale, edamame, corn, peas, bell peppers, you get the idea

 

Fats

pepitas

sunflower seeds

flax seeds

almond butter

 

Bars

organic food bars

larabars

vega bars

 

Hopefully this helps. I don't compete, but I focus on eating lots, and eating clean.

 

I don't understand if gemma is a type of protein or is a brand or its a pea protein or else...

 

the mix you mentioned is already prepared or you mixed the single ingredients?

[threeloaves]

Gemma is the name that trueprotein.com gives their pea protein. True Protein allows you do make custom mixes. Check it out.

[francesca]

cool!!!

 

I hope that they ship to Italy

[Couture547]

A diet only needs 10-20 percent protein to be a healthy body building diet. IF you got 2K calories a day and 20 percent protein your looking at 50 grams of protein. Of course if your looking to bulk you might want to up to a higher calorie amount. I personally think a diet of over 25 percent protein is way overbord and the only way one is doing that is eatting lean animal products or processed protein powders.

 

Lentials for exampe are about 27 percent protein, Quinoa 15, even brown rice is 8 percent. If your getting enough calories and eatting whole foods your getting enough protein no doubt about it.

[veggieprincess]

A diet only needs 10-20 percent protein to be a healthy body building diet. IF you got 2K calories a day and 20 percent protein your looking at 50 grams of protein. Of course if your looking to bulk you might want to up to a higher calorie amount. I personally think a diet of over 25 percent protein is way overbord and the only way one is doing that is eatting lean animal products or processed protein powders.

 

Lentials for exampe are about 27 percent protein, Quinoa 15, even brown rice is 8 percent. If your getting enough calories and eatting whole foods your getting enough protein no doubt about it.

 

She would never be able to come close to placing in an NPC figure show at 50 grams of protein. She could get skinny... but never be competitive.

 

Being "healthy" and placing in a show are two entirely different things.

[Im Your Man]

A diet only needs 10-20 percent protein to be a healthy body building diet. IF you got 2K calories a day and 20 percent protein your looking at 50 grams of protein. Of course if your looking to bulk you might want to up to a higher calorie amount. I personally think a diet of over 25 percent protein is way overbord and the only way one is doing that is eatting lean animal products or processed protein powders.

 

Lentials for exampe are about 27 percent protein, Quinoa 15, even brown rice is 8 percent. If your getting enough calories and eatting whole foods your getting enough protein no doubt about it.

 

She would never be able to come close to placing in an NPC figure show at 50 grams of protein. She could get skinny... but never be competitive.

 

Being "healthy" and placing in a show are two entirely different things.

I'm not so sure about that. I too thought lots of protein were needed when I was reading bodybuilding magazines and stuff. But since many many weeks I'm eating less than 50 grams. I calculated, one day it was 20 grams (81% cho, 15% fat, 4% pro), sometimes it's about 30 grams. I'm eating only carb foods, with sometimes a bit of fats (avocado) or proteins (seeds or nuts), and my muscles of growing, with just some push-ups, sit-ups, bodyweight squats, and bicep curls with a 15 lbs, that's all I got. Now when I flex my bicep it touches the forearm, it is like 2 times bigger than 2 weeks ago. One can do whatever he or she wants, but I personally don't believe that anything unhealthy in the diet is beneficial for muscle growth or for anything else. Just a little extra proteins and extra calories is fine, for the hormonal effects, but no need to eat nearly 200 grams of proteins! Unless you want to lose all your bones.

[veggieprincess]

A diet only needs 10-20 percent protein to be a healthy body building diet. IF you got 2K calories a day and 20 percent protein your looking at 50 grams of protein. Of course if your looking to bulk you might want to up to a higher calorie amount. I personally think a diet of over 25 percent protein is way overbord and the only way one is doing that is eatting lean animal products or processed protein powders.

 

Lentials for exampe are about 27 percent protein, Quinoa 15, even brown rice is 8 percent. If your getting enough calories and eatting whole foods your getting enough protein no doubt about it.

 

She would never be able to come close to placing in an NPC figure show at 50 grams of protein. She could get skinny... but never be competitive.

 

Being "healthy" and placing in a show are two entirely different things.

I'm not so sure about that. I too thought lots of protein were needed when I was reading bodybuilding magazines and stuff. But since many many weeks I'm eating less than 50 grams. I calculated, one day it was 20 grams (81% cho, 15% fat, 4% pro), sometimes it's about 30 grams. I'm eating only carb foods, with sometimes a bit of fats (avocado) or proteins (seeds or nuts), and my muscles of growing, with just some push-ups, sit-ups, bodyweight squats, and bicep curls with a 15 lbs, that's all I got. Now when I flex my bicep it touches the forearm, it is like 2 times bigger than 2 weeks ago. One can do whatever he or she wants, but I personally don't believe that anything unhealthy in the diet is beneficial for muscle growth or for anything else. Just a little extra proteins and extra calories is fine, for the hormonal effects, but no need to eat nearly 200 grams of proteins! Unless you want to lose all your bones.

 

I never said she needed 200 grams of protein.

 

But you are steering her in the wrong direction to think SHE could place at an NPC show on 50 grams of protein. Might be fine for you.

 

I just think people should really read the actual question of the posters....

 

She is a female.

 

She is preparing for an NPC show.

 

You are doing her a disservice by telling her she'd do fine with her show, come in cut and ripped and ready to place on 50 grams of protein

 

These are NPC Figure Girls.

 

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc14/penelopepope/IMG_6507_QFBAVJMIWT.jpg

[veggieprincess]

 

ugh.

 

Yes, by all means, she should just eat fruit, nuts and throw in a couple grains and enter an NPC show and she will be right up there in the NPC line-up I posted above.

 

This is why DV only comes here about once a month now to post... or less.

 

Because when people who actually might know a little about the division or show or diet that a poster is trying to acheive and you try to offer advice, it is followed by 4 or 5 people telling her to just eat fruit or just eat raw or just throw in some quinoa and she will do just fine in her show.

 

It gets frustrating!

 

Sorry, I just get tired of being so damn politically correct all the time around here. Sometimes it just gets damn frustrating and I have to vent, so I did! I'm out...

 

(Regina... you CAN enter a show and do well as a Vegan competitor, but if you follow the advice of the above 3 posters, I am 99.999999999% sure that you will not be happy with your results after busting your ass for 12 weeks prepping for a show. You emailed me tonight about my program and contest prep... I might end up PM'ing you some free advice so you are not steered in completely the wrong direction and we don't lose you as a Vegan. I came to this board 3 years ago when I wanted to go Vegan and I was looking for Vegan protein sources and I was told to just eat grains. I didn't become Vegan for another year because of that advice because I knew from personal experience lots of grains would not get me cut. So I will see what I can do for you, but my original advice about Chuck's program still applies. I highly recommend him for your contest prep).

 

[Vegan Joe]

...

I agree with you VP.

It's only stand to reason and LOGIC that if you want the optimal muscle gaining regiment, you must have a abundance of Proteins (amino acids).

Which means that you need more than you are useing. Anything less and you will not reach your full potential. How could you think it could be any other way.

[Im Your Man]

I never said she needed 200 grams of protein.

 

But you are steering her in the wrong direction to think SHE could place at an NPC show on 50 grams of protein. Might be fine for you.

 

I just think people should really read the actual question of the posters....

 

She is a female.

 

She is preparing for an NPC show.

 

You are doing her a disservice by telling her she'd do fine with her show, come in cut and ripped and ready to place on 50 grams of protein

 

These are NPC Figure Girls.

I know, it's only my personal experience and opinion.

But imo, females need even less proteins, because of the female body constitution, lower body % is muscle, and cannot build as much muscle per day as men lifting equally.

Doesn't matter if it's to compete or not, it doesn't change the body needs or the laws of nature.

When I said "nearly 200 grams", that's what many people take.

How much proteins do you think she needs?

Concerning DV, 180 grams of proteins with a lot of it coming from seitan, which doesn't even look like something more digestible than rubber, it's fine, it's a free country.

I think 1g pro/ kg of ideal weight is enough, so for me it is around 65 gr pro per day, I'll never go higher than 70 or 80 gr, it's not even possible or easy with natural foods, so it ain't natural. As long as you see you're building muscles, it's enough. There's other things in life than the amount of proteins; without the right vitamins and minerals, the body cannot use the amino acids to build muscles properly. You need to think about the whole synergy. By adding more proteins with protein powders, tofu, seitan and other food with poor bioactivity and supplementing with synthetic vitamins added in the powders or in the form of pills, which haven't been proven to work and some studies show they're even harmful, you deprive yourself of foods rich in precious micronutrients and oligoelements which are essential for the whole machine to function in an optimal way, including for muscle building.

[Im Your Man]

...

I agree with you VP.

It's only stand to reason and LOGIC that if you want the optimal muscle gaining regiment, you must have a abundance of Proteins (amino acids).

Which means that you need more than you are useing. Anything less and you will not reach your full potential. How could you think it could be any other way.

That's because you think in terms of quantity instead of quality

[Vegan Joe]

...

I agree with you VP.

It's only stand to reason and LOGIC that if you want the optimal muscle gaining regiment, you must have a abundance of Proteins (amino acids).

Which means that you need more than you are useing. Anything less and you will not reach your full potential. How could you think it could be any other way.

That's because you think in terms of quantity instead of quality

I think you aught to quite all that spinning, because it appears that you're getting a bit dizzy.

[Duncan_Idaho]

What Couture547 said. Also, that's not confirmed but I heard that Lee Haney did 30/60/10 and didn't change that even before a contest - it worked. So don't worry about protein so much.

[beforewisdom]

 

ugh.

 

Yes, by all means, she should just eat fruit, nuts and throw in a couple grains and enter an NPC show and she will be right up there in the NPC line-up I posted above.

 

This is why DV only comes here about once a month now to post... or less.

 

 

Translation:

You don't know what you are talking about, you are talking about it to someone who knows what she is talking and has actual experience with the situation and that person is expressing frustration at your arrogance.

 

Veggieprincess. Please don't leave. I feel for where you are coming from. It isn't PC to say so, but particular types of people end up in particular communities. Saying so doesn't mean that it applies to 100% of the people nor does it mean that you don't love the community. Veganism tends to attract people who cling to ideas they take a fancy too even if it is obvious that reality is not so. This will not stop such people from arguing endlessly for their position. When I was their age I did the same thing as many of the raw foodists and alternative health types on this forum. I swallowed the alternative health marketing PR hook, line and sinker. I read the books by people with no authority that contradicted learning. I quoted conspiracy theories when a well meaning person would call me on my B.S.

 

Reality will not be denied. Sooner or later it comes to collect the bills. That happened to me, I grew up, and started learning how to learn. I think the same thing will happen with most of those types on this forum.....eventually.

 

Please don't get frustrated and leave.

[sophierhymes]

VP, thank you for your honesty on this thread. I came to this site because it's called veganBODYBUILDING.com and while I'm holding on to my vegan lifestyle, it's tough to keep up if you want to one day compete.

[Vegan Joe]

What Couture547 said. Also, that's not confirmed but I heard that Lee Haney did 30/60/10 and didn't change that even before a contest - it worked. So don't worry about protein so much.

Yeah, that's what we need more of around here.

[beforewisdom]

VP, thank you for your honesty on this thread. I came to this site because it's called veganBODYBUILDING.com and while I'm holding on to my vegan lifestyle, it's tough to keep up if you want to one day compete.

 

There is a vegan bodybuilding yahoo group. You can look at the message list. It seems to be active and talking about body building

 

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/veganbodybuilding/messages

 

HTH

[beforewisdom]

You are doing her a disservice by telling her she'd do fine with her show, come in cut and ripped and ready to place on 50 grams of protein

 

These are NPC Figure Girls.

 

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc14/penelopepope/IMG_6507_QFBAVJMIWT.jpg

 

I would bet that those women are bigger and more cut than the people who are not bodbuilders or figure competitors giving out alternative health advice.

 

Probably not everything experienced competitors believe is true, but common sense would dictate at least looking at what has been working for people who have accomplished what someone asking for advice wants to accomplish.

 

The alternative health, low protein advice will be taken more seriously when people who walk that walk start visibly winning many of those contests. No, anecdotal rumors about someone who might have done that once doesn't count as knowledge.

 

No, I am not a bodybuilder or a figure competitor ( I don't look good in a bikini ), but those are not my fitness goals and I have enough common sense to not give advice that I don't know to be true. Most of the time.

[DV]

Regina and Sophie,

 

Please feel free to PM me with any questions. I am currently training for my first competition and am entering a cutting phase. My trainer has been a NPC judge for the past 20 years and he's been a tremendous help. He's not able to help me much with the vegan aspects of protein intake but there are those out there who can - VeggiePrincess, SeaSiren's former/current coach, Dr. Joe DeMarco (if you can reach him). I haven't cut down low enough to give you advice on what works for me as yet. Do yourself a favor and do NOT listen to advice from those who have NOT competed or trained for a comp. You have to be in it to understand it.

 

Bodybuilding/figure comp preparation is no different than any other sport in that you need to have the time, dedication, knowledge and money to do it successfully. Find a local judge in your area and ask him/her for advice on who can help you to train and pose. Posing is extremely important. You also need an experienced eye to let you know your strengths and weaknesses. You may not be ready for the competition you are aiming for and you may discover that you need more work. Don't let this discourage you! Do it when you are ready to be number one.

 

As for protein intake, those of us who are actually vegan and bodybuilding have not recently been able to have a voice on this forum concerning this and many other issues. There is a saying on another forum that goes like this: "Take it to VBB!" Unfortunately, it's not meant as a compliment and it's a relatively new saying. This forum did have some actual bodybuilders posting in the past but they have been squeezed out. It would be nice if the administrators would consider changing the name of this forum and letting VBB exist for actual bodybuilders, but this has come up before and here we are.

 

I miss some of you a lot and wish you lived close by! If anyone forms an actual vegan bodybuilding forum, please contact me.

[veggieprincess]

 

ugh.

 

Yes, by all means, she should just eat fruit, nuts and throw in a couple grains and enter an NPC show and she will be right up there in the NPC line-up I posted above.

 

This is why DV only comes here about once a month now to post... or less.

 

 

Translation:

You don't know what you are talking about, you are talking about it to someone who knows what she is talking and has actual experience with the situation and that person is expressing frustration at your arrogance.

 

Veggieprincess. Please don't leave. I feel for where you are coming from. It isn't PC to say so, but particular types of people end up in particular communities. Saying so doesn't mean that it applies to 100% of the people nor does it mean that you don't love the community. Veganism tends to attract people who cling to ideas they take a fancy too even if it is obvious that reality is not so. This will not stop such people from arguing endlessly for their position. When I was their age I did the same thing as many of the raw foodists and alternative health types on this forum. I swallowed the alternative health marketing PR hook, line and sinker. I read the books by people with no authority that contradicted learning. I quoted conspiracy theories when a well meaning person would call me on my B.S.

 

Reality will not be denied. Sooner or later it comes to collect the bills. That happened to me, I grew up, and started learning how to learn. I think the same thing will happen with most of those types on this forum.....eventually.

 

Please don't get frustrated and leave.

 

I'm not gonna leave BW. I'm not in here as often cuz I have some other things going on... but it would take more than that to make me leave for good. "I'm out" just meant I had enough for the night

 

These threads happen all of the time on here, and I pretty much don't get involved because there are too many, and some people genuinely don't get a kick out of debating. I'm passionate so I get riled up... but debating the same point over and over wastes energy.

 

I got riled up because I do know about NPC, and this OP is not quite Vegan yet, or still on the fence about embarking on this lifestyle and its more important for me to have her get the right information then to be steered in the wrong direction like I was several years ago.

 

I have talked to many Vegan bodybuilders who are currently competing and none of them did it on 50 grams of protein. The ones who are actually in the arena and competing did it with the foundation of tried and true bodybuilding principles that have been shown to work for many decades. And that is not low protein. It doesen't mean taking in as much protein as the omni's... but they sure the heck didn't get there by low protein intake either. Of course, anyone can find the extremely low number of EXCEPTIONS to the rule. That's exaclty what they are... genetic exceptions of people who can build muscle and get shredded easily without following principles that most bodybuilders use.

 

I asked my trainer if he would come on here and post. He's been putting competitors on stage for nearly 10 years, but I told him he may have people arguing with him that they don't need to worry about macronutrients or protein... and he said, "Melissa... I would absolutely lose my mind and blow my brains out if people started telling me they don't need protein on my threads".... His point was that if he was going to come on here and try to help Vegans, he couldn't be bothered with that kind of nonsense. It's like DV said awhile back... on all non-Vegan Bodybuilding/Figure communities, there is no time wasted with these kinds of debates. Nobody is debating each other on whether or not they need proteins, essential fats, to keep fruit intake to a minimum, watch their starches, etc... because they are all on the same page. THAT is where the frustration comes in. Because so much time is wasted on these types of debates that people can't get past that to get to the useful information that could allow Vegan Bodybuilders and Vegan Figure competitors to be more abundant and to do well on stage and set a great example.

 

Anyways BW... thanks for the support

[beforewisdom]

I asked my trainer if he would come on here and post. He's been putting competitors on stage for nearly 10 years, but I told him he may have people arguing with him that they don't need to worry about macronutrients or protein... and he said, "Melissa... I would absolutely lose my mind and blow my brains out if people started telling me they don't need protein on my threads".... His point was that if he was going to come on here and try to help Vegans, he couldn't be bothered with that kind of nonsense.

 

Exactly, people like your trainer have better things to do then argue with people who they are trying to help, who will not listen to facts. People who know things have better things to do.

[Couture547]

A diet only needs 10-20 percent protein to be a healthy body building diet. IF you got 2K calories a day and 20 percent protein your looking at 50 grams of protein. Of course if your looking to bulk you might want to up to a higher calorie amount. I personally think a diet of over 25 percent protein is way overbord and the only way one is doing that is eatting lean animal products or processed protein powders.

 

Lentials for exampe are about 27 percent protein, Quinoa 15, even brown rice is 8 percent. If your getting enough calories and eatting whole foods your getting enough protein no doubt about it.

 

She would never be able to come close to placing in an NPC figure show at 50 grams of protein. She could get skinny... but never be competitive.

 

Being "healthy" and placing in a show are two entirely different things.

 

 

That's 50 grams if she was only eatting 2k A day which wouldn't be a good idea if your looking to bulk. I doubt any girl needs over 100 grams of protein ever unless there depleaded in carbs and have to use protein and fats as fuel. Look at that Avi Lehyani guy he's twice the size of those girls and gets around 20 percent protein. It's impossible to get more then 25 percent protein on a healthy diet. you'd have to supplement with a bunch of processed powders to get above that or animal products. IF your eatting a variety of whole foods and getting enough calories whatever that is for the person it's impossible to not get enough protein