vege

Interesting! I have sent you PM about this

Reached 80 kg point. Time to do some cardio and loose some fat? http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7857/10feb2011.jpg http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/344/dsc00010b.jpg

I didn't have those symptoms on 811, although I heard everybody has it, and they say it is "detox"... How about not doing the 811 all the way at once? Maybe you could have fruity breakfast and lunch, and then have some steamed potato, carrots, parsley root, sweet potato, etc. in the evening, along with some fats? I know a natural doctor here and she actually recommends this way of eating, at least in the beginning of a raw food journey. She says, it is good that we have some cooked food in the evening to put us to sleep. If you feel so crapy, I think you should stop. I can't give you much advice further, since I didn't have "detox" symptoms at all, when on this diet. I actually felt energized all the time and started to do sports for the first time in my life. That is when I stared to do push ups, pull ups, etc. and soon after that I was in the gym for the first time. The only thing I didn't like is that I became very thin, but I will try to do 811 again in a month or two, trying to keep my weight normal. We'll see how this will turn ut. I'll definitely post here my experience. Don't do it if you don't feel good at all. Maybe it is not the right time. I don't know what your diet looked like before 811 (any junk food in large quantities?). Some suggest fasting before going 811... But I don't think that would do you good now, since you feel hungry and depressed. Maybe give it another try in couple of months again? All best!

some raw foodists here say that sauerkraut has B12. But not the packaged one from supermarket. Most people here make their own sauerkraut, it is tradition. Basically, you empty the hearts of the unwashed cabbages, pour coarse sea salt in the holes, then you put cabbages in a barrel and pour the clean water. In one or two months you have home-made sauerkraut which supposedly has B12-producing bacteria (and also bacteria beneficial to gut flora). This is practically raw food, just a little salty. But you don't eat tons of it, just a little. What do you think about his claims about B12 in sauerkraut? BTW, I have just finished my two-months worth bottle of B12 drops. I am not sure if I feel any difference now or if I felt deficiency before taking the supplement. At least I am safe now.

Really? I enjoy eating ingredients one by one: I eat plain lettuce, then I cut pepper adn eat it, then I have tomato, etc... So, basically, no dressing needed. But, I know interesting dressing made from thinly blended soaked sunflowers seeds, lemon juice and dill. You can add some salt, but it is not according to 811... I know many 811 people just blend a tomato with something like orange, mango, dates, etc and then use it as a dressing. Are you a member of "30 bananas a day" community? Go there and you will find bunch of answers and people willing to answer your questions about 811 http://www.30bananasaday.com

Paige, I support you! I will be on the same track very soon! I have done it, and I will do it again. Just please, don't make the same mistake as I did, not to eat enough. You have to eat 3000 cal a day. Now on the beginning it may seem strange to you to eat 20 oranges or 10 bananas as one meal, but you will get use to it. I personally eat sometimes 10 bananas for breakfast, and I am not on 811 diet anymore. I simply love it! BUT, maybe you can try to eat more often. Like, eat 5 bananas now, and in 3 hours eat another 5 bananas. I hear Michael Arnstein, the 811 marathon runner, he prefers eating all day many times, each time a fruit or two, rather then eating 3 big meals. I incline to that too. I will start 811 again soon, so I am looking forward to reading this thread! PS: Leave oils out, just use whole nuts and seeds in the evening, as prescribed in the 811. And don't mess with unripe citruses, they are bomb to stomach in big quantities. You can eat orange or two when unripe, but trying to eat 20 of them is a disaster. But if you have really ripe and sweet ones (no sour taste AT ALL!), it's heaven:))))))

Thank you for this input, 2097. Maybe you are on the right track. I bought organic cold-pressed coconut oil a month ago, since I heard that some saturated fat is good for raising testosterone levels. So I ate coconut oil every day a little. I also heard it is good as skin cream, so I used it sparingly after shower to take care of my face. Result: I have had so many acne lately and I never had acne before! Now I am wondering is it because of coconut oil? BTW, I became more fat and lazy to workout.

thank you! Here is "monster" arm, todays pic http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1076/dsc00003wc.jpg

@Ruz I understand what you're talking about. I just imagine what you would say here when served fish or lamb as "vegetarian" meal. People here say, usually with frowned face : "Oh, you CAN'T eat meat?" - they always suppose that you have medical, rather then ethical reasons for not eating meat. But they soon cheer up and give you a suggestion: "But you can have some lamb, right? It's not meat!". And their last suggestion is: "OK, so you don't eat meat, they you will have to eat fish, you poor guy..." Not to talk about my mother who invites me to dinner and gives me non vegan dishes, and when I ask she says: "OK, I just put a little, little, little peace of beef in the soup, and you don't have to eat the meat, just eat the soup!"

I LOVE SPAIN! My sister lives in Barcelona, and I spent my summer there last year. There are some good stuff and some bad stuff about being vegan in Barcelona. I used to buy my organic tofu in shop called VERITAS, and I can tell you, it is A LOT cheaper then in Serbia. Next good thing is - EVERY shop, even the worse one has jars with precooked chickpeas, beans or lentils. But there are also lots of small private places where they sell only cooked legumes out of big pots (I guess "lazy" housewives use that to quickly cook their lunches, I don't blame them, it's so convenient and you certainly have better things to do in summer in Barcelona, rather then cooking). When you're in the city, you can always grab a falafel with extra hummus, but I found that not too cheap to do every day. And yes, Mercadona and other good supermarkets have very often non GMO soy milks, but I don't like them since they all tend to have some nasty additives. I liked Orxata de xufes, but no sugar added, it is already sweet enough. But it has not so much protein, only carbs. NOT GOOD THINGS: It was very hard to find almonds, pumpkin seeds and such stuff that is NOT baked and salted. Since I am a big fan of raw pumpkin seeds and nuts, I hated that. I bought some in VERITAS, but they were expensive as hell. MY GREATEST DISAPPOINTMENT: When I was in Barcelona before, I liked fruits and vegetables, they were VERY tasty. Last summer, it was total disaster. Nothing had good taste! Even the tomatoes, which are supposed to be Mediterranean specialty were bland, tasteless, terrible... I tried at supermarkets, at Arabian shops, on the marketplaces... always the same tasteless stuff. The only tomato I tasted that was nice was the one sisters friend brought from her own garden. I don't know why was it like that? I mean, I had better tomatoes even in Germany:) Melocotones, plums, even red peppers were also disastrous... Basically most of the fruit was sold unripe and hard as stone. My only escape were bananas and melons, which were great! What was interesting, my sister claimed that I am imagining things and that everything tasted pretty good to her. Then, we she came back with me in Serbia, to visit the family, she realized what was I talking about all the time: she was surprised how everything tasted better here. Although, it is harder and harder to find real produce here, too. Food industry is taking over, and everything has to be picked too early, treated with chemicals, etc. But there are still many farmers, and you can buy good fruits and vegetables from them. Sorry for the little off-topic, but that was my impression from the last summer in Barcelona, connected with food:)

@2097 this is interesting what you are saying. But how the B12 from this bacteria enters our organism? BTW, I don't shower very often these days and I spent the last summer one month having only couple of showers, just swimming in the sea... Does that count? And if we shower without soap and shampoo, what is happening in that case?

wow, Robert!

all I can say from my experience is that before becoming vegan and regular gym member, I had joint and spine problems, which I don't have now. I couldn't do a single lunge without feeling pain in my knee, and now I do them and enjoy doing them. I think you don't have to worry about this.

@2097 I don't know... I was just thinking a loud. We can't know exactly what is our genuine diet, since it has changed so much, there were so many influences... Maybe if you were fed insects as a baby you would love their taste, don't know. BTW, 811 diet suggests we shouldn't eat excito-toxins, such as garlic or onions, since we can't "make a meal out of that" and since we are only thought to like those tastes, but they are not naturally appealing... And I can telll you, as a child, nobody told me I should eat tons of onion, but I begged my mother to peal me an onion, and I would hold it in my hand and eat it as an apple! I don't know what Dr. Graham would say about that! My point is, we can only guess what "ideal" diet is. Some things are clear though - we should eat predominantly plant food. As raw as we can.

@2097 Yes, 811 gets little pricey sometimes. I decided to be 90% 811 from May to November each year, when we have more domestic fruit in markets. But when I say I follow 811, I mean lots of fruit and as much nuts as I desire. I don't eat much nuts anyway, and I never count percentages. Maybe I'm not following 811 percentages precisely, but who cares, as long as I feel great:) If I lived in tropics, where all beautiful fruit is available, this would be my diet 100%. What I think is best diet for human is not totally vegan, SORRY: i think people are designed to eat fruits, vegetables, INSECTS and very rarely - EGGS. I think our disgust to insects has cultural reasons, Americans and Europeans may not like insects, but main population of the world consider them very delicious food. Frugivoire monkeys occasionally eat insects, too. I also think that occasional consumption of raw eggs is also natural for humans, even if it is not vegan (sorry folks). Insects and eggs I think is the missing B12 brick in vegan diet. BUT, since I find insects (at least the idea of eating them) disgusting, and I don't want to eat eggs from mistreated chickens, I stay vegan and supplement B12. And I replace carbohydrates from fruit (i should be eating all the time, as human, in my opinion) with carbohydrates from grains and legumes.

well, it's half your recipe It was great idea to make tofu from pepitas

Update: Punpkin seed meatballs were great! I just baked them in the oven, and then tossed them in basic tomato-basil-garlic-olive oil sauce. http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/9622/cufte1.jpg

@ VeganEssentials you're right. Maybe it was too irresponsible from us to advise not taking medication. Frankly, I don't have an idea how it looks like to be depressed more than couple of hours or to think about taking your own life, it is a state of mind unimaginable to me... So, my suggestion was stupid, I guess. Sorry

I agree. Please, take a look. I got this video on email from my friend today, and now I think maybe I can share it with you

Thanks a lot, Vegimator! Idea about pepitas tofu is really great. Where did you hear about it? I can't find anything similar on the internet... Tommorow I'm making "meat-balls" in the same way, and I'm going to bake them in the oven. Then I will toss them in tomato sauce and serve with spaghetti God help me

vegetarian hotdog, vegetarian bacon, margarine, sugary sweets, and soy that is not organic tempeh is good! it si not processed food as we know it. It is fermented whole soy beans. Just look for the organic one. Too bad that itis sold in plastic, previously pasteurized. Non-pasteurizes tempeh is said to have vitamin B12

OK, today I finally decided to try to make pepitas tofu, using Vegimator's recipe. I forgot to ask if I should strain my pepitas milk before cooking it, so I decided not to strain it. So, I cooked it for 5 minutes and it did actally curdle. Then I put the curdled mass in strainer and pressed it. I didn't like the fact that the water under the strainer was white, because I guess white is the sign of proteins, so i just mixed everything again together (strained water and the crdled mass from the strainer). My kitchen was already in a mess, so I decide to make it even messier I chopped some onions and fried it a little on coconut oil. Then I put that onion in the mass I got from pepitas. I put also some finely chopped garlic, cumin, pepper, salt, sweet paprika and thyme. I also put tender rolled oats, just enough to make the whole thing dry enough to make burgers. Then I fried the burgers in a non-stick pan for 15 minutes, on very low flame. Result: I made all kinds of veggie burgers, from lentils, beans, chickpeas, etc. But pepitas burgers are the best! It tastes really nice. The problem is greenish colour. For me it is not a problem, since I don't care for the looks of the food I eat, but I guess for better presentation, it would help to put some more paprika, or some finely grated beet-root, to make it red and more meaty. I will make this again, very soon. SO, Vegimator: Do you strain pepitas milk before cooking it and making tofu? And do you soak pepitas before making a milk? Thanks Here are my pepitas burgers.http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1636/pepitasburger.jpg

interesting! I was just thinking about going back to 811 diet. I miss that.

thank you guys @MillionDollarVeggie: nothing was cooking at the moment, but I use that thing to make tarts and shortbreads. I cook sometimes and give cooking classes for money, you can see my meals here: http://www.zdravirecepti.com/zdravi_recepti/VEGAN_%26_MAKROBIOTICKA_JELA.html

@ VeganEssentials I also respect what you say. I know that lack of money can be a problem, too -especially if person stays in the same consumerist matrix. Lots of poor and angry people out there. Same for the rich ones - people would expect that rich people are happy, but many of them are not, they always want something else, or more then they already have... I don't say money itself makes you unhappy, money is just the tool of the consumerist society. I occasionally make some (relatively) big money buy selling my artworks, and I do enjoy spending it (or let's be honest, paying my debts), but it never takes all of me. I just spend it as fast as I can, and get back to the modest life I had before. I never have motivation to put all of myself in one activity (even in making art) in order to make more and more money. I think time is too precious to be wasted working. Creativity is other thing, I don't consider it working, it is pleasure and passion. But you can't be creative in todays companies. Maybe there are few out there where you can, but generally, todays jobs are boring. Yes, you can find temporary "creativity" and "joy of working" in competitiveness, but it is not the genuine creativity. This doesn't make people happy. Make yourself look better then others, be the best. I think compassion and modesty makes you happy. I myself don't think that people are wicked by their nature, i think that all people are good and kind in their core, but the society makes them bad. I don't think anarchy would bring raping, murders, etc. I think it will give freedom to people to be who they really are, god's children (I'm an anarchist who belive in God , that is why i love Tolstoy's ideas so much). @I'm Your Man I agree. Lets not forget they sterilize people with vaccines, too. I wonder why they mead up swine flue and such stuff